acjbbj
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Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:47 am

10. Airbus A340-500/A340-600
9.
8.
7. Hawker Siddeley Trident
6. McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
5.
4. Concorde
3.
2. Dassault Mercure
1. Airbus A380

Here's what I have so far as the top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation, with #1 being the worst.
What are your thoughts? What should go in the blanks? Should airplanes be re-ordered?
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:00 am

What’s your measure of failure? Number sold, financial loss, technically bad, what? Concorde was a technical success, financial loss for the government’s and AF, but marginal profit for BA, plus brought prestige to BA. Mercure served only Air Inter, but technically fine, safe. The A380 brought lots of new technology, has been operationally fine, just didn’t sell as it was too big. The MD-90 was a bad idea from the get-go.

I’d add the VC-10, great plane, didn’t sell as it was too specialized for BOAC African Ops. TU-144 and DC-10 had horrific accidents that damaged their builders reputation. The MD-11 only piled on the accidents, fortunately in cargo ops. Whether the MAX succeeds or not, it belongs here. Boeing could and should have done better. If the A380 is here, so should the L-1011, similar build numbers.

GF
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:01 am

Bristol Brabazon.
 
Max Q
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:12 am

The A380 is without question the biggest commercial failure in civil aviation
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:36 am

737MAX. Boeing made a dumb and deadly decision to get rid of additional training by installing a flawed augmentation system. In the best case scenario that cost them a huge amount in compensation and potential profit, in the worst case scenario it’ll sink the most profitable plane manufacturer in history.
 
acjbbj
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:47 am

Update:

10. Airbus A340-500 / -600
9. Lockheed L-1011 TriStar
8. Hawker Siddeley Trident
7. McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
6. Vickers VC-10
5. Concorde
4. Tupolev Tu-144
3. Dassault Mercure
2. Bristol Brabazon

Honourable mentions that didn't quite make it:
- Boeing 737 Max (if it indeed doesn't fly again)
- McDonnell-Douglas MD-11
- Airbus A340-200 / -300

1. Airbus A380
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vorellanaj
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:06 pm

Boeing 747SP was also an unsuccessful commercial project. Most airlines at the time are not interested to trade less capacity for more range. Instead, Boeing increased MTOW on B747-200 and engines manufacturers made more powerful engines.
The aviation world will be bored if only twins fly with commercial passengers. I love 747s
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:35 pm

I'm missing the De Havilland Comet here, the first jet powered airliner which had a number of crashes due to metal fatigue. Of course this was fixed in later editions, but by then the damage had been done. The Comet was classified as a commercial failure.
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:46 pm

Another commercial failure could be the Ilyushin IL-86. The fact that it didn't even sell in other communist countries at the time with the exception of East Germany says enough. Even China, a very loyal customer of Russian aircraft in those days, wasn't interested.

It might have been a big aircraft, but it only had short range and was anything but economical. The engines, originally designed for the IL-62, were hardly powerful enough and had to operate on maximum power for normal performance. That made it a huge gas guzzler.
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:52 pm

747-8

As much as I like the 747 it's a final squeeze of the orange. A lot of effort for a few more drops. .
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:04 pm

n729pa wrote:
747-8

As much as I like the 747 it's a final squeeze of the orange. A lot of effort for a few more drops. .


747-8 product is not a commercial failure if you considering both versions. Boeing slowed their production but not stopped yet. There are too many 744 Freighter to replace and Boeing expected more orders. Nose load feature helps to Boeing to maintain 747 line in production.
The aviation world will be bored if only twins fly with commercial passengers. I love 747s
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:17 pm

vorellanaj wrote:
n729pa wrote:
747-8

As much as I like the 747 it's a final squeeze of the orange. A lot of effort for a few more drops. .


747-8 product is not a commercial failure if you considering both versions. Boeing slowed their production but not stopped yet. There are too many 744 Freighter to replace and Boeing expected more orders. Nose load feature helps to Boeing to maintain 747 line in production.

Even with the freighter version, it would still have to be considered a failure due to the abysmal sales figures
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:18 pm

Max Q wrote:
The A380 is without question the biggest commercial failure in civil aviation

How is that possible when it sold much better than literally every entrant in that list?
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acjbbj
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:00 pm

triple3driver wrote:
Max Q wrote:
The A380 is without question the biggest commercial failure in civil aviation

How is that possible when it sold much better than literally every entrant in that list?

Because it was built mostly out of pride, ego, hubris, and shoddy planning. "Hey Boeing! We built the world's biggest plane!".
You could say the same to a lesser extent for Concorde as well.
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acjbbj
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:02 pm

triple3driver wrote:
vorellanaj wrote:
n729pa wrote:
747-8

As much as I like the 747 it's a final squeeze of the orange. A lot of effort for a few more drops. .


747-8 product is not a commercial failure if you considering both versions. Boeing slowed their production but not stopped yet. There are too many 744 Freighter to replace and Boeing expected more orders. Nose load feature helps to Boeing to maintain 747 line in production.

Even with the freighter version, it would still have to be considered a failure due to the abysmal sales figures

Keep in mind that Boeing weren't even expecting to sell a lot of them.
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triple3driver
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:59 pm

acjbbj wrote:
triple3driver wrote:
Max Q wrote:
The A380 is without question the biggest commercial failure in civil aviation

How is that possible when it sold much better than literally every entrant in that list?

Because it was built mostly out of pride, ego, hubris, and shoddy planning. "Hey Boeing! We built the world's biggest plane!".
You could say the same to a lesser extent for Concorde as well.

I don't think that any of us can really say why it was built since we weren't at Toulouse when the thing was being developed. And come on, you're really going to say that it was a bigger failure than the Dassault Mercure, 10 copies, and the Bristol Brabazon, which didn't sell at all? Enders calling it a success is pushing it, but at nearly 300 firm orders, it's not that bad of a failure considering how terribly the other aircraft on that list fared.
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ANNEX14
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:41 pm

CV-880/CV-990. Pretty much the nail in the coffin for Convair's commercial aspirations and nearly broke the company.
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:06 pm

Max Q wrote:
The A380 is without question the biggest commercial failure in civil aviation


By what metric did you come to that conclusion? It’s sold more than the 747-8, and several others on the list.

OP, please explain your reasoning for the ordering the aircraft on your list. It makes no sense.
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Turnhouse1
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:44 pm

If the metric is Safety then I'd rate the MAX as much worse than the Comet. As while the MAX only had 2 crashes compared to 4, while the Comet was redefining aviation as the first jetliner the MAX was a fuel saving overhaul of an existing plane, so was much less ambitious.

Economically, the A380 likely has lost the most £/$/€, it won't look quite as bad inflation adjusted and at least Emirates, BA and Quantas are likely operating them profitably. Did the A340 even actually lose money, a lot of costs were needed for the very successful A330.

Technologically the Concorde was anything but a failure, it flew for ~30 years. The Tupolev was less successful, is the 2707 exempt as none were ever built?
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:08 pm

753? 717?

757 program was short lived... Hands down
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:25 pm

ANNEX14 wrote:
CV-880/CV-990. Pretty much the nail in the coffin for Convair's commercial aspirations and nearly broke the company.

That would be my first thought as well, I would rank them higher than the 380.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:34 pm

September11 wrote:
753? 717?

757 program was short lived... Hands down


The 757 wasn't that short lived and technically it was a good plane. As a matter of fact it still is, most 757s that were around back then are still around, very few have been retired. Besides there is demand for a plane that size, look at the popularity of the A321.

The 717 was originally developed as the MD-95 and was a finished design when McDonell-Douglas was bought by Boeing. The design was included in the purchase, all Boeing had to do was change it's name to 717 and bring it into production. That they didn't sell much had more to do with marketing than with the quality of the plane, they were afraid the 717 would be too much of a threat to the 737 so they didn't market it too heavily and cut off production early. They didn't really want the 717 to begin with, but since it came with the purchase they just made the best of it. Should McDonnell-Douglas not have been bought by Boeing, chances are far more MD-95s would have been sold and it would have stayed in production much longer with possible further development which didn't happen under Boeing.
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:11 pm

I don't think any of us can all agree on the top 10 biggest failures in commericial aviation, but here are the first 10 that come to mind for me in no particular order:

1. Ilyushin il-96 - Nobody wants the things
2. Sukhoi Superjet 100 - Most airlines that operate these hate them and don't want them anymore. I feel like the beginning of the end for the Superjet is coming
3. Tupolev Tu-204/214 - Nobody wants them
4. Antonov An-148/158 - Nobody wants them, unreliable
5. 737-600 - The demand Boeing thought there was for this variant didn't exist
6. Shanghai Y-10 - never entered commercial service
7. Antonov An-140 Only 35 ever made since 2002. Only one still in commercial service
8. Lockheed L-1011 - the reason why Lockheed doesn't make passenger planes anymore
9. Comac ARJ21 - Was a clunker before it even entered service. Will probably never be made in large numbers
10. Ilyushin il-114 - Only 20 were ever made

In summary: The Russians, Chinese, and Ukrainians SUCK at building aircraft that airlines actually want to buy.
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:50 pm

triple3driver wrote:
vorellanaj wrote:
n729pa wrote:
747-8

As much as I like the 747 it's a final squeeze of the orange. A lot of effort for a few more drops. .


747-8 product is not a commercial failure if you considering both versions. Boeing slowed their production but not stopped yet. There are too many 744 Freighter to replace and Boeing expected more orders. Nose load feature helps to Boeing to maintain 747 line in production.

Even with the freighter version, it would still have to be considered a failure due to the abysmal sales figures


Compared to the 747SP & the 747-300? Combined the two variants sold less copies than the 748.

bgm wrote:
Max Q wrote:
The A380 is without question the biggest commercial failure in civil aviation


By what metric did you come to that conclusion? It’s sold more than the 747-8, and several others on the list.

OP, please explain your reasoning for the ordering the aircraft on your list. It makes no sense.


It may have sold more, but it definitely didn't break even.

The 748 may have sold less, but it definitely didn't cost as much as the A380 to develop.
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:12 am

Fokker 70 with (sadly) only 48 build. A wonderful little plane though.
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acjbbj
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:20 am

Update:

10. Hawker Siddeley Trident
9. McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
8. Vickers VC-10
7. Convair CV-880 / CV-990
6. Fokker 70
5. Concorde
4. Tupolev Tu-144
3. Dassault Mercure
2. Bristol Brabazon

Honourable mentions that didn't quite make it:
- Boeing 737 Max*
- Airbus A340
- McDonnell-Douglas MD-11
- Lockheed L-1011 TriStar

*If it really doesn't fly again

1. Airbus A380
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:42 am

acjbbj wrote:
triple3driver wrote:
Max Q wrote:
The A380 is without question the biggest commercial failure in civil aviation

How is that possible when it sold much better than literally every entrant in that list?

Because it was built mostly out of pride, ego, hubris, and shoddy planning. "Hey Boeing! We built the world's biggest plane!".
You could say the same to a lesser extent for Concorde as well.


And clearly when it comes to a topic like this, we'll just be hearing empty reasoning. Like this one.
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:08 pm

acjbbj wrote:
triple3driver wrote:
vorellanaj wrote:

747-8 product is not a commercial failure if you considering both versions. Boeing slowed their production but not stopped yet. There are too many 744 Freighter to replace and Boeing expected more orders. Nose load feature helps to Boeing to maintain 747 line in production.

Even with the freighter version, it would still have to be considered a failure due to the abysmal sales figures

Keep in mind that Boeing weren't even expecting to sell a lot of them.


They weren’t, it was planned as a freighter while international pax moved over to an SST—Concorde or B2707.

It can be funny how small a planned production can be and yet approved to move forward. When Grumman designed the Gulfstream II, they believed if they sold one to every qualified buyer, they’d sell about 90 frames. Production ended at 250-ish and moved on to the G III. The Global Express was planned to sell 250, but will end this year around frame 850 and be succeeded by the 5500/6500. Market shifting designs are a gamble.

GF
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:50 pm

acjbbj wrote:
6. Fokker 70


I don't agree, the Fokker F-70 was quite a successful plane. During the days they were built, Fokker stood for high quality. It was one of the best regional jets at the time and they served for quite long. A good number of them are still in service. There are lots of aircraft that performed far worse than the Fokker F-70.
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:54 pm

fallap wrote:
Fokker 70 with (sadly) only 48 build. A wonderful little plane though.


If Fokker wouldn't have gone belly-up, they would have sold far more and there would have been future generations of it. And Fokker didn't go down because of the Fokker F-70.

I do certainly not consider this aircraft a failure in any way, it was one of the best regional jets at the time.
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:08 pm

acjbbj wrote:
Update:

10. Hawker Siddeley Trident
9. McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
8. Vickers VC-10
7. Convair CV-880 / CV-990
6. Fokker 70
5. Concorde
4. Tupolev Tu-144
3. Dassault Mercure
2. Bristol Brabazon

Honourable mentions that didn't quite make it:
- Boeing 737 Max*
- Airbus A340
- McDonnell-Douglas MD-11
- Lockheed L-1011 TriStar

*If it really doesn't fly again

1. Airbus A380


Let's rearrange this list a bit, yours obviously doesn't make any sense.

10. McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
9. Antonov AN-148/158
8. Lockheed L-1011
7. Airbus A380
6. Concorde
5. Convair CV-880/CV-990
4. Bristol Brabazon
3. Boeing 747SP
2. Dassault Mercure
1. De Havilland Comet

The A380 has been bumped from first to seventh place. It was a failure, but far from the biggest.
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:44 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
triple3driver wrote:
vorellanaj wrote:

747-8 product is not a commercial failure if you considering both versions. Boeing slowed their production but not stopped yet. There are too many 744 Freighter to replace and Boeing expected more orders. Nose load feature helps to Boeing to maintain 747 line in production.

Even with the freighter version, it would still have to be considered a failure due to the abysmal sales figures


Compared to the 747SP & the 747-300? Combined the two variants sold less copies than the 748.

bgm wrote:
Max Q wrote:
The A380 is without question the biggest commercial failure in civil aviation


By what metric did you come to that conclusion? It’s sold more than the 747-8, and several others on the list.

OP, please explain your reasoning for the ordering the aircraft on your list. It makes no sense.


It may have sold more, but it definitely didn't break even.

The 748 may have sold less, but it definitely didn't cost as much as the A380 to develop.


The SP was fairly niche for its time and the 300 overlapped the 200B and with the 400 on horizon most Airlines jumped a generation ie BA LH AF UA for example and the likes of RG SN SA AI TG KE MH all had single or very small sub fleet.

The fact reminds the 747-8 isn't selling, the argument made by another poster about it still being in production doesn't matter either, the A380 is still being built after all too. Boeing could slow the production down to one unit per quarter, it would still be in production but it's fundamentally still not adding to its order book. Otherwise where are the orders from the legacy 747 multi-series operators like BA QF UA AF JL SQ etc?
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:10 pm

Relatively low cost derivatives surely shouldn't be on this list. A340 200 and 300 are simple derivatives of the A330 for example, ditto the 767-400 and 757-300 which had disappointing sales, but were on the back of successful programmes.

114 Comets were made (plus another 49 of the related Nimrod) so it wasn't a sales disaster. The Vickers Vanguard for example was more of a commercial disaster (only 44 built) as it was simply the wrong plane.

Proper failures that should be on this list would include the likes of VFW614, the stillborn Fairchild Dornier 728/928 and indeed the smaller 328, the CBA 123 which was cancelled before entering production etc
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:10 pm

Can someone explain to me why no one has the Bristol Brabazon as #1 on this list?? One flying demonstrator (that didn't even have its interior configured), and ZERO orders.
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:06 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
acjbbj wrote:
Update:

10. Hawker Siddeley Trident
9. McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
8. Vickers VC-10
7. Convair CV-880 / CV-990
6. Fokker 70
5. Concorde
4. Tupolev Tu-144
3. Dassault Mercure
2. Bristol Brabazon

Honourable mentions that didn't quite make it:
- Boeing 737 Max*
- Airbus A340
- McDonnell-Douglas MD-11
- Lockheed L-1011 TriStar

*If it really doesn't fly again

1. Airbus A380


Let's rearrange this list a bit, yours obviously doesn't make any sense.

10. McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
9. Antonov AN-148/158
8. Lockheed L-1011
7. Airbus A380
6. Concorde
5. Convair CV-880/CV-990
4. Bristol Brabazon
3. Boeing 747SP
2. Dassault Mercure
1. De Havilland Comet

The A380 has been bumped from first to seventh place. It was a failure, but far from the biggest.


The number of L1011 build were 250, while the number of MD11 was only 200. The L1011 caused Lockheed to pull out of the commercial aviation market for good, while the MD11 was a major contributor to McDonnell Douglas going out of business and merge with Boeing, so wouldn't it make more sense to replace the L1011 with the MD11? :)
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acjbbj
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:10 am

fallap wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
acjbbj wrote:
Update:

10. Hawker Siddeley Trident
9. McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
8. Vickers VC-10
7. Convair CV-880 / CV-990
6. Fokker 70
5. Concorde
4. Tupolev Tu-144
3. Dassault Mercure
2. Bristol Brabazon

Honourable mentions that didn't quite make it:
- Boeing 737 Max*
- Airbus A340
- McDonnell-Douglas MD-11
- Lockheed L-1011 TriStar

*If it really doesn't fly again

1. Airbus A380


Let's rearrange this list a bit, yours obviously doesn't make any sense.

10. McDonnell-Douglas MD-90
9. Antonov AN-148/158
8. Lockheed L-1011
7. Airbus A380
6. Concorde
5. Convair CV-880/CV-990
4. Bristol Brabazon
3. Boeing 747SP
2. Dassault Mercure
1. De Havilland Comet

The A380 has been bumped from first to seventh place. It was a failure, but far from the biggest.


The number of L1011 build were 250, while the number of MD11 was only 200. The L1011 caused Lockheed to pull out of the commercial aviation market for good, while the MD11 was a major contributor to McDonnell Douglas going out of business and merge with Boeing, so wouldn't it make more sense to replace the L1011 with the MD11? :)

The MD-11 has a good future as a freighter, as did the DC-10. The L-1011 saw very few freighter conversions, and none of the converted TriStar freighters are in service anymore.
So the MD-11 would be nominated but wouldn't make the list. In fact, its cargo performance is why I consider it to be neither success nor failure.
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dredgy
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:31 am

A380 shouldn't be on the list - it sold reasonably well, will be in service for a while, and the financial impact on the company wasn't exactly ruining, by the end of the program losses will be minimal. If it's a failure (and I wouldn't necessarily say it is) it is far from the top 10.

Would hesitate to put Concorde on the list too, though I can see many reasons why it would be.
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:14 am

The MD-90 had received 328 orders and options three months after its November 1989 launch. What happened to cause it to end up with only 116 aircraft deliveries?
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:30 am

CowAnon wrote:
The MD-90 had received 328 orders and options three months after its November 1989 launch. What happened to cause it to end up with only 116 aircraft deliveries?


The options were cancelled; it wasn’t efficient owing to ballast being added forward to offset the heavy engines; Boeing took over and wasn’t interested.

GF
 
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:43 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
CowAnon wrote:
The MD-90 had received 328 orders and options three months after its November 1989 launch. What happened to cause it to end up with only 116 aircraft deliveries?


The options were cancelled; it wasn’t efficient owing to ballast being added forward to offset the heavy engines; Boeing took over and wasn’t interested.

GF


DL had something like 175 on order but only took about 37. AS canceled their entire order.
 
YIMBY
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:27 am

To get any perspective instead of bashing, would you kindly provide educated estimations of the development costs (inflated, relative to epoch's standard), numbers sold, revenue, loss, years of service, accidents, customer satisfaction etc. Note also that a commercial failure may have included technological success and many lessons may have been used in the successive planes so not all development costs have been lost.
 
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Loran
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:25 pm

acjbbj wrote:
Because it was built mostly out of pride, ego, hubris, and shoddy planning. "Hey Boeing! We built the world's biggest plane!".
You could say the same to a lesser extent for Concorde as well.

Utter nonsense and the reason why I hardly visit this forum any longer :crazy:
Your list seems to be driven by your own ego. As others mentioned, the A380 shouldn't be on that list. If you include the technological innovations, which were later transferred to other Airbus types, then it is clear that the A380 is no failure.

Regards,
Loran
703 717 727 732-9 747 757 767 777 787 AB2/6 310 318-321 330 340 359 380 D8M D91/3/5 D1C M11 M81-90 L10 IL1/8/6/7/W/9/4 TU3/5/2 YK4/2
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:51 pm

KentB27 wrote:
I don't think any of us can all agree on the top 10 biggest failures in commericial aviation, but here are the first 10 that come to mind for me in no particular order:

1. Ilyushin il-96 - Nobody wants the things
2. Sukhoi Superjet 100 - Most airlines that operate these hate them and don't want them anymore. I feel like the beginning of the end for the Superjet is coming
3. Tupolev Tu-204/214 - Nobody wants them
4. Antonov An-148/158 - Nobody wants them, unreliable
5. 737-600 - The demand Boeing thought there was for this variant didn't exist
6. Shanghai Y-10 - never entered commercial service
7. Antonov An-140 Only 35 ever made since 2002. Only one still in commercial service
8. Lockheed L-1011 - the reason why Lockheed doesn't make passenger planes anymore
9. Comac ARJ21 - Was a clunker before it even entered service. Will probably never be made in large numbers
10. Ilyushin il-114 - Only 20 were ever made

In summary: The Russians, Chinese, and Ukrainians SUCK at building aircraft that airlines actually want to buy.


Thank you for being one of the only posters in this thread to have some sense. I agree with your entire list.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
9Patch
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:46 am

triple3driver wrote:
I don't think that any of us can really say why it was built since we weren't at Toulouse when the thing was being developed. And come on, you're really going to say that it was a bigger failure than the Dassault Mercure, 10 copies, and the Bristol Brabazon, which didn't sell at all? Enders calling it a success is pushing it, but at nearly 300 firm orders, it's not that bad of a failure considering how terribly the other aircraft on that list fared.


251 is nearly 300 firm orders?
 
kimimm19
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:25 am

The a380 was not a failure. It sold rather well for its size.

I'm amazed people have forgotten the 764... :stirthepot:
 
Canuck600
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:59 am

If I remember correctly from reading Joe Sutters book the SP was sort of a loss leader so to speak, they created it to help out certain customers & while it didn't sell in big numbers he claims that producing it led to the companies that bought it buying other Boeing products.

I believe the same sort of rationale was behind the high density 747 models for the Japanese market. Not that many produced but they kept customer loyalty. It's 0100 in the morning here & I'm going on memory but the gist of it is sometimes you take a hit on a particular model but you help the overall program as a whole.
 
FlySSC
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:06 am

The A380 is indeed a failure but certainly not THE biggest failure in the commercial Aviation.
300 airplanes or so were ordered and operated by 14 airlines... far from what Airbus expected, Ok, but much more than some other aircraft types.

The Dassault Mercure for me is the number 1. Only 1 airline (Air Inter) placed an order for 10 aircraft and that’s it.
Even Concorde did better with 14 series aircraft built and operated by 2 airlines (AF & BA) and at least, Concorde interested airlines when it was launched as many ordered it before cancelling their orders for the reasons everybody knows.
 
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Lingon
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Re: Top 10 biggest failures in commercial aviation?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:48 pm

I would throw in Saab 90 Scandia (18 built).
I would more agree to KentB27:s list than the OP:s. The A380 and A346 were failures from a business perspective, but not complete disasters. I don't know if I would put 737-600 on the list however, was it about 60-70 planes - and a derivative with lower development costs.

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