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Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:43 am
by UA857
Why is Delta the only Major US Carrier that doesn’t fly the 737 MAX?

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:45 am
by TTailedTiger
They had already placed a huge A220, A321CEO, and A321NEO order. They don't need the 737 Max.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:14 am
by Francoflier
Premonition?
:scratchchin:

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:14 am
by UA857
Did Delta make the right decision not to order the MAX?

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:20 am
by Francoflier
Hindsight would suggest that, yes, they did.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:38 am
by Spacepope
UA857 wrote:
Why is Delta the only Major US Carrier that doesn’t fly the 737 MAX?


If you wanna get technical, all US carriers don’t fly the MAX.

Their last 737-900 is either just delivered or coming online soon. The A321s are continuing to get delivered, as well as the C-series and a few used 738s. Look for more of this in the next few years as well as extension of the life of the early Airbus and NG fleets.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:42 am
by JohnAudiR18
I mean, Delta are the biggest Airbus fanbois in the USA, i’m low key surprised some of their customers are not like “if it’s not Airbus, i’m taking the bus”.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:16 am
by seabosdca
The answer to every question of this sort, at least about major airlines in western countries, is "because its analysis said whatever aircraft the airline actually ordered would be more profitable."

Why was that true in this case? Probably mostly because of some combination of the price, the A321neo's superior payload range, and its lower fuel burn at long range.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:20 am
by MrBren
It can't fly? :white:

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:21 am
by RRTrent
Boeing and DL never had a great relationship and DL were traditionally a Douglas customer. They've had big Boeing orders in the past (see recently completed 737 order) but these days Boeing don't offer anything can't be matched in some degree by Airbus. Boeing's antics with BBD over the C-Series cemented DL's position as an "Airbus first" customer. I say Airbus first as I wont they they wont order Boeing again, but they only will if Airbus cant or wont compete for the order. The recently delivered 739 could be the last new delivery to DL from Boeing for quite a while.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:27 am
by TTailedTiger
RRTrent wrote:
Boeing and DL never had a great relationship and DL were traditionally a Douglas customer. They've had big Boeing orders in the past (see recently completed 737 order) but these days Boeing don't offer anything can't be matched in some degree by Airbus. Boeing's antics with BBD over the C-Series cemented DL's position as an "Airbus first" customer. I say Airbus first as I wont they they wont order Boeing again, but they only will if Airbus cant or wont compete for the order. The recently delivered 739 could be the last new delivery to DL from Boeing for quite a while.

I also believe there were issues with Boeing putting all its beans into the 737NG programme resulting in DL no't getting what they wanted in terms of after sales support for the 717, which was inherited by Boeing and really an unwanted stepchild from the Douglas merger.


Agreed with everything except the 717. Delta got them from WN/FL. I don't think they had much in expectations beyond basic support since the 717 had been out of production for quite some time before DL ever got their hands on them.

But I agree that it will likely be a very long time before DL orders any new Boeings. The only thing I can think of is if the A330neo misses the mark in terms of performance and economics and DL takes a look at the 787 or NMA.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:28 am
by ikolkyo
I wouldn’t be shocked to see a MAX 8 order down the road.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:32 am
by RRTrent
TTailedTiger wrote:

Agreed with everything except the 717. Delta got them from WN/FL. I don't think they had much in expectations beyond basic support since the 717 had been out of production for quite some time before DL ever got their hands on them.


I knew there was something hazy in my memory about the 717 bit. Edited now.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:40 am
by NW747-400
PW gave DL a deal to be an authorized MRO provider for the GTF, which also happens to power the A220.

CFM, from what I understand, did not offer a similar deal for the LEAP which likely pushed the order to Airbus.

DL has been very aggressive with expanding their portfolio of revenue opportunities. RR also inked a deal for DL to provide some level of support on the Trent platform as well, which may have played a role in the A359/A339 combination order.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:47 am
by Lootess
RRTrent wrote:
Boeing and DL never had a great relationship and DL were traditionally a Douglas customer. They've had big Boeing orders in the past (see recently completed 737 order) but these days Boeing don't offer anything can't be matched in some degree by Airbus. Boeing's antics with BBD over the C-Series cemented DL's position as an "Airbus first" customer. I say Airbus first as I wont they they wont order Boeing again, but they only will if Airbus cant or wont compete for the order. The recently delivered 739 could be the last new delivery to DL from Boeing for quite a while.


Ed is on-record saying he wouldn't mind being a launch 797 or NMA customer. Of course he could just be saying that so they would produce it.

Richard Anderson is long gone, and he was always against being a Boeing launch customer, yet had no problem posturing for the 330neo and being the first in-line like a kid in the Airbus candy store. Almost interesting to think had Ed been at the helm, it's possible the NWA 787 order would be on the property now. But that order turned into incentives for the 739 anyway.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:50 am
by gatibosgru
I'm fairly sure we'll see the MAX flying in DL colors eventually.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:47 am
by TurboJet707
gatibosgru wrote:
I'm fairly sure we'll see the MAX flying in DL colors eventually.


To justify introducing a new type in the fleet, there would need to be at least a few missions in Delta's network where the 737MAX would work (far) better than any A220/A320-family counterpart. In other words, what can a MAX do for DL that an A22X/A32X can't?

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:00 am
by TTailedTiger
TurboJet707 wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I'm fairly sure we'll see the MAX flying in DL colors eventually.


To justify introducing a new type in the fleet, there would need to be at least a few missions in Delta's network where the 737MAX would work (far) better than any A220/A320-family counterpart. In other words, what can a MAX do for DL that an A22X/A32X can't?


Some have said that the 737 has better economics on shorter flights. Now if that would be enough difference to justify adding it to the fleet, I have no idea. Perhaps the 737-10 on ATL-Florida and other airports in the southeast.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:39 am
by Dutchy
UA857 wrote:
Why is Delta the only Major US Carrier that doesn’t fly the 737 MAX?


Why not ask why some airlines didn't order the A32X series? The gentlemen's agreement is over you know.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:42 am
by MrHMSH
DL's order for A321neos says that they wanted something larger, and in this segment the A321neo is a better product overall, so not too surprising that an airline inclined to order Airbuses nowadays would choose the better option.

Replacement of the 737-800s will be interesting, but I do see the order going to Airbus.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:03 am
by keesje
It would be interesting if Delta asks Boeing & GE/CFM if they can get 50 additional 900ER's from next year.

Opportunistically, to replace old A320s, 738s, MD88s, MD90s, 75s, 76s in the mix, growth.

:arrow: Keep Airbus honest, support Boeing cash flow.

Image
https://www.businesstraveller.com/news/ ... 737-900er/

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:11 am
by Babyshark
Boeing ticked RA off. Several times. One time was over some hardball antics Boeing played over a 73 simulator.

But when RA said Boeing was a ship without a rudder I think that was the end of the road for years to come.

The 797 stuff from EB is probably just trying to keep Airbus honest.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:14 am
by jghealey
They're going to need something to eventually replace the 100 or so older 737s that they have in their fleet, as well as their old A319/320s... though I personally doubt this order will go to Boeing and certainly not for the 737. They already have a sizeable number of A321ceo/neos on order but I guess they could order the 737's replacement. It would certainly make sense to further expand the A321neo fleet.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:18 am
by Babyshark
jghealey wrote:
They're going to need something to eventually replace the 100 or so older 737s that they have in their fleet, as well as their old A319/320s... though I personally doubt this order will go to Boeing and certainly not for the 737. They already have a sizeable number of A321ceo/neos on order but I guess they could order the 737's replacement. It would certainly make sense to further expand the A321neo fleet.


I think delta thought they'd see what they could squeeze out of airbus to firm up the 100 neo options but nowadays i don't think you could squeeze Airbus. but after the IAG order I might be wrong.

The older 320s will stay for at least 4 or 5 years.

This airline is in love with the 321. I think we took 6 of them last month and I think #93 comes next week. Atlanta is packed with them in constant motion 24 hours a day running west coast stuff.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:34 am
by Luftymatt
I'm not sure of the reasons, perhaps fleet commonality with the airbus narrow body fleet played a part? Whatever the reason, I'll bet their glad they didn't order the MAX.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:41 am
by tropical
Interesting article on Simple Flying today not on why DL didn't order the MAX, but on the happy consequences (at the present time at least) of them not doing so:

https://simpleflying.com/delta-737-max-benefit/

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:06 pm
by tlecam
In the recent DL orders of the A321, did DL propose the MAX in the RFP? I’m trying to remember the timing of the Delta RFPs.

I think that DL will order the NMA if Boeing ever actually launches it, and I think that they’ll use it to expand on their “non-core hub” growth strategy (I don’t have a better name for it) - I wouldn’t be surprised to see it used to backfill for the 763ERs but also to launch more TATL routes from secondary “hubs” or focus cities (like BOS, RDU etc..), but also to secondary European cities from core hubs.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:51 pm
by dtwpilot225
Delta’s 737-800s are on average 18-20 years old. They won’t need to order anything to replace them for 5 years or so. It will be interesting at that point to see if the A220-500 is launched as that would be a great replacement. Simply put, delta didn’t order the max because it didn’t fit their current business model. All the orders they currently have are replacing the 88,90, and older 320. They had a bid out to Boeing and Airbus years ago for either the neo or max and they saw the neo as Better

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:59 pm
by Weatherwatcher1
NW747-400 wrote:
PW gave DL a deal to be an authorized MRO provider for the GTF, which also happens to power the A220.

CFM, from what I understand, did not offer a similar deal for the LEAP which likely pushed the order to Airbus.

DL has been very aggressive with expanding their portfolio of revenue opportunities. RR also inked a deal for DL to provide some level of support on the Trent platform as well, which may have played a role in the A359/A339 combination order.


That probably explains why Delta announced that they won the PW overhaul contract when they made the order announcement

From 2017 A321neo announcement

Agrees to firm order of 100 state-of-the-art A321neo aircraft with options of up to 100 additional jets; Delta TechOps to become Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul center for next-generation Pratt & Whitney geared-turbofan engines; Deliveries to begin in 2020 and will replace smaller, less technically advanced aircraft

...

Delta is also announcing a long-term commitment with Pratt & Whitney for Delta TechOps to be a major maintenance, repair and overhaul provider for the Pure Power PW1100G and PW1500G engines, powering Delta’s A321neo and C Series aircraft. This latest generation family of Pratt & Whitney engines is a major factor in the 12 percent fuel efficiency improvement on a per seat basis Delta expects over classic A321 performance.

“Pratt & Whitney’s commitment to complete over 5,000 engine repairs and overhauls at Delta TechOps is possible because of the high level of professionalism and quality MRO work the Delta TechOps team performs for the Delta fleet and to more than 150 additional airline and aviation customers based across the globe,” said Delta COO Gil West. “Delta TechOps’ position as an MRO industry leader and the largest in North America will be fortified even further with the addition of Pratt & Whitney engines to its extensive portfolio.”


https://news.delta.com/delta-selects-ai ... et-renewal

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:59 pm
by MIflyer12
dtwpilot225 wrote:
Delta’s 737-800s are on average 18-20 years old. They won’t need to order anything to replace them for 5 years or so.


They'll start retiring the oldest tranche of A320s soon, which seat just 3 fewer passengers than 738s. DL does not have enough narrowbodies on order to achieve stated goals of 4% domestic growth while retiring MD-88s, MD-90s, the oldest A320s (the oldest 28.9 years) and oldest 757s (the oldest non-75C 29.1 years). IMHO, Airbus couldn't build A220-300s fast enough even if DL did exercise remaining options. I don't think there are lots of short-term slots for 32xneos. I believe the likelihood of a MAX8 order for delivery to start within the next 36 months is excellent. Bastian has repeatedly gone out of his way to say good things about Boeing and the prospect for MAX fixes.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:19 pm
by bluefltspecial
JohnAudiR18 wrote:
I mean, Delta are the biggest Airbus fanbois in the USA, i’m low key surprised some of their customers are not like “if it’s not Airbus, i’m taking the bus”.


Actually, American Airlines at one point had quite a few more Airbus aircraft than Delta.

Keep in mind that AA got all of US A32X aircraft as well as the A33X I think they were quite a bit ahead of Delta. If memory serves at one point there were something like 275 A32X in their fleet.

However, Delta did place a large NEO order for A321s, and a decent order for A339/A350s, so that may have changed as I am not sure of the delivery schedule.

Perhaps someone with more up to date data could share where the fleets are at now.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:38 pm
by UPNYGuy
ikolkyo wrote:
I wouldn’t be shocked to see a MAX 8 order down the road.


It’ll be a while. The current operators haven’t worn them out enough yet :duck:.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:57 pm
by timf
bluefltspecial wrote:
JohnAudiR18 wrote:
I mean, Delta are the biggest Airbus fanbois in the USA, i’m low key surprised some of their customers are not like “if it’s not Airbus, i’m taking the bus”.


Actually, American Airlines at one point had quite a few more Airbus aircraft than Delta.

Keep in mind that AA got all of US A32X aircraft as well as the A33X I think they were quite a bit ahead of Delta. If memory serves at one point there were something like 275 A32X in their fleet.

However, Delta did place a large NEO order for A321s, and a decent order for A339/A350s, so that may have changed as I am not sure of the delivery schedule.

Perhaps someone with more up to date data could share where the fleets are at now.

American still has a much larger Airbus fleet - 425 vs 278 at Delta. If you combine the current fleets with outstanding orders, the number comes out to around 540 for both. However, there will also be retirements in that time so it will be a while before Delta challenges American for the title of largest Airbus fleet.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:58 pm
by twaconnie
Francoflier wrote:
Premonition?
:scratchchin:

Remember they also didn't buy the DC-10.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:02 pm
by BN727227Ultra
RRTrent wrote:
Boeing and DL never had a great relationship and DL were traditionally a Douglas customer. They've had big Boeing orders in the past (see recently completed 737 order) but these days Boeing don't offer anything can't be matched in some degree by Airbus. Boeing's antics with BBD over the C-Series cemented DL's position as an "Airbus first" customer. I say Airbus first as I wont they they wont order Boeing again, but they only will if Airbus cant or wont compete for the order. The recently delivered 739 could be the last new delivery to DL from Boeing for quite a while.


I had read a fairly detailed article years ago that DL really warmed up to B about the time of the 741 rollout. DL was going to need something to replace the CV880s, upgauge DC-9 routes, and some DC-8 routes. B said 'look at what we're doing with the 722', DL said 'keep talking' and B said 'how about we sell you some 741s with the understanding we'll buy them back once your Elton Elevens get sorted?'

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:18 pm
by hOMSaR
I’m envisioning OP spins two wheels (one with an airline’s name and the other with an aircraft type) and that determines the next topic that gets posted.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:34 pm
by jbs2886
tropical wrote:
Interesting article on Simple Flying today not on why DL didn't order the MAX, but on the happy consequences (at the present time at least) of them not doing so:

https://simpleflying.com/delta-737-max-benefit/


I follow these guys, but they aren't reporting - they are some teenage avgeeks. Point being, I'm all for supporting them, but not really a source to cite.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:37 pm
by jbs2886
MIflyer12 wrote:
dtwpilot225 wrote:
Delta’s 737-800s are on average 18-20 years old. They won’t need to order anything to replace them for 5 years or so.


They'll start retiring the oldest tranche of A320s soon, which seat just 3 fewer passengers than 738s. DL does not have enough narrowbodies on order to achieve stated goals of 4% domestic growth while retiring MD-88s, MD-90s, the oldest A320s (the oldest 28.9 years) and oldest 757s (the oldest non-75C 29.1 years). IMHO, Airbus couldn't build A220-300s fast enough even if DL did exercise remaining options. I don't think there are lots of short-term slots for 32xneos. I believe the likelihood of a MAX8 order for delivery to start within the next 36 months is excellent. Bastian has repeatedly gone out of his way to say good things about Boeing and the prospect for MAX fixes.


Agree. I think a lot of people overlook the fact that the MAX mess actually opens up some opportunities to Boeing for near-term availability. Get the MAX into DL's fleet at a great deal, then less great deals for follow up orders. We are in a duopoly, and Airbus is full. Airbus can only incentivize deferring deliveries for carriers to get near-term orders/deliveries.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:51 pm
by ukoverlander
They must be delighted with their decision not to order the 737 Max 'Franken-jet' given the current state of play.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:04 pm
by FlyHPN
hOMSaR wrote:
I’m envisioning OP spins two wheels (one with an airline’s name and the other with an aircraft type) and that determines the next topic that gets posted.

And sometimes we're lucky enough to get multiple airlines in the same spin.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:13 pm
by nycbjr
Can we stay on topic and not turn this into another Max bashing thread?
/rant

Multibillion dollar corporations don't make decisions on emotion. Delta doesn't "hate Boeing" any more than "Boeing hates Delta". The a321 is an impressive airframe and I'm sure that is why they purchased it.

It's always possible that a max order could come, but IMO that is unlikely. How much longer does the current fleet have? If DL was to order more 320/321 today when could delivery start? 5 years?

On a personal note I've really come around to airbus, I was a HUGE Boeing fanboy but man if they've lost their way (I hope that changes).

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:23 pm
by BoeingGuy
BrianWilkes wrote:
Cos there rubbish????


At least a 737 Max can properly use basic English spelling and grammar.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:24 pm
by BoeingGuy
twaconnie wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Premonition?
:scratchchin:

Remember they also didn't buy the DC-10.


DL flew DC-10s but the leased them, IIRC. So technically, I think you are correct.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:29 pm
by BoeingGuy
RRTrent wrote:
Boeing and DL never had a great relationship and DL were traditionally a Douglas customer. They've had big Boeing orders in the past (see recently completed 737 order) but these days Boeing don't offer anything can't be matched in some degree by Airbus. Boeing's antics with BBD over the C-Series cemented DL's position as an "Airbus first" customer. I say Airbus first as I wont they they wont order Boeing again, but they only will if Airbus cant or wont compete for the order. The recently delivered 739 could be the last new delivery to DL from Boeing for quite a while.


Boeing and Delta had such a poor relationship that DL decided to sign an exclusivity agreement with Boeing in the early 1990s.

I had actually heard that Boeing had a decent chance of winning the 737-9 campaign with DL. Boeing decided to sweeten the deal by filing a complaint over the C-Series that negatively affected DL right in the middle of a big sales campaign with DL. And you wonder why Boeing employees often have little faith in Boeing leadership?

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:32 pm
by BoeingGuy
hOMSaR wrote:
I’m envisioning OP spins two wheels (one with an airline’s name and the other with an aircraft type) and that determines the next topic that gets posted.


The third wheel is cities. When will DL return to HKG? Why does DL use the A330 instead of the A350 on DTW-NGO?

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:20 pm
by Delta777Jet
Most probably because it’s not a 20 year old design ! Delta tents to order planes which are proven for a couple of years or decades ! If it isn’t old it’s not flying for Delta ( wonder why the DC-9 is retired yet). I was shocked when there ordered the A-220 ( C-Series )

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:29 pm
by BoeingGuy
nycbjr wrote:
Can we stay on topic and not turn this into another Max bashing thread?
/rant

Multibillion dollar corporations don't make decisions on emotion. Delta doesn't "hate Boeing" any more than "Boeing hates Delta". The a321 is an impressive airframe and I'm sure that is why they purchased it.

It's always possible that a max order could come, but IMO that is unlikely. How much longer does the current fleet have? If DL was to order more 320/321 today when could delivery start? 5 years?

On a personal note I've really come around to airbus, I was a HUGE Boeing fanboy but man if they've lost their way (I hope that changes).


Boeing has been losing its way for 25 years as I’ve discussed in other threads. Now I’ve never seen anyone intentionally not uphold safety standards, but the results speak for themselves. I don’t just mean the Max. That was just a horribly tragic blunder. I mean every Boeing program is late and has problems. World Class Training and Research organizations have been dismantled for short term savings. Employee benefits have been cut. All while the CEOs walk away with their pockets lined off the backs of the employees and company.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:58 pm
by seabosdca
TurboJet707 wrote:
To justify introducing a new type in the fleet, there would need to be at least a few missions in Delta's network where the 737MAX would work (far) better than any A220/A320-family counterpart. In other words, what can a MAX do for DL that an A22X/A32X can't?


Not necessarily true. The deal would just have to be right. It's not really a "new type" for an airline that operates a bajillion 738s and 739s--it's a new engine and a bit of pilot training.

Now, granted, it's harder for the deal to be right given the situation with Delta TechOps and the engine OEMs. But the MAX 8 is a bit more of an attractive product than the A320neo in its size class, and if Delta decides it needs to take deliveries of something smaller than A321neos then I could see a MAX 8 order being a rational choice.

On the other hand, if the airline wants to keep upgauging when it replaces its early-build A320s and the remaining MD-90s, then more A321neos will surely be the best option, unless Airbus gets way too cocky on pricing.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:15 pm
by max999
Delta benefited by avoiding all the costs and associated headaches of the groundings of two Boeing types.

First they avoided the terrible teens 787 and the 787 battery grounding. NW was set to receive the first batches of 787 and become the first North American operator. At the time of the order, NW would not have known about the huge delays to the program and the subsequent overweight 787 they would have received. And of course, no one could have predicted the battery groundings. The merger happened and DL decided to pass on the 787.

Next they avoided the Max. DL decided to go with the NEO and now the rest is history.

Re: Why didn’t Delta order the 737 MAX?

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:18 pm
by bob75013
BoeingGuy wrote:
nycbjr wrote:
Can we stay on topic and not turn this into another Max bashing thread?
/rant

Multibillion dollar corporations don't make decisions on emotion. Delta doesn't "hate Boeing" any more than "Boeing hates Delta". The a321 is an impressive airframe and I'm sure that is why they purchased it.

It's always possible that a max order could come, but IMO that is unlikely. How much longer does the current fleet have? If DL was to order more 320/321 today when could delivery start? 5 years?

On a personal note I've really come around to airbus, I was a HUGE Boeing fanboy but man if they've lost their way (I hope that changes).


Boeing has been losing its way for 25 years as I’ve discussed in other threads. Now I’ve never seen anyone intentionally not uphold safety standards, but the results speak for themselves. I don’t just mean the Max. That was just a horribly tragic blunder. I mean every Boeing program is late and has problems. World Class Training and Research organizations have been dismantled for short term savings. Employee benefits have been cut. All while the CEOs walk away with their pockets lined off the backs of the employees and company.



And what does that have to do with Delta and the 737MAX?