Cointrin330
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UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:58 pm

Anyone have any insights into how United's two newest, seasonal nonstop routes (new destinations that is) in Europe are performing and what are everyone's thoughts on further adds for 2020?

In 2018, United launched EWR-KEF and EWR-OPO. Curious as to what else might be added in 2020. Malaga (AGP), Nice (NCE), Pisa (PSA), Budapest (BUD) all come to mind.
 
SCQ83
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:08 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
In 2018, United launched EWR-KEF and EWR-OPO. Curious as to what else might be added in 2020. Malaga (AGP), Nice (NCE), Pisa (PSA), Budapest (BUD) all come to mind.


EWR-SVQ, already discussed

viewtopic.php?t=1423561

In France, LYS or MRS would be nice. NCE has already two carriers (Delta and La Compagnie).
 
9w748capt
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:15 pm

Also curious how NAP is doing. If EWR-NAP does well, I wouldn't be shocked if AA added PHL-NAP. Sure sounds like PHL-BLQ won't be back, so NAP would be a good addition.
 
ualcsr
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:00 pm

Wasn't SVQ just a rumor? I know it would just be a pipe dream but Spain-wise, BIO (Bilbao) would really be fantastic and not sure there's any transatlantic service to any city nearby.

LYS -- a very beautiful, overlooked city (or maybe just overshadowed by Paris) with a good financial sector. I wonder if LYS is hurt by its relative closeness to GVA.
 
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intotheair
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:17 pm

ualcsr wrote:
LYS -- a very beautiful, overlooked city (or maybe just overshadowed by Paris) with a good financial sector. I wonder if LYS is hurt by its relative closeness to GVA.


Lyon is a bigger city than Geneva is. GVA is is certainly busier and has more transatlantic nonstops than LYS, but there aren't that many more options (17mn passengers vs. 11mn). You certainly could take a flight out of GVA from Lyon, but more people prefer CDG. Both take about two hours by train, but the TGV goes all the way from Part Dieu into CDG. The train to Geneva runs slower, and you'd have to transfer to the tram to get to GVA. Plus, it's hard to beat all the options out of CDG.

I would love to see UA try secondary France. I don't think UA ever has. If it were to ever happen, I bet it would be a seasonal to NCE. Yes, there's already competition with DL, but there would probably be more than enough tourist traffic for UA to do okay. LYS or MRS would certainly be interesting, though I guess at least AC is at both already.
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usdcaguy
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, PeUNrformance

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:41 pm

ualcsr wrote:
Wasn't SVQ just a rumor? I know it would just be a pipe dream but Spain-wise, BIO (Bilbao) would really be fantastic and not sure there's any transatlantic service to any city nearby.

LYS -- a very beautiful, overlooked city (or maybe just overshadowed by Paris) with a good financial sector. I wonder if LYS is hurt by its relative closeness to GVA.


DL tried JFK-LYS on a 757 a number of years ago. JFK offered only a handful of domestic connections at the time, and the schedule was always a little off. UA with its EWR hub may be able to provide more connections, but most people flying to/from LYS will be a member of either Flying Blue or SkyMiles. That said, seasonal service (JUN-SEP) into EWR might be something UA could try, though they should not expect a lot of premium traffic on the route, as others have stated.
 
avek00
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:39 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
what are everyone's thoughts on further adds for 2020?


Beyond EWR-SVQ, I doubt EWR will much TATL expansion via new flights for Summer 2020. With UA continuing to beef up IAD domestic flying and connectivity, I expect that by next summer UA will seek to add TATL flights from IAD to some cities served only from EWR, with the net effect of increasing EWR's capacity and yields by shifting connections over IAD.

Seasonal additions like IAD-VCE/PRG/ATH/ARN would fit nicely into UA's network, with an added upside of increased operational flexibility (e.g., can better optimize timings and eqp with 2 flights to play with vs. 1).
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dcajet
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:44 pm

ualcsr wrote:
Wasn't SVQ just a rumor? I know it would just be a pipe dream but Spain-wise, BIO (Bilbao) would really be fantastic and not sure there's any transatlantic service to any city nearby.

LYS -- a very beautiful, overlooked city (or maybe just overshadowed by Paris) with a good financial sector. I wonder if LYS is hurt by its relative closeness to GVA.


I don't think Sevilla has officially been announced by UA, has it?
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:08 am

dcajet wrote:
ualcsr wrote:
Wasn't SVQ just a rumor? I know it would just be a pipe dream but Spain-wise, BIO (Bilbao) would really be fantastic and not sure there's any transatlantic service to any city nearby.

LYS -- a very beautiful, overlooked city (or maybe just overshadowed by Paris) with a good financial sector. I wonder if LYS is hurt by its relative closeness to GVA.


I don't think Sevilla has officially been announced by UA, has it?


hasn't been anything from UA about SVQ.




I'd say for 2020, EWR-DBV would probably take the list, especially if the tourism team in DBV is already on record saying they are talking to other carriers. I also wouldn't be surprised if IAH-CDG came as a seasonal, its hard to believe that it couldn't work now. But would take any France city!

I would actually love to see a seasonal EWR-LUX with a 752.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, PeUNrformance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:23 am

usdcaguy wrote:
ualcsr wrote:
Wasn't SVQ just a rumor? I know it would just be a pipe dream but Spain-wise, BIO (Bilbao) would really be fantastic and not sure there's any transatlantic service to any city nearby.

LYS -- a very beautiful, overlooked city (or maybe just overshadowed by Paris) with a good financial sector. I wonder if LYS is hurt by its relative closeness to GVA.


DL tried JFK-LYS on a 757 a number of years ago. JFK offered only a handful of domestic connections at the time, and the schedule was always a little off. UA with its EWR hub may be able to provide more connections, but most people flying to/from LYS will be a member of either Flying Blue or SkyMiles. That said, seasonal service (JUN-SEP) into EWR might be something UA could try, though they should not expect a lot of premium traffic on the route, as others have stated.


Yes, DL tried it and it didn't work. American Airlines also flew JFK-LYS very briefly, in 1987, on a 767-200ER (LYS was among the first three or four TATL routes AA added to Europe from JFK, which included FRA, ORY, and ZRH. France is very Paris centric when it comes to aviation and you can take a TGV from CDG to Lyon and be there in 2 hours. I don't think anyone will be adding any LYS service any time soon.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:24 am

CALMSP wrote:
dcajet wrote:
ualcsr wrote:
Wasn't SVQ just a rumor? I know it would just be a pipe dream but Spain-wise, BIO (Bilbao) would really be fantastic and not sure there's any transatlantic service to any city nearby.

LYS -- a very beautiful, overlooked city (or maybe just overshadowed by Paris) with a good financial sector. I wonder if LYS is hurt by its relative closeness to GVA.


I don't think Sevilla has officially been announced by UA, has it?


hasn't been anything from UA about SVQ.




I'd say for 2020, EWR-DBV would probably take the list, especially if the tourism team in DBV is already on record saying they are talking to other carriers. I also wouldn't be surprised if IAH-CDG came as a seasonal, its hard to believe that it couldn't work now. But would take any France city!

I would actually love to see a seasonal EWR-LUX with a 752.


EWR-LUX would be interesting, but have to think the market just isn't there. LUXAIR tried it in 1997 or 1998, with a leased 767-300ER. A different time for sure, but it didn't work.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:26 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
In 2018, United launched EWR-KEF and EWR-OPO. Curious as to what else might be added in 2020. Malaga (AGP), Nice (NCE), Pisa (PSA), Budapest (BUD) all come to mind.


EWR-SVQ, already discussed

viewtopic.php?t=1423561

In France, LYS or MRS would be nice. NCE has already two carriers (Delta and La Compagnie).


NCE isn't daily on La Compagnie, and the airline has a high rate of cancellations and delays, apparently. UA could attempt it daily, and drive them off the EWR route.
 
ual763
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:35 am

Would love to see them come back to OSL.... From ORD
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BoeingGuy
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:26 am

ualcsr wrote:
Wasn't SVQ just a rumor? I know it would just be a pipe dream but Spain-wise, BIO (Bilbao) would really be fantastic and not sure there's any transatlantic service to any city nearby.

LYS -- a very beautiful, overlooked city (or maybe just overshadowed by Paris) with a good financial sector. I wonder if LYS is hurt by its relative closeness to GVA.


I agree. I was in LYS a few years ago and it was much more beautiful and interesting that I was expecting. I agree it’s underrated. Not sure if that would translate to a profitable flight though. Maybe AA can try PHL-LYS. That’s the kind of route the NMA will be for also.
 
CALMSP
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:30 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
dcajet wrote:

I don't think Sevilla has officially been announced by UA, has it?


hasn't been anything from UA about SVQ.




I'd say for 2020, EWR-DBV would probably take the list, especially if the tourism team in DBV is already on record saying they are talking to other carriers. I also wouldn't be surprised if IAH-CDG came as a seasonal, its hard to believe that it couldn't work now. But would take any France city!

I would actually love to see a seasonal EWR-LUX with a 752.


EWR-LUX would be interesting, but have to think the market just isn't there. LUXAIR tried it in 1997 or 1998, with a leased 767-300ER. A different time for sure, but it didn't work.



yeah, anything larger than a 757, not sure it would work, but the 752, with only 15 in J and 150 in coach could possibly work. Who knows, but certainly would be an interesting thing!
 
N649DL
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:54 am

ual763 wrote:
Would love to see them come back to OSL.... From ORD


I'd be more down with ORD-ARN on UA since AA operated it for years on a 762ER / 763ER. Especially since UA's EWR-ARN is now seasonal on a 757.
 
tpaewr
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:40 am

N649DL wrote:
ual763 wrote:
Would love to see them come back to OSL.... From ORD


I'd be more down with ORD-ARN on UA since AA operated it for years on a 762ER / 763ER. Especially since UA's EWR-ARN is now seasonal on a 757.



You guys do realize that ORD will NEVER see even seasonal service to a European city that isn’t already year round from EWR?
 
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JakubH
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:27 am

FWIW, fares on EWR-PRG are relatively high and planes consistently 80%+ full, including up front. Not sure about yields though. I hope UA or AA will consider a year-round service to Prague soon!
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less.
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ual763
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:37 pm

tpaewr wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ual763 wrote:
Would love to see them come back to OSL.... From ORD


I'd be more down with ORD-ARN on UA since AA operated it for years on a 762ER / 763ER. Especially since UA's EWR-ARN is now seasonal on a 757.



You guys do realize that ORD will NEVER see even seasonal service to a European city that isn’t already year round from EWR?


Well considering Chicago has the largest populations of Norwegians (and also Swedes I think) outside of Oslo and Stockholm respectively, the market is there. Not to mention, there is no direct flight to Oslo from Chicago on any airline yet. New York has flights on SAS & Norwegian to Oslo. Chicago has nothing. The market is there, and Airlines follow the money.
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bhxalex
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:56 pm

ual763 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:
N649DL wrote:

I'd be more down with ORD-ARN on UA since AA operated it for years on a 762ER / 763ER. Especially since UA's EWR-ARN is now seasonal on a 757.



You guys do realize that ORD will NEVER see even seasonal service to a European city that isn’t already year round from EWR?


Well considering Chicago has the largest populations of Norwegians (and also Swedes I think) outside of Oslo and Stockholm respectively, the market is there. Not to mention, there is no direct flight to Oslo from Chicago on any airline yet. New York has flights on SAS & Norwegian to Oslo. Chicago has nothing. The market is there, and Airlines follow the money.


'Airlines follow the money' - exactly why this route doesn't exist at the moment.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:03 pm

Airlines following the money doesn't demand that route networks be static. UA today looks a lot different from UA+CO of 1981.
 
ual763
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:06 pm

bhxalex wrote:
ual763 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:


You guys do realize that ORD will NEVER see even seasonal service to a European city that isn’t already year round from EWR?


Well considering Chicago has the largest populations of Norwegians (and also Swedes I think) outside of Oslo and Stockholm respectively, the market is there. Not to mention, there is no direct flight to Oslo from Chicago on any airline yet. New York has flights on SAS & Norwegian to Oslo. Chicago has nothing. The market is there, and Airlines follow the money.


'Airlines follow the money' - exactly why this route doesn't exist at the moment.


No, it doesn’t exist because T1 at ORD is currently filled to capacity. Any additions, mean cuts somewhere else. Once ORD21 is completed, expect some wild things from ORD. Not to mention, the addition of new airframes each year. This will inevitably free up some 763s and 752s for new service.
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SCQ83
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:17 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
NCE isn't daily on La Compagnie, and the airline has a high rate of cancellations and delays, apparently. UA could attempt it daily, and drive them off the EWR route.


I have the impression that "in your face posh" destinations like AGP (Marbella) or NCE (Monaco, Cannes) are a bit "wore off". Those target a specific crowd. Not sure AGP or NCE need more TATL flights. DL is not even year-round.

That is why there is this trend in new TATL destinations like Dubrovnik (Croatia/Montenegro), Naples (Costiera Amalfitana), Athens (Greek Islands) or Seville that are growing very fast. Those destinations can be equally expensive (if not more) than the Marbella or Cannes of the world but are more "millennial".

That is why I think something like Lyon/Marseilles or even Marrakech would be more in this line of new potential destinations.
 
COPolynesianPub
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:28 pm

I would be very happy if EWR CGN would return, even if only seasonally.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:29 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
NCE isn't daily on La Compagnie, and the airline has a high rate of cancellations and delays, apparently. UA could attempt it daily, and drive them off the EWR route.


I have the impression that "in your face posh" destinations like AGP (Marbella) or NCE (Monaco, Cannes) are a bit "wore off". Those target a specific crowd. Not sure AGP or NCE need more TATL flights. DL is not even year-round.

That is why there is this trend in new TATL destinations like Dubrovnik (Croatia/Montenegro), Naples (Costiera Amalfitana), Athens (Greek Islands) or Seville that are growing very fast. Those destinations can be equally expensive (if not more) than the Marbella or Cannes of the world but are more "millennial".

That is why I think something like Lyon/Marseilles or even Marrakech would be more in this line of new potential destinations.


A valid point, though airlines are also chasing big spenders, and if those spenders demand flights to places like AGP and NCE, then that's where they will go. Demand is way up for Greece as the country slowly emerges from its economic and financial crisis, and the country depends heavily on tourism. Naples is, as you say, a logical gateway to the Amalfi Coast. I think the verdict may still be out on DBV. Yes, Croatia is popular, but a lot of the traffic is served by cruise ships, originating from other ports. DBV could also be a fad, like KEF and eventually tamper down somewhat.
 
SCQ83
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:18 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
A valid point, though airlines are also chasing big spenders, and if those spenders demand flights to places like AGP and NCE, then that's where they will go. Demand is way up for Greece as the country slowly emerges from its economic and financial crisis, and the country depends heavily on tourism. Naples is, as you say, a logical gateway to the Amalfi Coast. I think the verdict may still be out on DBV. Yes, Croatia is popular, but a lot of the traffic is served by cruise ships, originating from other ports. DBV could also be a fad, like KEF and eventually tamper down somewhat.


But it is not like there is a shortage of 1,000 euro-a night hotels in the Croatian Riviera, the Amalfi Coast or Santorini, and those Dior summer boutiques in Capri, Mykonos or Ibiza are there for a reason. Those places also attract "big spenders" although they are not as many as Costa del Sol or Côte d'Azur. I also have the impression those places can attract a younger rich kids of Instagram demographic than AGP/NCE and so easier to stimulate with non-stop flights.
 
N649DL
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:28 pm

ual763 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:
N649DL wrote:

I'd be more down with ORD-ARN on UA since AA operated it for years on a 762ER / 763ER. Especially since UA's EWR-ARN is now seasonal on a 757.



You guys do realize that ORD will NEVER see even seasonal service to a European city that isn’t already year round from EWR?


Well considering Chicago has the largest populations of Norwegians (and also Swedes I think) outside of Oslo and Stockholm respectively, the market is there. Not to mention, there is no direct flight to Oslo from Chicago on any airline yet. New York has flights on SAS & Norwegian to Oslo. Chicago has nothing. The market is there, and Airlines follow the money.


IIRC, SAS flies to ORD do they not?

I think the highest population of Norwegians in the US would definitely be Minneapolis. NW tried MSP-OSL in the 1980s and that failed but I think it was on a 747.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:27 pm

27 Replies and not a single one answers the poster's question concerning the performance of these routes.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:39 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
27 Replies and not a single one answers the poster's question concerning the performance of these routes.


Those that know can’t speak and those who speak don’t know.
Religion is the root of evil...
 
ual763
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:06 pm

N649DL wrote:
ual763 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:


You guys do realize that ORD will NEVER see even seasonal service to a European city that isn’t already year round from EWR?


Well considering Chicago has the largest populations of Norwegians (and also Swedes I think) outside of Oslo and Stockholm respectively, the market is there. Not to mention, there is no direct flight to Oslo from Chicago on any airline yet. New York has flights on SAS & Norwegian to Oslo. Chicago has nothing. The market is there, and Airlines follow the money.


IIRC, SAS flies to ORD do they not?

I think the highest population of Norwegians in the US would definitely be Minneapolis. NW tried MSP-OSL in the 1980s and that failed but I think it was on a 747.


SAS doesn’t fly to Oslo from ORD. They do go to Copenhagen and Stockholm. Minneapolis has a higher percentage, but Chicago has a higher quantity. But, the Midwest as a whole has a ton of them. Particularly Minnesota and Wisconsin, where my family settled. Yeah, NWA used a 747 and IIRC occasionally a DC-10. Both were way too large for the flight. And back in the 80s, Norway still wasn’t a hot tourist spot. And a lot of the country wasn’t developed at the time as Oil was only found not that long prior. Norway is completely different now that it is developed. Tourism is booming up north, along with business.
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LIPZ
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:27 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
27 Replies and not a single one answers the poster's question concerning the performance of these routes.

I don't know if it can be actually classified as a hint.
Anyway when first announced EWR-NAP was supposed to run from 22MAY through 04OCT, then about 3 months ago UA decided to extend it until 25OCT.
 
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JakubH
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:05 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Anyone have any insights into how United's two newest, seasonal nonstop routes (new destinations that is) in Europe are performing and what are everyone's thoughts on further adds for 2020?

In 2018, United launched EWR-KEF and EWR-OPO. Curious as to what else might be added in 2020. Malaga (AGP), Nice (NCE), Pisa (PSA), Budapest (BUD) all come to mind.

Both EWR-PRG and EWR-NAP are again in booking systems starting early-June 2020, both on 767. Similarly, PHL-PRG and JFK-PRG on AA and DL, respectively, restart again the same week, on same equipment. JFK-AGP is in the system on DL only (757), JFK-NCE on DL only as well (A330) and PSA has no service scheduled. BUD is on LOT only (JFK, 787). So no changes as far as I can tell, but could still be announced later...
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less.
C. S. Lewis
 
N649DL
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Re: UA EWR-NAP and EWR-PRG, Performance

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:13 pm

ual763 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ual763 wrote:

Well considering Chicago has the largest populations of Norwegians (and also Swedes I think) outside of Oslo and Stockholm respectively, the market is there. Not to mention, there is no direct flight to Oslo from Chicago on any airline yet. New York has flights on SAS & Norwegian to Oslo. Chicago has nothing. The market is there, and Airlines follow the money.


IIRC, SAS flies to ORD do they not?

I think the highest population of Norwegians in the US would definitely be Minneapolis. NW tried MSP-OSL in the 1980s and that failed but I think it was on a 747.


SAS doesn’t fly to Oslo from ORD. They do go to Copenhagen and Stockholm. Minneapolis has a higher percentage, but Chicago has a higher quantity. But, the Midwest as a whole has a ton of them. Particularly Minnesota and Wisconsin, where my family settled. Yeah, NWA used a 747 and IIRC occasionally a DC-10. Both were way too large for the flight. And back in the 80s, Norway still wasn’t a hot tourist spot. And a lot of the country wasn’t developed at the time as Oil was only found not that long prior. Norway is completely different now that it is developed. Tourism is booming up north, along with business.


I meant that SAS in general serves ORD. They're kind of a rare find in the US. For years their NYC operations were in JFK but they were moved to EWR in the Early 1990s. And SAS also flew SEA-CPH for years as well.

NWA actually tried Northern Europe and Scandinavia a bunch of times from JFK and BOS as well in the 1980s and IIRC, moved cities back and fourth between the 2 stations. MSP-OSL was a bit of it's own thing.

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