x1234
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Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:50 pm

With Russia's heavily handed involvement in world affairs I was wondering if a US3 carrier might return to Moscow. Obviously the natural choice is DL with its SkyTeam involvement with SU/Aeroflot. Aeroflot now flies 3x daily from JFK to SVO. Or is the business climate that bad that the US3 is now that risk adverse!? Or is it simply more profitable at this time to send the traffic via the EU3 hubs.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:53 pm

Though... AA has OW member S7 over at DME...

Except, I don't even think they codeshare?
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:01 pm

x1234 wrote:
Obviously the natural choice is DL with its SkyTeam involvement with SU/Aeroflot. Aeroflot now flies 3x daily from JFK to SVO.


Aeroflot only flies to JFK, LAX, and IAD with JFK & LAX being Delta hubs. I would say it is not profitable at this time for Delta to fly to Moscow.

Usually the national carrier is much more motivated to come to the USA, and with such little traffic I doubt Delta will get involved.

Although with JFK-SVO 4051 nautical miles, it may be within range of the new A321XLR which will make it much more likely.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:12 pm

As far as I was able to find out, the only airline that has regular flights between Russia and the USA is Aeroflot. They serve New York JFK, Washington Dulles, Los Angeles and Miami.

If it were SkyTeam bonding between Delta and Aeroflot, you'd think they'd start it out of Atlanta. However Russia is totally unserved from Atlanta. Out of the served destinations, only New York JFK and Los Angeles are Delta hubs. Washington and Miami rely entirely on O/D traffic. I believe Delta and Aeroflot do codeshare on the flights from New York JFK and Los Angeles.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:32 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
As far as I was able to find out, the only airline that has regular flights between Russia and the USA is Aeroflot. They serve New York JFK, Washington Dulles, Los Angeles and Miami.

If it were SkyTeam bonding between Delta and Aeroflot, you'd think they'd start it out of Atlanta. However Russia is totally unserved from Atlanta. Out of the served destinations, only New York JFK and Los Angeles are Delta hubs. Washington and Miami rely entirely on O/D traffic. I believe Delta and Aeroflot do codeshare on the flights from New York JFK and Los Angeles.

Except...you forgot the back door. Yakutia serves Anchorage seasonally from Petropavlovsk-Kamtchatskiy.
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:30 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
As far as I was able to find out, the only airline that has regular flights between Russia and the USA is Aeroflot. They serve New York JFK, Washington Dulles, Los Angeles and Miami.

If it were SkyTeam bonding between Delta and Aeroflot, you'd think they'd start it out of Atlanta. However Russia is totally unserved from Atlanta. Out of the served destinations, only New York JFK and Los Angeles are Delta hubs. Washington and Miami rely entirely on O/D traffic. I believe Delta and Aeroflot do codeshare on the flights from New York JFK and Los Angeles.

Except...you forgot the back door. Yakutia serves Anchorage seasonally from Petropavlovsk-Kamtchatskiy.


What percentage of total Russia-USA traffic do you suppose that is? 1%?
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:17 pm

kjeld0d wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
As far as I was able to find out, the only airline that has regular flights between Russia and the USA is Aeroflot. They serve New York JFK, Washington Dulles, Los Angeles and Miami.

If it were SkyTeam bonding between Delta and Aeroflot, you'd think they'd start it out of Atlanta. However Russia is totally unserved from Atlanta. Out of the served destinations, only New York JFK and Los Angeles are Delta hubs. Washington and Miami rely entirely on O/D traffic. I believe Delta and Aeroflot do codeshare on the flights from New York JFK and Los Angeles.

Except...you forgot the back door. Yakutia serves Anchorage seasonally from Petropavlovsk-Kamtchatskiy.


What percentage of total Russia-USA traffic do you suppose that is? 1%?

No way. Probably .1%. But it's there, and mostly forgotten when these kind of statements are made.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:16 pm

Had DL served Moscow continuously from the 1991 Pan Am transaction until DL terminated JFK-SVO in 2017?
 
jfk777
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:06 am

When Putin is no longer President and the political enviroment becomes less heated a US3 airline would probably return.
 
Akiestar
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:50 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
I believe Delta and Aeroflot do codeshare on the flights from New York JFK and Los Angeles.


As far as I know, SU codeshares on a few DL flights (e.g. JFK-DCA), but DL doesn't codeshare on the SVO-U.S. flights. I struggled to find corresponding DL flight numbers for SU123 (JFK-SVO) and SU107 (LAX-SVO) respectively.

That said, I thought Aeroflot and Delta weren't close? I mean, as recently as five years ago, there was word of SU leaving SkyTeam because of DL.
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:07 pm

I could see a Moscow Flight but it would be on a smaller aircraft (A321XLR?) due to tensions meaning not a ton of tourists are flying. Not to mention that Russia is struggling economically their GDP is growing barely ahead of inflation meaning not a lot of up front traffic. Maybe some diplomatic traffic but not a ton.
 
Morgenstern1234
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:52 am

Can’t believe that there are 8 Chinese airlines (CZ, MU, CA,HU, 3U, tianjin airlines, Lucky Air and beijing capital airlines ) flying to Moscow this summer and even 2 (CZ and MU) to Saint Petersburg but no US airlines flying to Russia from the United States.
 
Morgenstern1234
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:53 am

Delta can even fill up an aircraft flying to places like Nigeria and Ghana but not one of the largest cities in Europe Moscow ...?
 
luckyone
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:35 am

Morgenstern1234 wrote:
Delta can even fill up an aircraft flying to places like Nigeria and Ghana but not one of the largest cities in Europe Moscow ...?

They can fill it. But can they fill it profitably? Political tensions, and more importantly the price of oil, have kept high dollar traffic off the route. Purely anecdotal, but when I flew ATL-SVO in 2008 it was mostly young families going to see babushka. I can’t imagine that will keep a route going with price-conscious families happy to connect elsewhere than on DL. SU is also flying SVO-JFK three times daily. Their financials indicate aren’t making much if any money doing it, but being majority-owned by the Russian government they may fly it for more reasons than profit. There are certainly large numbers moving between NYC and Moscow, and SU’s service is reported to be good, and they have home airline advantage.
 
bhxalex
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:47 am

The point of sale for US-Russia flights I believe is weighted on the Russian side. It's no secret SU offer very cheap connections from the CIS region, eastern and even central Europe via SVO to North America, where again the point of sale is mostly that side or where SU are the only viable one stop option.

Until relations thaw and business between them picks up, there's no chance a US carrier will open Moscow. Demand is there undoubtedly, and SU take care of it well, but yields are not sufficient for a US carrier. In terms of US3 hubs, anything aside from NYC would require two frames for a daily flight, and the yields are no way near close to justifying that.
 
Morgenstern1234
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:07 am

Actually heard that Saint Petersburg-New York is a really big unserved market market, LED can get direct east Asia (Seoul shanghai Beijing Chengdu Xian
) especially during summer season but no New York...? Maybe delta could fly there during the summer season...
 
triple3driver
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:39 am

Not until our krasavchik leaves office, likely a year or so after that, so either way we're definitely waiting until the 2020s arrive. Obviously DL will be the first to do so, Skyteam and Skyteam, I'm sure all of us miss the approaches, especially in the winter.
If you can walk away from it intact, it was a good landing!
 
triple3driver
Posts: 130
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Re: Will a US3 carrier return to Moscow!?

Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:42 am

Morgenstern1234 wrote:
Actually heard that Saint Petersburg-New York is a really big unserved market market, LED can get direct east Asia (Seoul shanghai Beijing Chengdu Xian
) especially during summer season but no New York...? Maybe delta could fly there during the summer season...

Wasn't St. Petersburg to New York Baltia's original plane? :scratchchin: I don't see much going on there in the future though, Aeroflot doesn't have much activity and it's unlikely any of the 3 US carriers will want to dip their feet in such an unfamiliar market
If you can walk away from it intact, it was a good landing!

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