backseatdriver
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HNL-LON Nonstop?

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:31 pm

Has anyone ever offered n/s HNL-LON service? Has Hawaiian (or BA, or anyone) ever considered it?
 
x1234
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:35 pm

No as Hawaii is generally a low yield market. There is substantial business demand though for LHR-SYD and JFK-SYD though and one could make the case for that but that would be connecting traffic and HA would have higher costs than the established Asian/Middle East competitors in the case of LHR-SYD and HA for some reason doesn't have their JFK & BOS flights connect to SYD west-bound. J class on JFK-SYD via LAX or SFO go for as high as $10-15k round-trip.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:37 pm

No operations nonstop. There are endless threads on HNL-London/Europe but Western Airlines operated a short-lived HNL-ANC-LGW service at one point in the early 80's. A named service called "The Londoner" IRRC.
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Cunard
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:36 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
No operations nonstop. There are endless threads on HNL-London/Europe but Western Airlines operated a short-lived HNL-ANC-LGW service at one point in the early 80's. A named service called "The Londoner" IRRC.


Western Airlines operated a short lived direct same plane service between HNL-ANC-LGW from April 1981 till October 1982. It operated twice weekly on a Thursday and a Sunday with DC10-10 equipment.

Western Airlines operated a non stop flight from DEN to LGW from June 1981 to October 1982 five times weekly with DC10-30 equipment.

Western Airlines Denver Stapleton Airport to London Gatwick Airport route was advertised as ''The Londoner'' not the Honolulu route.

During the period in which Western Airlines operated transatlantic to LGW from both HNL and DEN the airline operated upto 7 flights a week to the London airport. On Thursday's and Sunday's during the early afternoon there were two Western Airlines DC10's scheduled to be on the ground together at LGW and often at adjoining gates on pier 2 as the DEN arrival was about 12.00 and the HNL arrival was about 14.00.

I have to say that this topic comes up sooooo much here on a.net and just a quick search will open up many previous discussions with the exact same replies. I've lost count how many times that I have quoted Western Airlines HNL-ANC-LGW on these forums!
Last edited by Cunard on Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LX015
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:42 pm

Isn't HNL-Europe the whole reason Hawaiian had ordered the A358 then got switched to the A338 then ultimately decided on the 787? (I forgot which version, 8 or 9)
 
Max Q
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:55 pm

I think there’s a very good chance HA will operate this route with the 787, and other European cities
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TWA772LR
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:25 am

Hawaii is pretty low yielding, but I believe there is probably enough premium rich person vacation demand to warrant a 2-3x weekly nonstop to London. It's not like Hawaii is a backwater hidden gem.
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mdavies06
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:38 am

 
backseatdriver
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:45 am

Cunard wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
I have to say that this topic comes up sooooo much here on a.net and just a quick search will open up many previous discussions with the exact same replies. I've lost count how many times that I have quoted Western Airlines HNL-ANC-LGW on these forums!


I actually did try to search this topic using the circa-1995 search engine they have on this site and only came up with a bunch of ancillary conversations. Guess I wasn't using the right search terms. In any case, I appreciate the insight.
 
voxkel
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:58 am

Europe has the Canaries and Balearic islands, and many other Mediterranean destinations. This is essentially the same thing as asking for JFK-LPA nonstop.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:44 am

x1234 wrote:
No as Hawaii is generally a low yield market. There is substantial business demand though for LHR-SYD and JFK-SYD though and one could make the case for that but that would be connecting traffic and HA would have higher costs than the established Asian/Middle East competitors in the case of LHR-SYD and HA for some reason doesn't have their JFK & BOS flights connect to SYD west-bound. J class on JFK-SYD via LAX or SFO go for as high as $10-15k round-trip.


Seems like a missed opportunity not linking the east coast cities to the Sydney flight, although how much longer would the flights be as opposed to transferring via LAX or SFO? One attraction for such a HAL connection would be a free stopover in HNL, though business travelers probably wouldn't be too interested in this option (I would be though!)
 
westgate
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:54 am

voxkel wrote:
Europe has the Canaries and Balearic islands, and many other Mediterranean destinations. This is essentially the same thing as asking for JFK-LPA nonstop.


This is true and the Canaries are indeed somewhat similar to Hawaii, however many British travellers fly all the way to Australia just for a beach holiday as well, and will only visit Sydney for example.

I would honestly think a flight that operated maybe 2 or 3 times a week from either LHR or LGW on BA, VS, MT or BY could probably work, but it certainly would be the longest predominantly leisure route from the UK. I would assume the reason why no one has tried it yet is because it would tie up too much equipment that would likely make more money elsewhere, such as to the Canaries, Florida or the Carribbean etc.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:03 am

x1234 wrote:
No as Hawaii is generally a low yield market. There is substantial business demand though for LHR-SYD and JFK-SYD though and one could make the case for that but that would be connecting traffic and HA would have higher costs than the established Asian/Middle East competitors in the case of LHR-SYD and HA for some reason doesn't have their JFK & BOS flights connect to SYD west-bound. J class on JFK-SYD via LAX or SFO go for as high as $10-15k round-trip.


Seems like a missed opportunity not linking the east coast cities to the Sydney flight, although how much longer would the flights be as opposed to transferring via LAX or SFO? One attraction for such a HAL connection would be a free stopover in HNL, though business travelers probably wouldn't be too interested in this option (I would be though!)
 
MalevTU134
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:13 am

voxkel wrote:
Europe has the Canaries and Balearic islands, and many other Mediterranean destinations. This is essentially the same thing as asking for JFK-LPA nonstop.

Or rather JFK-MRU (as in Mauritius) for the distance. (My point being that LON-HNL is more than twice the distance compared to NYC-LPA.)
 
ooslc
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:32 am

I think HA will do a 3-4x a week London if they can get a slot. My 2 cents.
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RushmoreAir
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:34 am

JAAlbert wrote:
x1234 wrote:
No as Hawaii is generally a low yield market. There is substantial business demand though for LHR-SYD and JFK-SYD though and one could make the case for that but that would be connecting traffic and HA would have higher costs than the established Asian/Middle East competitors in the case of LHR-SYD and HA for some reason doesn't have their JFK & BOS flights connect to SYD west-bound. J class on JFK-SYD via LAX or SFO go for as high as $10-15k round-trip.


Seems like a missed opportunity not linking the east coast cities to the Sydney flight, although how much longer would the flights be as opposed to transferring via LAX or SFO? One attraction for such a HAL connection would be a free stopover in HNL, though business travelers probably wouldn't be too interested in this option (I would be though!)



Because of the time zones, there's no way to make the JFK/BOS-SYD connection work round-trip without busting the curfew in SYD and/or overnighting a plane there, or conversely leaving at some ungodly hour out of the East Coast (bad for local pax).
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PhilMcCrackin
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:24 am

JAAlbert wrote:
x1234 wrote:
No as Hawaii is generally a low yield market. There is substantial business demand though for LHR-SYD and JFK-SYD though and one could make the case for that but that would be connecting traffic and HA would have higher costs than the established Asian/Middle East competitors in the case of LHR-SYD and HA for some reason doesn't have their JFK & BOS flights connect to SYD west-bound. J class on JFK-SYD via LAX or SFO go for as high as $10-15k round-trip.


Seems like a missed opportunity not linking the east coast cities to the Sydney flight, although how much longer would the flights be as opposed to transferring via LAX or SFO? One attraction for such a HAL connection would be a free stopover in HNL, though business travelers probably wouldn't be too interested in this option (I would be though!)


I would wager most people would rather take an evening flight out of JFK to connect to a red-eye in LAX, SFO, or DFW, than take one really long day flight that leaves early in the morning out of JFK and connecting half way through in HNL.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:09 am

Cunard wrote:

Western Airlines Denver Stapleton Airport to London Gatwick Airport route was advertised as ''The Londoner'' not the Honolulu route.


OK. Right name, wrong route. Not completely senile yet! :old:
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PatrickZ80
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:12 pm

ooslc wrote:
I think HA will do a 3-4x a week London if they can get a slot. My 2 cents.


There are slots available in London, however it depends on what airport.

Heathrow is out of the question of course, the airport is more than full. Some airlines have been on the waiting list for slots at Heathrow for over 10 years. Slots at Heathrow, although expensive, are one of the most valuable assets an airline can have. They don't give them up so easily. Gatwick still has a few slots available in the off-hours, but not a lot. It's quite tight and at peak times Gatwick is just as full as Heathrow.

Where the slots are available is Stansted. Other than Heathrow and Gatwick, Stansted is the only other London airport that is capable of handling long haul flights. At Stansted, slots are a whole lot easier to get than at Heathrow or Gatwick. But would Hawaiian fly to Stansted?

Luton, Southend and City aren't capable of handling flights to Hawaii, even though Southend is the only London airport that isn't slot controlled.
 
Lpbri
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:51 am

Did BOAC serve HNL in the 70s? I saw an episode of Hawaii-five-0 with a BOAC 707 in the background at HNL.
 
Kent350787
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:40 am

JAAlbert wrote:
Seems like a missed opportunity not linking the east coast cities to the Sydney flight, although how much longer would the flights be as opposed to transferring via LAX or SFO? One attraction for such a HAL connection would be a free stopover in HNL, though business travelers probably wouldn't be too interested in this option (I would be though!)


It is interesting. Given that HNL is almost exactly halfway by distance between BOS/NYC and SYD you'd think it could work. That said, there is much better product than HA on most other routes.
 
Zortan
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:51 am

HNL is so low-yield it's just way easier to connect through LAX or SFO, etc.
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Aptivaboy
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:05 pm

Did BOAC serve HNL in the 70s? I saw an episode of Hawaii-five-0 with a BOAC 707 in the background at HNL.


I have seen videos on Youtube of BOAC birds at HNL in the sixties and/or early seventies but I'm not sure if HNL was the end destination or just a stop on the way to Australia or New Zealand, for example.

EDIT: never mind, I found these:

https://www.nytimes.com/1971/06/05/arch ... rvice.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUm9aG-xiBk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efmyLq1aBKI

So yes, they did serve HNL at one point.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: HNL-LON Nonstop?

Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:44 pm

LX015 wrote:
Isn't HNL-Europe the whole reason Hawaiian had ordered the A358 then got switched to the A338 then ultimately decided on the 787? (I forgot which version, 8 or 9)

I believe they originally ordered the A358 because it seemed like the natural successor to the 763 and A332, capacity-wise. I'm sure Airbus incentivized a conversion to the A338 because they didn't want to produce the A358 for just one customer. Then an asteroid hit and Hawaiian decided on the B789 for their long-haul future. But to answer your question, no I don't believe European service was ever a prime motivator for the new aircraft purchase.
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