Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
ArchGuy1
Topic Author
Posts: 1385
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:25 pm

Did Pam Am and TWA ever have direct flights from New York City to Istanbul without any plane change. I do know that Turkish Airlines did not start flights from Istanbul to New York City until 1988 and even then with a stop in Brussels without a plane change. Turkish started it's non-stop flights from Istanbul to New York in 1994.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:28 pm

Delta, which bought Pan Am's TATL route network in 1991 operated to IST in two different ways. In the 1990s, it flew to IST via FRA (FRA-IST was operated on a 757), and then it went nonstop for a time, then seasonal (summer), on a 767-300ER before being axed in 2015, and has not returned since.

TWA I believe did operate at one point to IST, via another European city.

Pan Am did too, presumably via FRA but I don't recall exactly and whether that was supplemented with a nonstop.
 
globalflyer
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:15 am

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:45 pm

I never knew DL had 757s based in FRA? PA110 was JFK-FCO-IST-THR when I flew it on a 747-100 in the 1970s.
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
 
panamair
Posts: 4279
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:05 pm

At some point during Pan Am’s round the world service (PA001/PA002), IST was a regular stop so there was same plane 747 service to/from IST and JFK but with at least two stops (FRA and LHR). Later after the RTW service was abandoned, Pan Am continued operating to IST but always with a change-in-gauge at a European point (usually FRA) to a smaller plane to IST. For a short period, the routing was JFK-ZRH-GVA-IST with a 747 between JFK and ZRH and then a 727 for ZRH-GVA-IST but most of the time it was JFK-FRA on a 747 and then FRA-IST on a 727 or even an A310 at one point.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:27 pm

globalflyer wrote:
I never knew DL had 757s based in FRA? PA110 was JFK-FCO-IST-THR when I flew it on a 747-100 in the 1970s.


I think the 757 may have been for a year or two only (I flew it in 1997). At the time, FRA was a hub/focus city for DL, inherited from the PA days. It was very much gone by the early 2000s.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24506
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:32 pm

TWA always had a change of gauge in Europe, but Pan Am during both 707 and 747 days had equipment continue to IST (and Ankara for a period) that originated in the U.S.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
questions
Posts: 2338
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:40 pm

Did the growth of TK kill DL’s JFK-IST? Or were the yields never there and therefore DL preferred to route traffic to IST through AMS and CDG?
 
BN747
Posts: 7811
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:40 pm

I do hold video clips of Pan Am 707 & 747 at Istanbul Yesiloy, but nothing from TWA (yet).

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:42 pm

questions wrote:
Did the growth of TK kill DL’s JFK-IST? Or were the yields never there and therefore DL preferred to route traffic to IST through AMS and CDG?


DL axed the JFK-IST route following the attack at Attaturk Airport a few years back, but yes, TK likely had an impact on it. UA also few EWR-IST in the summer of 2013 and that route was also axed.
 
ArchGuy1
Topic Author
Posts: 1385
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:45 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
questions wrote:
Did the growth of TK kill DL’s JFK-IST? Or were the yields never there and therefore DL preferred to route traffic to IST through AMS and CDG?


DL axed the JFK-IST route following the attack at Attaturk Airport a few years back, but yes, TK likely had an impact on it. UA also few EWR-IST in the summer of 2013 and that route was also axed.

The Ataturk Airport attack took place in June 2016.
 
ArchGuy1
Topic Author
Posts: 1385
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:51 pm

LAXintl wrote:
TWA always had a change of gauge in Europe, but Pan Am during both 707 and 747 days had equipment continue to IST (and Ankara for a period) that originated in the U.S.

Did Pan Am operate one stop flights without a plane change from New York JFK to Istanbul.
 
N649DL
Posts: 920
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:10 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
globalflyer wrote:
I never knew DL had 757s based in FRA? PA110 was JFK-FCO-IST-THR when I flew it on a 747-100 in the 1970s.


I think the 757 may have been for a year or two only (I flew it in 1997). At the time, FRA was a hub/focus city for DL, inherited from the PA days. It was very much gone by the early 2000s.


1997 was the last year DL had a focus city in FRA. Are you sure it was a 757 and not a 727, 762 or 763? If so, that's pretty fascinating considering they kept 757s around for this particular flight as DL didn't do 757s on TATL back then.

IIRC, DL flew JFK-IST for quite a few years on 763 and perhaps even the M11 in the late 1990s and early 2000s. There was also a big push in 2008 where DL was flying everywhere promoting themselves as the official airline of NYC and flew nonstop to IST and even places like Kiev and Budapest for a short while. In the late 1990s DL was rather consistent on flying JFK-TLV/CAI/IST but my memory is hazy.

I also was booked on the short lived EWR-IST with UA in Summer 2012 but that sadly got cancelled as the ex-GF went there and I moved back to LAX.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:18 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
questions wrote:
Did the growth of TK kill DL’s JFK-IST? Or were the yields never there and therefore DL preferred to route traffic to IST through AMS and CDG?


DL axed the JFK-IST route following the attack at Attaturk Airport a few years back, but yes, TK likely had an impact on it. UA also few EWR-IST in the summer of 2013 and that route was also axed.

The Ataturk Airport attack took place in June 2016.


Well that is what caused Delta to pull the route. It cancelled the planned start and it never came back.
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:32 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Delta, which bought Pan Am's TATL route network in 1991 operated to IST in two different ways. In the 1990s, it flew to IST via FRA (FRA-IST was operated on a 757), and then it went nonstop for a time, then seasonal (summer), on a 767-300ER before being axed in 2015, and has not returned since.

TWA I believe did operate at one point to IST, via another European city.

Pan Am did too, presumably via FRA but I don't recall exactly and whether that was supplemented with a nonstop.


I'm pretty sure Delta never flew the 757 within Europe. 727s flew the intra European flying. JFK-IST was mostly on the 763 (DL72/73). There were a few summers towards the end where the A330 flew JFK-IST.

Delta and United are the only US airlines who have flown nonstop to IST from the US. I think UA only flew EWR-IST during the Summer 2012 on the 763.

October 1996
Delta IST-FRA 727-200 Daily

January 1989
Pan Am IST-FRA 727-200 4x a week
Pan Am IST-FRA 727-200 3x a week
TWA IST-FRA 727-100 x4 a week

February 1987
Pan Am IST-GVA 727-200 Daily

1985
Pan Am IST-FRA 727-200 Daily

July 1983
Pan Am IST-FRA 737-200 5x a week

September 1982
Pan Am IST-DXB 747 x3 a week
Pan Am IST-FRA 747 Daily
Pan Am IST-KHI 747 3x a week

April 1980
Pan Am IST-FCO 707 Daily

April 1979
Pan Am IST-FCO 727 Daily
Pan Am IST-OTP 727 2x a week

April 1973
Pan Am IST-BEY 747 Daily
Pan Am IST-FRA 747 Daily
Pan Am IST-FCO 707 x3 a week
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:16 am

[twoid][/twoid]
Cointrin330 wrote:
globalflyer wrote:
I never knew DL had 757s based in FRA? PA110 was JFK-FCO-IST-THR when I flew it on a 747-100 in the 1970s.


I think the 757 may have been for a year or two only (I flew it in 1997). At the time, FRA was a hub/focus city for DL, inherited from the PA days. It was very much gone by the early 2000s.


It was either a 727 or a 762 (1995-1996) for FRA intra Europe flying. That 767 flying was a fun bid, especially if you were the IRO. ER over into FRA. Layover. One or two days of intra Europe flying on the 762, layover. And back out on the ER.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:20 am

catiii wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Cointrin330 wrote:
globalflyer wrote:
I never knew DL had 757s based in FRA? PA110 was JFK-FCO-IST-THR when I flew it on a 747-100 in the 1970s.


I think the 757 may have been for a year or two only (I flew it in 1997). At the time, FRA was a hub/focus city for DL, inherited from the PA days. It was very much gone by the early 2000s.


It was either a 727 or a 762 (1995-1996) for FRA intra Europe flying. That 767 flying was a fun bid, especially if you were the IRO. ER over into FRA. Layover. One or two days of intra Europe flying on the 762, layover. And back out on the ER.


Nope, it was a 757.
 
catiii
Posts: 3515
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:56 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
catiii wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
Cointrin330 wrote:

I think the 757 may have been for a year or two only (I flew it in 1997). At the time, FRA was a hub/focus city for DL, inherited from the PA days. It was very much gone by the early 2000s.


It was either a 727 or a 762 (1995-1996) for FRA intra Europe flying. That 767 flying was a fun bid, especially if you were the IRO. ER over into FRA. Layover. One or two days of intra Europe flying on the 762, layover. And back out on the ER.


Nope, it was a 757.


DL never had the 757s in FRA at that time. It couldn't have been. They did put the 762s there for 2 summers.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2512
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:03 am

I can vouch for the Delta European operations and I can wholeheartedly agree with others on the fact that Delta never based the B757 at FRA on intra European flying...period!

After the takeover of the former Pan Am hub at Frankfurt by Delta in 1991 they took control of the former PA B732's and the airline continued to operate these on the former PA intra European flights along with the A310, there were never any based B757's.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2581
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:19 pm

questions wrote:
Did the growth of TK kill DL’s JFK-IST? Or were the yields never there and therefore DL preferred to route traffic to IST through AMS and CDG?


As I recall the US State Department was advising all US flagged airlines to leave IST at that time. This was about a year before the IST airport terminal suicide bombing and the attempted coup.
 
User avatar
TK787
Posts: 4467
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Pan Am and TWA to Istanbul

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:33 pm

I also flew DL IST-FRA first week of October 1995 and it was a 727.
I know because my seatmate on the Business Class that day was the US goalie Brad Friedel. At the time he was playing for my home team Galatasaray and he was going to DC for the USA-Saudia Arabia friendly game on Oct 8th, 1995. US won 4-3 :)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos