alyusuph
Topic Author
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Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:42 am

This Instagram page is an excellent summary of Evy air travel is no longer a memorable means of traveling. The days where marketing departments touted air travel as a prestigious means of traveling are almost over, I think.

https://www.instagram.com/passengershaming/?hl=en
I am not an Airbus or Boeing fan, just an aircraft fan
 
bennett123
Posts: 8852
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:54 am

Perhaps people should behave properly.
 
Heinkel
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:21 am

Flying in Y today is nothing else than sailing in steerage in the old days of ocean liners. What you pay is what you get.

If you pay steerage, you get steerage and the matching fellow travellers.

I'm always surprised about people, who really can afford to fly in J or better but they fly Y, because "it is good enough for a few hours". Later they complain about the bad experience.

If you book a one-star hotel, don't expect 5-star service and sophisticated people around you.
Last edited by Heinkel on Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:22 am

alyusuph wrote:
The days where marketing departments touted air travel as a prestigious means of traveling are almost over, I think.


Not almost over, they are over. In fact, they were already over years ago. Today there's nothing prestigious about air travel, it's common. Air travel is affordable for everybody.

It is known for a fact that people with low incomes aren't always as well-behaved as people with high incomes. That was the case when air travel was still expensive and prestigious and it is still the case. Only difference is that back then you wouldn't see such people on an airplane, they couldn't afford that. The only people that flew were the people with high incomes. Nowadays people with low incomes can also afford to fly and are therefor seen on planes. And as said, they aren't always as well-behaved as the people with high incomes. If you still expect everybody on a plane to be as well-behaved as it was in the old days, you're living in a dream world. That obviously isn't the case anymore.

Of course there's a simple solution, just book business or first class. That's where the people with high incomes travel and they're usually well-behaved. Of course if you travel in economy, you can expect your fellow passengers to be a bit more rough. After all, these are the folks with lower incomes.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:36 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
alyusuph wrote:
The days where marketing departments touted air travel as a prestigious means of traveling are almost over, I think.


Not almost over, they are over. In fact, they were already over years ago. Today there's nothing prestigious about air travel, it's common. Air travel is affordable for everybody.

It is known for a fact that people with low incomes aren't always as well-behaved as people with high incomes. That was the case when air travel was still expensive and prestigious and it is still the case. Only difference is that back then you wouldn't see such people on an airplane, they couldn't afford that. The only people that flew were the people with high incomes. Nowadays people with low incomes can also afford to fly and are therefor seen on planes. And as said, they aren't always as well-behaved as the people with high incomes. If you still expect everybody on a plane to be as well-behaved as it was in the old days, you're living in a dream world. That obviously isn't the case anymore.

Of course there's a simple solution, just book business or first class. That's where the people with high incomes travel and they're usually well-behaved. Of course if you travel in economy, you can expect your fellow passengers to be a bit more rough. After all, these are the folks with lower incomes.


Trash travels in all classes. Business class pax often behave in a more entitled manner and often plied with comp. alcohol which can make them just as bad. Remember the infamous pooping on the beverage cart guy was in Business....
 
Redd
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:56 am

Pudelhund wrote:
amount of money back in your imagined “golden age”. It is crazy to me how many people on her whine about the degradation of air travel w


I don't think you understand, not one iota, of what made the golden age the golden age. It was class, not product. Something often mixed up these days.
 
rigo
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:03 am

Airlines have forgotten two simple words: Service. Industry. If they can't treat their clients with respect, courtesy and focus on quality of service, they simply shouldn't stay in business. Those FAs who permanently whine about passengers have no business having a job in a customer facing role.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:28 am

Pudelhund wrote:
It is crazy to me how many people on her whine about the degradation of air travel when they now have the option to pay under $100 air fare regularly or simply pay more for a luxury experience and get a lie-flat bed or something.

^Thissssss!!! :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:



PatrickZ80 wrote:
It is known for a fact that people with low incomes aren't always as well-behaved as people with high incomes..

I'd love to see you substantiate this "known fact".... because I'm someone who works with the extremely-wealthy every day, and know for an ACTUAL fact (in addition to the anecdote of personal experience) that there's no correlation whatsoever between income and amicable behavior.

Ridiculous.


rigo wrote:
Airlines have forgotten two simple words: Service. Industry.

Um, you seem to have misspelled "transportation" in that first word. It's: Transportation Industry.
Their service is to move you from A to B in one piece, and preferably on schedule.

What you perceive as "service," is a decisively secondary feature, that different airlines of different models cater to with different priority-- if at all... and you'll find that the differing sectors of the market are, by their spending behavior (not their words/complaints/whining), quite content with that.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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scbriml
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:41 am

Redd wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
It was class, not product. Something often mixed up these days.


Define class? Something is not 'classy' simply because only the social elite can afford it.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
axiom
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:42 am

I avoided commenting on that absurdly racist AZ blackface thread, only to find one where mocking “poor” people and calling the working masses trashy seems to be par. Class Sunday.
 
uta999
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:47 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
It is crazy to me how many people on her whine about the degradation of air travel when they now have the option to pay under $100 air fare regularly or simply pay more for a luxury experience and get a lie-flat bed or something.

^Thissssss!!! :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:



PatrickZ80 wrote:
It is known for a fact that people with low incomes aren't always as well-behaved as people with high incomes..

I'd love to see you substantiate this "known fact".... because I'm someone who works with the extremely-wealthy every day, and know for an ACTUAL fact (in addition to the anecdote of personal experience) that there's no correlation whatsoever between income and amicable behaviour.

Ridiculous.


Actually the reality is, class can affect how brash, loud, embarrassing, unashamed, rude, over-confident and entitled people tend to become. Especially in the UK and while their travelling abroad. Some also have little self-respect or respect for authority / culture. That said, new money attracts the same class of people. You only have to look at the complete mess of most first and business class cabins upon landing to see it is in fact everywhere, regardless of wealth.
Your computer just got better
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:48 am

rigo wrote:
Airlines have forgotten two simple words: Service. Industry. If they can't treat their clients with respect, courtesy and focus on quality of service, they simply shouldn't stay in business. Those FAs who permanently whine about passengers have no business having a job in a customer facing role.


Not true. Look at Ryanair for example, their level of service is nearly zero yet they're one of the largest airlines in Europe. People that fly Ryanair don't count on respect, coutesy and focus on quality of service, they count on the lowest price instead and that's what they get. That's the reason they fly Ryanair and that's the reason Ryanair is so popular.

Of course there are plenty of complaints about Ryanair when it comes to quality of service, but what would you expect? Service costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. If Ryanair would want to deliver service, they'd have to raise their fares and they don't want that. It's also not what the majority of their customers expect from them.

Of course there are airlines where passengers expect to be treated with respect, courtesy and focus on quality of service. Naturally, those airlines are more expensive but that's what their customers expect from them. What the customers expect from an airline is different for every airline, and it's up to the airline to meet whatever expectations their customers have. Of course it's up to the customers not to have false expectations.
 
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cpd
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:57 am

Heinkel wrote:
Flying in Y today is nothing else than sailing in steerage in the old days of ocean liners. What you pay is what you get.

If you pay steerage, you get steerage and the matching fellow travellers.

I'm always surprised about people, who really can afford to fly in J or better but they fly Y, because "it is good enough for a few hours". Later they complain about the bad experience.

If you book a one-star hotel, don't expect 5-star service and sophisticated people around you.


Flying in business isn't always a guarantee of good manners as some of the business class folk are real slobs too, totally lacking in manners and courtesy.
 
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andrefranca
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:06 am

For someone who was well educated, I used to think that these people were not to the "standards" but then I reached my 30's and ..... life is so boring, let's have fun and enjoy silly things sometimes... just my 2 cents...
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
AIRT0M
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:01 pm

rigo wrote:
Airlines have forgotten two simple words: Service. Industry. If they can't treat their clients with respect, courtesy and focus on quality of service, they simply shouldn't stay in business. Those FAs who permanently whine about passengers have no business having a job in a customer facing role.


People want cheap tickets but complain about service. There is a limit, what airlines can offer, if you pay a tenner for a ticket. Many passengers think, they have the right to be rude and demanding, only because they paid for a ticket. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there, who should not work in the service industry, but the majority is trying hard to satisfy the needs of a customer.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:18 pm

I recently flew to Paris in business. One of the most obnoxious passengers I have ever seen in umpteen hundred thousand miles sat in the seat in front and across the aisle from me. He was drunk, loud, and continually calling for the FA's attention, often for nothing. Proves that paying more does not always equate to any level of "class". If only Jacqueline Bisset was there to slap him. It would have been so nice.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
jetwet1
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:19 pm

Heinkel wrote:

I'm always surprised about people, who really can afford to fly in J or better but they fly Y, because "it is good enough for a few hours". Later they complain about the bad experience.



That actually brings up what may be a separate topic. For example, my brother in law who pulls down a 7 figure income, per week, is heading to Australia with his wife to celebrate his 40th birthday, staying at the best hotels, eating at the best restaurants etc, but flying down there in Y.

He just doesn't perceive the value of the higher classes of travel. As a birthday present the wife and I moved them up to first, which he will see as a waste, but there is a segment of the population that views air travel as a means to get from point A to point B, that's it.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 206
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:46 pm

Some of the worst behavior and offensive clothing I’ve seen has been in the AA Admirals Club and premium cabins. Low class knows no class.
 
Redd
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:50 pm

scbriml wrote:
Redd wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
It was class, not product. Something often mixed up these days.


Define class? Something is not 'classy' simply because only the social elite can afford it.


People from all financial classes who flew treated it as a special occasion, dressed up and were on their best behaviour. People have class, or they don't. It has little to do with money, I'm sure I don't have to explain that to you.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:57 pm

I am quite sure there were plenty of pax in all classes of service in the past who were disgusting in their behavior but we didn't have social media and everyone with a digital camera in their phone to catch them and spread it around. Best is for your and any persons traveling with you to not be a jerk yourselves.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:26 pm

Decent airlines provide a decent experience in Y class. Luxuries not paid for nor required. Airlines cannot survive without those large number of people flying Y.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
mxaxai
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:49 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Of course there are airlines where passengers expect to be treated with respect, courtesy and focus on quality of service.

Respect and courtesy don't cost a single cent. Neither does focusing on service quality, even if the provided services are few.
FWIW, treating your fellow passengers and the crew with respect is equally free of charge.

But perhaps people only know that their ticket was the cheapest possible if they are treated like trash, and accordingly feel empowered to treat others that way.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:03 pm

EvanWSFO wrote:
I recently flew to Paris in business. One of the most obnoxious passengers I have ever seen in umpteen hundred thousand miles sat in the seat in front and across the aisle from me. He was drunk, loud, and continually calling for the FA's attention, often for nothing. Proves that paying more does not always equate to any level of "class". If only Jacqueline Bisset was there to slap him. It would have been so nice.


Oh for gods sakes, this is the third or fourth person to use the low percentage example to allegedly disprove the rule. YES, F/J pax CAN be rude, arrogant or obnoxious. Yes, ONE anecdotal experience by you can seem to be a rule. But I’d like to see some numbers on issues of Y class incidents versus F/J. Interesting discussion, but going off into the weeds with poor data doesn’t lead to informed conclusions.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:05 pm

mxaxai wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Of course there are airlines where passengers expect to be treated with respect, courtesy and focus on quality of service.

Respect and courtesy don't cost a single cent. Neither does focusing on service quality, even if the provided services are few.
FWIW, treating your fellow passengers and the crew with respect is equally free of charge.

But perhaps people only know that their ticket was the cheapest possible if they are treated like trash, and accordingly feel empowered to treat others that way.


Perhaps this “golden age“ of your travel had an element of previous generations tendency to be taught into actually act more polite? I seem to remember that society was a whole lot more polite when I was a kid. People these days don’t seem to be taught politeness. Just look at the Internet. Just look at this website. How much rudeness do you see on a daily basis?
 
77H
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:10 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
alyusuph wrote:
The days where marketing departments touted air travel as a prestigious means of traveling are almost over, I think.


Not almost over, they are over. In fact, they were already over years ago. Today there's nothing prestigious about air travel, it's common. Air travel is affordable for everybody.

It is known for a fact that people with low incomes aren't always as well-behaved as people with high incomes. That was the case when air travel was still expensive and prestigious and it is still the case. Only difference is that back then you wouldn't see such people on an airplane, they couldn't afford that. The only people that flew were the people with high incomes. Nowadays people with low incomes can also afford to fly and are therefor seen on planes. And as said, they aren't always as well-behaved as the people with high incomes. If you still expect everybody on a plane to be as well-behaved as it was in the old days, you're living in a dream world. That obviously isn't the case anymore.

Of course there's a simple solution, just book business or first class. That's where the people with high incomes travel and they're usually well-behaved. Of course if you travel in economy, you can expect your fellow passengers to be a bit more rough. After all, these are the folks with lower incomes.


I’d be careful correlating behavior with income even when prefaced with “aren’t always”. Bad behavior doesn’t discriminate and while the bad behaviors may come in different forms, I see just as much coming from people in suits as I do from people with holes in their clothing.

In many ways, I find bad behavior from people who appear to have higher incomes to be more egregious even if often more subtle.

77H
 
twicearound
Posts: 132
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:17 pm

rigo wrote:
Airlines have forgotten two simple words: Service. Industry. If they can't treat their clients with respect, courtesy and focus on quality of service, they simply shouldn't stay in business. Those FAs who permanently whine about passengers have no business having a job in a customer facing role.



Incorrect. Transportation industry my friend. Is there a customer service aspect? of course. There is a customer service aspect when one goes to see the dentist, but they're in the business of teeth. Not kissing your behind. And the same goes for those FA's you're lampooning, they put up with waaayyy more than you'll ever comprehend. Those are safety professionals first. Not your cocktail waitress. Think of it from their perspective. They are ready at a moment's notice to perform CPR on you, put out a fire that your cell phone started, and defend the flight deck from a rogue passenger that could attack them while providing you all your "service"(all recent events). Forgive them for not wanting to be your punching bag because you're not happy you're in a middle seat.
 
DarthLobster
Posts: 338
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:30 pm

Maybe if humans behaved like humans they would be treated like humans. Doing stupid crap in public warrants the negative spotlight, regardless of how much you paid to be there.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:34 pm

Redd wrote:
Pudelhund wrote:
amount of money back in your imagined “golden age”. It is crazy to me how many people on her whine about the degradation of air travel w


I don't think you understand, not one iota, of what made the golden age the golden age. It was class, not product. Something often mixed up these days.


Yes civility and being on ones best behavior, and commonly reveling in the glory of air travel. I agree with you.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
Reddevil556
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:49 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Some of the worst behavior and offensive clothing I’ve seen has been in the AA Admirals Club and premium cabins. Low class knows no class.


Exactly, I have had my fair share of run ins with trust fund babies that behave like pure garbage. I deal with people on Lake Minnetonka on a regular basis. For those that don’t know about that lake, it’s “the” place for the elite, celebrities, and pro athletes in Minnesota. Add wealth, ego, and alcohol....you end up with the exact same behavior...but simply presented in nicer wrapping.
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
Heinkel
Posts: 221
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:05 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Heinkel wrote:

I'm always surprised about people, who really can afford to fly in J or better but they fly Y, because "it is good enough for a few hours". Later they complain about the bad experience.



That actually brings up what may be a separate topic. For example, my brother in law who pulls down a 7 figure income, per week, is heading to Australia with his wife to celebrate his 40th birthday, staying at the best hotels, eating at the best restaurants etc, but flying down there in Y.

He just doesn't perceive the value of the higher classes of travel. As a birthday present the wife and I moved them up to first, which he will see as a waste, but there is a segment of the population that views air travel as a means to get from point A to point B, that's it.


That's why I've paid SIngapore Airlines J DUS-SIN-SYD for my wife and me. Full fare self paid J but worth every €-cent.
 
bennett123
Posts: 8852
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Re: Passenger shaming

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:18 pm

Respect works both ways.

Yes I expect staff to treat me with respect. Equally, I have no justification for not treating them with respect.

I have had no real issues. Now and again a response is a little terse. But everyone has off days.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Passenger shaming

Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:43 am

AirFiero wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I recently flew to Paris in business. One of the most obnoxious passengers I have ever seen in umpteen hundred thousand miles sat in the seat in front and across the aisle from me. He was drunk, loud, and continually calling for the FA's attention, often for nothing. Proves that paying more does not always equate to any level of "class". If only Jacqueline Bisset was there to slap him. It would have been so nice.


Oh for gods sakes, this is the third or fourth person to use the low percentage example to allegedly disprove the rule. YES, F/J pax CAN be rude, arrogant or obnoxious. Yes, ONE anecdotal experience by you can seem to be a rule. But I’d like to see some numbers on issues of Y class incidents versus F/J. Interesting discussion, but going off into the weeds with poor data doesn’t lead to informed conclusions.


I'm sure it happens more than you want to believe. I would say airlines coddle their front of the plane pax more because they want their premium dollars, therefore the tolerance level for disruptive behavior is not the same for those who sit in the cheap seats. My comment isn't anecdotal because it's not my first experience, but you are going to argue regardless.
I have been on this site 15 years. A unrecoverable email account led me to starting over. Those of you who call me a rookie, you may stop ok?
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Passenger shaming

Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:11 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I recently flew to Paris in business. One of the most obnoxious passengers I have ever seen in umpteen hundred thousand miles sat in the seat in front and across the aisle from me. He was drunk, loud, and continually calling for the FA's attention, often for nothing. Proves that paying more does not always equate to any level of "class". If only Jacqueline Bisset was there to slap him. It would have been so nice.


Oh for gods sakes, this is the third or fourth person to use the low percentage example to allegedly disprove the rule. YES, F/J pax CAN be rude, arrogant or obnoxious. Yes, ONE anecdotal experience by you can seem to be a rule. But I’d like to see some numbers on issues of Y class incidents versus F/J. Interesting discussion, but going off into the weeds with poor data doesn’t lead to informed conclusions.


I'm sure it happens more than you want to believe. I would say airlines coddle their front of the plane pax more because they want their premium dollars, therefore the tolerance level for disruptive behavior is not the same for those who sit in the cheap seats. My comment isn't anecdotal because it's not my first experience, but you are going to argue regardless.


outstanding point about the coddling and heightened tolerance.
also not to be overlooked is the reality that some "events" in Y simply wouldn't happen in J with them same people; less stressed pax with 4x the personal space and as much more service attention time from FA's. I'm hard pressed to see a "lower quality human" in Y, particularly accounting for the 8x numbers in Y.

If anything, I think you'd find putting "poor people" in F/J would result in a friendlier, more appreciative cabin, putting F/J into Y would result in a worse outcome!
For folks to just blantanly correlate wealth with "manners" is disturbing.

All that being said, I'll say I've never flown Ryanair to a party destination (or similar), so perhaps there's a world of ULCC travel that better support the above hypothesis, but I'm tempted to think it as rather localized, culturally speaking.

Thought experiment: I would not be surprised if Air India crew (and a few other carriers) suggested that their Y pax were less problematic than their premiums.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1264
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Re: Passenger shaming

Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:02 am

EvanWSFO wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
EvanWSFO wrote:
I recently flew to Paris in business. One of the most obnoxious passengers I have ever seen in umpteen hundred thousand miles sat in the seat in front and across the aisle from me. He was drunk, loud, and continually calling for the FA's attention, often for nothing. Proves that paying more does not always equate to any level of "class". If only Jacqueline Bisset was there to slap him. It would have been so nice.


Oh for gods sakes, this is the third or fourth person to use the low percentage example to allegedly disprove the rule. YES, F/J pax CAN be rude, arrogant or obnoxious. Yes, ONE anecdotal experience by you can seem to be a rule. But I’d like to see some numbers on issues of Y class incidents versus F/J. Interesting discussion, but going off into the weeds with poor data doesn’t lead to informed conclusions.


I'm sure it happens more than you want to believe. I would say airlines coddle their front of the plane pax more because they want their premium dollars, therefore the tolerance level for disruptive behavior is not the same for those who sit in the cheap seats. My comment isn't anecdotal because it's not my first experience, but you are going to argue regardless.


If you are going to decide what I will argue, then I will let you argue both sides yourself. Won’t spend the time.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Passenger shaming

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:34 am

DarthLobster wrote:
Maybe if humans behaved like humans they would be treated like humans. Doing stupid crap in public warrants the negative spotlight, regardless of how much you paid to be there.


Agreed. Act like a human, get treated as a human. Act like something else, well...
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