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Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:36 am
by sonicruiser
Logically speaking, I think it would be a smart business decision. However, from a brand perspective, I could see why they would want to guard their name as the manufacturer of the most prestigious business jets by not jumping into the dumpster fire that is the regional jet market. Is this what keeps them from doing it or are they already doing well enough financially thanks to their (very) wealthy clients.

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:40 am
by Pudelhund
sonicruiser wrote:
Logically speaking, I think it would be a smart business decision.


Would it kill you to explain yourself in your own thread dude? This is low effort.

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:48 am
by Armadillo1
they must start from emb-123neo

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:33 am
by Fly-K
I'm not an aerospace engineer, but possibly the long-range, high cruise speed and high altitude Gulfstream business jets are not the ideal base for a lightweight regional jet. They would probably have to start from scratch.
On the other hand, Canadair did it with the Challenger.

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:54 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
When Canadair bought the Lear design, they expanded the fuselage diameter to meet a FDX requirement for a small freighter, they were a big early buyer. This change made 2-2 seating possible. Gulfstream has no such advantage, it’d be a clean sheet design with no business case.

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:25 pm
by Gulfstream500
According to Wikipedia, an 18 passenger G200 configuration is possible, with a range of 3,400 miles (only a little higher than E190’s range). This 18 passenger G200 would go for about $2.6 million for an aircraft built in 2000 (Cost per seat = 144K). A 2002 CRJ-200 would go for $4 million (cost per seat = 80K). With a cabin stretch, the cost per seat could definitely be reduced to the $80K of the CRJ.

The real question: would Gulfstream make a regional jet themselves? Probably not. But, I think that their parent company (general dynamics) would be more than happy to make a regional jet based on the G280 if the demand warrants it.

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:16 pm
by IPFreely
sonicruiser wrote:
Logically speaking, I think it would be a smart business decision.


Why?

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:49 am
by TTailedTiger
I would think there would be a demand for an economical 50 seat regional jet. Not every market can sustain larger aircraft. I think a comfortable configuration of six F seats and 44 coach would be attractive to customers.

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:29 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
So me a business case, please. Non-recurring costs, build costs, number of buyers and number of sales at a unit price that covers build plus amortizes the NRC. It’s nearly impossible to see a business case today.

Gulfstream is and has been very good at maintaining their “brand”. They build to demand, don’t flood the market, avoid large fleet sales, etc. Until the G500/600, the planes kept a very close resemblance to the the original, too.

Diluting your brand is very bad marketing in business jets, just ask BBD.

GF

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:11 pm
by VSMUT
How big/wide is the fuselage of the biggest Gulfstreams? As in how many economy style seats could you stuff in side by side? How do they compare with the CRJ, E-jet and A220 in terms of cabin?

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:23 pm
by GalaxyFlyer
A bit narrower (within 2” but a bit tighter at lower section) than the CRJ, significantly smaller than the the other two. Tight fit for 4 across. In any case, not designed as an airliner. At least, the CRJ was designed as a small FDX freighte.

GF

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:30 pm
by B777LRF
A G650 commands a price of around 70M USD. In the airline world, that kind of money will see you into an A321neo or a 737-10. In the world we live in, a brand new 50-seat jet can't sell for more than 20, if even that.

Why on earth would Gulfstream start making products of far lower value, with far lower profit margins, damaging their brand in the process? It's like asking Rolls Royce (Motor company) to build a mini bus.

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:13 pm
by bluestreak
Gulfstream did stretch the G-1 by about 10 feet to create a commuter plane. My first flying job for an airline was on the G-1 back in the 1980's.

I think Gulfstream has a good business plan, and should not get into the regional jet market. Like many have said here, it would need to be a clean sheet design, and with the 50 seat market shrinking, why bother?

I say bring back the 30 seat turbo prop. These things used to be everywhere! I suppose that market is gone as well, but I would think there would be a demand for such a plane in certain markets? I miss those days of turbo prop flying, maybe I am the only one?

Re: Should Gulfstream make regional jets?

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:41 am
by VSMUT
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
A bit narrower (within 2” but a bit tighter at lower section) than the CRJ, significantly smaller than the the other two. Tight fit for 4 across. In any case, not designed as an airliner. At least, the CRJ was designed as a small FDX freighte.

GF


Thanks.

So in other words, they can't even reuse the fuselage barrel.