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QF744
Topic Author
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:05 pm

American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:42 pm

I was watching this video of American’s International Flagship Business Class...

https://wayfarer.travel/wayfarer-tv-rev ... ess-class/

It was making me wonder: what’s next for American in Business Class?

With Delta, British Airways and Qatar all going for a ‘business suite’ product, will AA also start looking at developing a new J Class cabin?

They can’t just rely on enhancing the soft product... because most recently the wine and food onboard AA hasn’t been great so the soft product definitely isn’t improving.

What does everyone think?
OVER 150 FLIGHTS PER YEAR.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2660
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:50 pm

Probably gonna get moved to Travel...

AA's new business class product is relatively new, only a few years old. BAs and Delta's were much older than AA's newer product.

With the incoming 788s next year, wouldn't be surprised if they continue with Collins Aerospace Super Diamond on them.
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3138
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:05 pm

Delta's business class hard product is still miles behind AA's. They just slapped a door on it to make it look better.

It's the same seat that AA has on their much-maligned 767-300s, the worst of the AA widebody business class offerings.

It's astounding that United's Polaris seat and the Delta One "suite" are getting so much positive press. It's the same antiquated Thompson Vantage XL seat, and is totally surpassed by the Zodiac and B/E offerings AA has on their 777s and 787-9s.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2660
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:27 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
Delta's business class hard product is still miles behind AA's. They just slapped a door on it to make it look better.

It's the same seat that AA has on their much-maligned 767-300s, the worst of the AA widebody business class offerings.

It's astounding that United's Polaris seat and the Delta One "suite" are getting so much positive press. It's the same antiquated Thompson Vantage XL seat, and is totally surpassed by the Zodiac and B/E offerings AA has on their 777s and 787-9s.


Have you actually tried the Delta One Suite and confirmed it’s “miles behind” AA’s?

Having a fully enclosed suite is the new trend in premium seats. DL was the U.S. carrier first to do so, resulting in positive feedback.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you’re saying it’s astounding that DL/UA’s product is getting so much positive press. AA’s Collins Aerospace Super Diamond has been getting positive press.

The older Zodiac seats for the 788 and select 772s have gotten bad press due to the coffin feeling and shaky seats.

AA’s 763s don’t feature PTVs, which angered many.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1901
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:36 pm

American's business class product is actually pretty good overall. The seats are comfortable, lie flat, the cabins look smart and crisp if a bit cold. The catering is mediocre to hit and miss depending on the route. The seats do vary across the 77W, 772 and 787-8/9 fleet, as well as the A333/332 but overall, pretty good. United's Polaris cabin looks amazing but I have not tried the new version, just the rebranded old BusinessFirst products on ex-CO aircraft not yet retrofitted. Have flown Delta One on the A330. The cabins look dated and the service was meh, but visually, the new cabin being rolled out to match the A350 looks pretty smart.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3441
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:38 pm

QF744 wrote:
I was watching this video of American’s International Flagship Business Class...

https://wayfarer.travel/wayfarer-tv-rev ... ess-class/

It was making me wonder: what’s next for American in Business Class?

With Delta, British Airways and Qatar all going for a ‘business suite’ product, will AA also start looking at developing a new J Class cabin?

They can’t just rely on enhancing the soft product... because most recently the wine and food onboard AA hasn’t been great so the soft product definitely isn’t improving.

What does everyone think?


Clearly AA's board of directors is ok with American being firmly in last place now behind DL and UA. If they didn't look at replacing Parker after losing money flying passengers in Q4 in a year when DL made $8 billion, giving a few hundred million more away with an inferior J product should not be an issue.
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3138
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:44 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
Delta's business class hard product is still miles behind AA's. They just slapped a door on it to make it look better.

It's the same seat that AA has on their much-maligned 767-300s, the worst of the AA widebody business class offerings.

It's astounding that United's Polaris seat and the Delta One "suite" are getting so much positive press. It's the same antiquated Thompson Vantage XL seat, and is totally surpassed by the Zodiac and B/E offerings AA has on their 777s and 787-9s.


Have you actually tried the Delta One Suite and confirmed it’s “miles behind” AA’s?

Having a fully enclosed suite is the new trend in premium seats. DL was the U.S. carrier first to do so, resulting in positive feedback.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you’re saying it’s astounding that DL/UA’s product is getting so much positive press. AA’s Collins Aerospace Super Diamond has been getting positive press.

The older Zodiac seats for the 788 and select 772s have gotten bad press due to the coffin feeling and shaky seats.

AA’s 763s don’t feature PTVs, which angered many.


I don't need to. The Thompson Vantage XL is a materially worse seat with a smaller footprint and less space than either of the two other offerings on the 77W or the 789.

What's astounding is a seat design that is second from the very bottom of all-aisle-access offerings is getting such positive press when it's, after so many years, still a distant competitor to the top products (I'll gladly give you the Zodiac surprise massage seat...err, business class seat is worse).

I've flown seats with doors before, and it's fine, but it doesn't move the needle for me at all. A reverse herringbone configuration provides plenty of privacy.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2660
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:49 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
Delta's business class hard product is still miles behind AA's. They just slapped a door on it to make it look better.

It's the same seat that AA has on their much-maligned 767-300s, the worst of the AA widebody business class offerings.

It's astounding that United's Polaris seat and the Delta One "suite" are getting so much positive press. It's the same antiquated Thompson Vantage XL seat, and is totally surpassed by the Zodiac and B/E offerings AA has on their 777s and 787-9s.


Have you actually tried the Delta One Suite and confirmed it’s “miles behind” AA’s?

Having a fully enclosed suite is the new trend in premium seats. DL was the U.S. carrier first to do so, resulting in positive feedback.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you’re saying it’s astounding that DL/UA’s product is getting so much positive press. AA’s Collins Aerospace Super Diamond has been getting positive press.

The older Zodiac seats for the 788 and select 772s have gotten bad press due to the coffin feeling and shaky seats.

AA’s 763s don’t feature PTVs, which angered many.


I don't need to. The Thompson Vantage XL is a materially worse seat with a smaller footprint and less space than either of the two other offerings on the 77W or the 789.

What's astounding is a seat design that is second from the very bottom of all-aisle-access offerings is getting such positive press when it's, after so many years, still a distant competitor to the top products (I'll gladly give you the Zodiac surprise massage seat...err, business class seat is worse).

I've flown seats with doors before, and it's fine, but it doesn't move the needle for me at all. A reverse herringbone configuration provides plenty of privacy.


“Smaller footprint”

Do you mean footprint, as in popularity and how well-known it is?
Or do you mean footwell, the space for your feet.

Which other seat has doors? The only one that comes to mind and isn’t the XL is the QSuite.
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3138
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:55 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Have you actually tried the Delta One Suite and confirmed it’s “miles behind” AA’s?

Having a fully enclosed suite is the new trend in premium seats. DL was the U.S. carrier first to do so, resulting in positive feedback.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you’re saying it’s astounding that DL/UA’s product is getting so much positive press. AA’s Collins Aerospace Super Diamond has been getting positive press.

The older Zodiac seats for the 788 and select 772s have gotten bad press due to the coffin feeling and shaky seats.

AA’s 763s don’t feature PTVs, which angered many.


I don't need to. The Thompson Vantage XL is a materially worse seat with a smaller footprint and less space than either of the two other offerings on the 77W or the 789.

What's astounding is a seat design that is second from the very bottom of all-aisle-access offerings is getting such positive press when it's, after so many years, still a distant competitor to the top products (I'll gladly give you the Zodiac surprise massage seat...err, business class seat is worse).

I've flown seats with doors before, and it's fine, but it doesn't move the needle for me at all. A reverse herringbone configuration provides plenty of privacy.


“Smaller footprint”

Do you mean footprint, as in popularity and how well-known it is?
Or do you mean footwell, the space for your feet.

Which other seat has doors? The only one that comes to mind and isn’t the XL is the QSuite.


I mean the overall size of the seat. The area.

I've flown the Etihad Apartments. Not business class, obviously, but when discussing doors, I don't think it matters which cabin it is. :-)
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Antarius
Posts: 2138
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:57 pm

The Zodiac Cirrus on the 77W is still the best J seat in the sky, IMO.

AA has a lot of flaws, soft product, operations, but their WB hard product (save for the soon to be retired 767 fleet) still grossly surpasses the others
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:18 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Have you actually tried the Delta One Suite and confirmed it’s “miles behind” AA’s?

Having a fully enclosed suite is the new trend in premium seats. DL was the U.S. carrier first to do so, resulting in positive feedback.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you’re saying it’s astounding that DL/UA’s product is getting so much positive press. AA’s Collins Aerospace Super Diamond has been getting positive press.

The older Zodiac seats for the 788 and select 772s have gotten bad press due to the coffin feeling and shaky seats.

AA’s 763s don’t feature PTVs, which angered many.


I don't need to. The Thompson Vantage XL is a materially worse seat with a smaller footprint and less space than either of the two other offerings on the 77W or the 789.

What's astounding is a seat design that is second from the very bottom of all-aisle-access offerings is getting such positive press when it's, after so many years, still a distant competitor to the top products (I'll gladly give you the Zodiac surprise massage seat...err, business class seat is worse).

I've flown seats with doors before, and it's fine, but it doesn't move the needle for me at all. A reverse herringbone configuration provides plenty of privacy.


“Smaller footprint”

Do you mean footprint, as in popularity and how well-known it is?
Or do you mean footwell, the space for your feet.

Which other seat has doors? The only one that comes to mind and isn’t the XL is the QSuite.

But but but... the plastic door! :roll:
Sometimes I think delta fans would be ok with non lie-flat if it had a plastic door on it and was marketed by Delta as what they should want

Their “new” premium seat is literally their old seat with a plastic door...
 
x1234
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:35 pm

AA's is definitely better than the crapper old 2-2-2 seats UA is flying over the Pacific (their 787's on their AU routes still haven't been POLARIS'ed) and similar seats on LATAM over the South Pacific.
 
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jsnww81
Posts: 2543
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:39 pm

The longhaul J hard product on American is solid. The 788s have the shaker seats and the 763 seats are so-so (ok as they're on their way out soon) but the 789 and 777 fleet have a great hard product offering.

Good thing, too, because the soft product is all over the place. Catering quality has nosedived over the last few years although there are a few outstations in Europe in Asia that still provide decent stuff. Get a good crew and it'll be the best flight of your life, full of smiles and friendly conversation and attentive service. Get the usual crop of sour-faced AA dinosaurs and you'll be wishing there was no crew on board at all.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2028
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:01 pm

I’ve been kinda curious about this, and figured it’s better to ask this here instead of its own thread. When will American update its A321T product? Will they eventually replace this with the 321NEO?
 
QF744
Topic Author
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:05 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:08 pm

SXDFC wrote:
I’ve been kinda curious about this, and figured it’s better to ask this here instead of its own thread. When will American update its A321T product? Will they eventually replace this with the 321NEO?


Was actually just thinking that too... maybe a combined 1-1 F/J cabin instead of the duel cabin that’s there now?
OVER 150 FLIGHTS PER YEAR.
 
QF744
Topic Author
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:05 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:11 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
Delta's business class hard product is still miles behind AA's. They just slapped a door on it to make it look better.

It's the same seat that AA has on their much-maligned 767-300s, the worst of the AA widebody business class offerings.

It's astounding that United's Polaris seat and the Delta One "suite" are getting so much positive press. It's the same antiquated Thompson Vantage XL seat, and is totally surpassed by the Zodiac and B/E offerings AA has on their 777s and 787-9s.


Have you actually tried the Delta One Suite and confirmed it’s “miles behind” AA’s?

Having a fully enclosed suite is the new trend in premium seats. DL was the U.S. carrier first to do so, resulting in positive feedback.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you’re saying it’s astounding that DL/UA’s product is getting so much positive press. AA’s Collins Aerospace Super Diamond has been getting positive press.

The older Zodiac seats for the 788 and select 772s have gotten bad press due to the coffin feeling and shaky seats.

AA’s 763s don’t feature PTVs, which angered many.


I flew on the Delta One Suites a few weeks ago from LAX-SYD and its easily the best business class product of any US carrier.

It is spacious, modern and very comfortable... anyone who’s flown it would say it’s easily the best product in the air when it comes to US carriers!
OVER 150 FLIGHTS PER YEAR.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2660
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:25 pm

QF744 wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
I’ve been kinda curious about this, and figured it’s better to ask this here instead of its own thread. When will American update its A321T product? Will they eventually replace this with the 321NEO?


Was actually just thinking that too... maybe a combined 1-1 F/J cabin instead of the duel cabin that’s there now?


Does AA need to update its A321T product? It's very competitive, offering 1-1 configuration first class and 2-2 business class all with lie-flat beds. It's only been out for 5 years... not necessary to change yet.

Currently AA's continuing with the Oasis seats in the neo. It doesn't seem like AA needs anymore transcon-configured planes at the moment.
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3138
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: American’s Flagship Business: What’s next?

Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:57 pm

QF744 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
Delta's business class hard product is still miles behind AA's. They just slapped a door on it to make it look better.

It's the same seat that AA has on their much-maligned 767-300s, the worst of the AA widebody business class offerings.

It's astounding that United's Polaris seat and the Delta One "suite" are getting so much positive press. It's the same antiquated Thompson Vantage XL seat, and is totally surpassed by the Zodiac and B/E offerings AA has on their 777s and 787-9s.


Have you actually tried the Delta One Suite and confirmed it’s “miles behind” AA’s?

Having a fully enclosed suite is the new trend in premium seats. DL was the U.S. carrier first to do so, resulting in positive feedback.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about when you’re saying it’s astounding that DL/UA’s product is getting so much positive press. AA’s Collins Aerospace Super Diamond has been getting positive press.

The older Zodiac seats for the 788 and select 772s have gotten bad press due to the coffin feeling and shaky seats.

AA’s 763s don’t feature PTVs, which angered many.


I flew on the Delta One Suites a few weeks ago from LAX-SYD and its easily the best business class product of any US carrier.

It is spacious, modern and very comfortable... anyone who’s flown it would say it’s easily the best product in the air when it comes to US carriers!


:rotfl: It's objectively not as spacious compared to at least two of AA's different product offerings. Modern? Sure. So are the rest. Comfortable? Well I suppose that's a subjective thing, but it's only more comfortable if you enjoy less legroom, a narrower seat, and a smaller footwell.

You can like a product and avoid the superlatives.
Cheers,
Cameron

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