DutchBoeing
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:48 pm

TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:32 am

Two days ago I flew TGD to IST in Business on TK. Wasn't great. First of all, the seating was the standard EU practice of Economy Class seats with the middle seat empty. Not a long flight, so not the end of the world, but it wasn't what I expected and what I am used to on TK. I quite specifically chose TK because they have better seats, otherwise I could also have chosen i.e. Austrian via VIE to go home. I hope this will not be standard TK practice from now on? Is this new? Will more flights now have the 3-3 with middle seat blocked?

Anyway, that most certainly was not my biggest problem with that flight. My biggest complaint was that the cabin was literally not cleaned and serviced AT ALL from the previous flight. I came in and the rubbish of the previous pax on our seats was still there, the seat belts were hanging loose next to the seat, the seats were not in their most upright position, the pillows were stuffed half under the table in between both seats and the armrests were half up. I asked the cabin chief about it and she simply said the whole plane was unserviced, no apology or explanation. I know it doesn't affect safety or anything, but it did feel rather 'unwelcome' onboard, like TK didn't care about their customers (and their opinions) at all! TK is quite a professional airline, so it highly surprised me that they would dispatch a completely uncleaned plane. The flight was not late, on time and not overbooked or something. Just a standard flight at midday. Nothing weird that would warrant leaving asap.

I fly a lot (multiple times monthly for years) and simply never have boarded an airplane where not at least some basic tidying up had been done. Again, the seats are one thing, but a completely uncleaned / unserviced plane is something else. Does this happen more often on TK? Did anybody experience this on other airlines? Again, I know it is not the end of the world, but just so surprising from TK...
 
dredgy
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:40 am

Eh it happens. A lot. I once found a soiled diaper was wedged between the seats on a Qantas flight (usually they're very good with a clean cabin).
But I'm always finding unused rubbish on many airlines I've flown and usually have good experiences. Sometimes cleaners miss things or sometimes the cabin doesn't get done at all for some reason.
 
DutchBoeing
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:43 am

dredgy wrote:
Eh it happens. A lot. I once found a soiled diaper was wedged between the seats on a Qantas flight (usually they're very good with a clean cabin).
But I'm always finding unused rubbish on many airlines I've flown and usually have good experiences. Sometimes cleaners miss things or sometimes the cabin doesn't get done at all for some reason.


Of course I understand cleaners sometimes miss something, but at least you notice they have been! Here it was very obvious nobody had been... I would expect the crew to at least tidy up the Business Class a little bit. I would also understand it if there was some sort of operational disruption, but there was none.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:55 am

You wouldn't believe how tightly airlines schedule turnarounds and the various tasks to be accomplished during them.

Cabins cleaners have literally a handful of seconds to clean each seat. They're good at their jobs and know where the rubbish usually lies, but they work very hard and can miss stuff, especially if the flight is late and the ground staff is pushing to board as early as possible.

Watching a widebody getting cleaned in mere minutes by a small and frantic army of cleaners after all pax are off is actually an impressive sight. The word 'beehive' comes to mind.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
DutchBoeing
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:00 pm

I get they have little time normally, but the purser / cabin chief confirmed the plane had simply not been cleaned.
 
Blerg
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:14 pm

I am not too surprised as they tend to be inconsistent.
 
FatCat
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:15 pm

My wife had a chewing gum sticked on her buttock after our latest FR flight PSA-FUE. But hey, it's FR, what can you do
Aeroplane flies high
Turns left, looks right
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:16 pm

DutchBoeing wrote:
Two days ago I flew TGD to IST in Business on TK. Wasn't great. First of all, the seating was the standard EU practice of Economy Class seats with the middle seat empty. Not a long flight, so not the end of the world, but it wasn't what I expected and what I am used to on TK. I quite specifically chose TK because they have better seats, otherwise I could also have chosen i.e. Austrian via VIE to go home. I hope this will not be standard TK practice from now on? Is this new? Will more flights now have the 3-3 with middle seat blocked?.


Wait, you've been on a.net for 9 years and you did not know this? And you were surprised? did you not see it during the booking process and seat selection process?
TK has both business class types on their narrow bodies. I'd expect to find the better seats only on longer routes, or heavy business routes.
Just by looking at this page it shows that the 737-900ER is the only NB type in their fleet where all aircraft are equipped with the better seats in Business. Every other type is mix and match. They even have a subfleet of single class 737's.
https://seatguru.com/airlines/Turkish_A ... mation.php
 
stylo777
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:25 pm

simply answer: no, they are usually great in cleaning; however, I'm not sure where you are heading with this?
it shouldn't happen, but it does. this time it was your unlucky draw, very unfortunate indeed and simply not acceptable. On the other hand ask the question to yourself since you are saying that you are used to better service by TK and for this reason have chosen them. Did you experience the same on your previous TK flights? Probably not; therefore, someting extraordinary must have happened that day. Could be tight schedule, crew duty times, slots, weather, ground handling strike, pretty much anything...
I strongly suggest you to put a checkmark behind that flight since all airlines do care about their passengers and their cabins (on different levels of course), but I'm quite certain that none would accept a scenario as such in normal situations.
 
DutchBoeing
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Posts: 131
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:36 pm

airbazar wrote:
DutchBoeing wrote:
Two days ago I flew TGD to IST in Business on TK. Wasn't great. First of all, the seating was the standard EU practice of Economy Class seats with the middle seat empty. Not a long flight, so not the end of the world, but it wasn't what I expected and what I am used to on TK. I quite specifically chose TK because they have better seats, otherwise I could also have chosen i.e. Austrian via VIE to go home. I hope this will not be standard TK practice from now on? Is this new? Will more flights now have the 3-3 with middle seat blocked?.


Wait, you've been on a.net for 9 years and you did not know this? And you were surprised? did you not see it during the booking process and seat selection process?
TK has both business class types on their narrow bodies. I'd expect to find the better seats only on longer routes, or heavy business routes.
Just by looking at this page it shows that the 737-900ER is the only NB type in their fleet where all aircraft are equipped with the better seats in Business. Every other type is mix and match. They even have a subfleet of single class 737's.
https://seatguru.com/airlines/Turkish_A ... mation.php


Well, clearly I was surprised, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up! Yes, I am a member of a.net for 9 years (appearently), but what does that matter? I don't recall a thread about seating on TK. On all my other TK flights on board B738 / A321's (and wide bodies of course), I only ever had a 2-2 configuration. I can't actually believe they would be so inconsistent with their product, but clearly they are. I always thought that their EU-flights would be on par with SU, but Aeroflot clearly wins! What an excellent and consistant airline that is... (really, no irony! ;-) ).
 
leghorn
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:37 pm

FatCat wrote:
My wife had a chewing gum sticked on her buttock after our latest FR flight PSA-FUE. But hey, it's FR, what can you do

There are two things Ryanair could do to instantly improve the experience on the plane:
A battery powered vacuum cleaner used for less than 2 minutes by one member of cabin crew between flights to hoover up crumbs.
Use prerecorded messages for safety announcements rather than listening to a member of crew with pigeon English.
 
DutchBoeing
Topic Author
Posts: 131
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:41 pm

Blerg wrote:
I am not too surprised as they tend to be inconsistent.


Thank you. I am starting to find that out myself - not just with this flight. I have flown a few times with them lately, to see how they compare to Aeroflot, which I also use a lot. As SVO is a bit out of the way for the destinations I generally go to, I am trying to see if TK can 'take over' the role of my preferred airline. However, so far, I must admit, Aeroflot wins hands down. I have had a few great flights on TK (B789 IST-AMS in Business), but also less nice ones. And now I know about their seating, seems to me I am going back to SU... ;-)
 
airbazar
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:31 pm

DutchBoeing wrote:
Well, clearly I was surprised, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up! Yes, I am a member of a.net for 9 years (appearently), but what does that matter?

It matters because it means you have some sort of familiarity with the airline industry and basic online tools to see what kind of seat you are getting before you actually get on the plane.

But now I see what your real intent was for starting this thread. I give you kuddos for the subtlety in promoting your airline.

"I always thought that their EU-flights would be on par with SU, but Aeroflot clearly wins! What an excellent and consistant airline that is"
"Aeroflot wins hands down"
"seems to me I am going back to SU"
 
Blerg
Posts: 2041
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:56 pm

DutchBoeing wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I am not too surprised as they tend to be inconsistent.


Thank you. I am starting to find that out myself - not just with this flight. I have flown a few times with them lately, to see how they compare to Aeroflot, which I also use a lot. As SVO is a bit out of the way for the destinations I generally go to, I am trying to see if TK can 'take over' the role of my preferred airline. However, so far, I must admit, Aeroflot wins hands down. I have had a few great flights on TK (B789 IST-AMS in Business), but also less nice ones. And now I know about their seating, seems to me I am going back to SU... ;-)


TK has been rapidly growing so maybe they are struggling to keep the same standard as before. Aeroflot is a large airline but their growth has been slower and more concise. TK seems to be expanding left and right with more and more planes coming in all the time.
 
DutchBoeing
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Posts: 131
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:40 pm

airbazar wrote:
DutchBoeing wrote:
Well, clearly I was surprised, otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up! Yes, I am a member of a.net for 9 years (appearently), but what does that matter?

It matters because it means you have some sort of familiarity with the airline industry and basic online tools to see what kind of seat you are getting before you actually get on the plane.

But now I see what your real intent was for starting this thread. I give you kuddos for the subtlety in promoting your airline.

"I always thought that their EU-flights would be on par with SU, but Aeroflot clearly wins! What an excellent and consistant airline that is"
"Aeroflot wins hands down"
"seems to me I am going back to SU"


I know it seems that way, but sorry, no, I don't work for SU. Just a fan!
 
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qf789
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:51 pm

DutchBoeing wrote:

Anyway, that most certainly was not my biggest problem with that flight. My biggest complaint was that the cabin was literally not cleaned and serviced AT ALL from the previous flight. I came in and the rubbish of the previous pax on our seats was still there, the seat belts were hanging loose next to the seat, the seats were not in their most upright position, the pillows were stuffed half under the table in between both seats and the armrests were half up. I asked the cabin chief about it and she simply said the whole plane was unserviced, no apology or explanation. I know it doesn't affect safety or anything, but it did feel rather 'unwelcome' onboard, like TK didn't care about their customers (and their opinions) at all! TK is quite a professional airline, so it highly surprised me that they would dispatch a completely uncleaned plane. The flight was not late, on time and not overbooked or something. Just a standard flight at midday. Nothing weird that would warrant leaving asap.

I fly a lot (multiple times monthly for years) and simply never have boarded an airplane where not at least some basic tidying up had been done. Again, the seats are one thing, but a completely uncleaned / unserviced plane is something else. Does this happen more often on TK? Did anybody experience this on other airlines? Again, I know it is not the end of the world, but just so surprising from TK...



DutchBoeing wrote:
dredgy wrote:
Eh it happens. A lot. I once found a soiled diaper was wedged between the seats on a Qantas flight (usually they're very good with a clean cabin).
But I'm always finding unused rubbish on many airlines I've flown and usually have good experiences. Sometimes cleaners miss things or sometimes the cabin doesn't get done at all for some reason.


Of course I understand cleaners sometimes miss something, but at least you notice they have been! Here it was very obvious nobody had been... I would expect the crew to at least tidy up the Business Class a little bit. I would also understand it if there was some sort of operational disruption, but there was none.


As someone like myself who is on an aircraft cleaning team operationally/supervisor a few things need to be pointed out. Firstly simply don't blame the cleaners as with a lot of airlines cabin crew actually prepare the cabin on short turns. The airline I work for, any flight with a turn under 120 minutes it clearly states in the cleaning specifications for the 737, cleaners do not perform any cleaning tasks, its what is referred to as a clean assist where the "cleaners" bring on fresh supplies including linen for business class, new toilet kit, hygiene kit, new batteries for vacuum, DFAK kit stockup of required, new biohazard kit. Though we are not required to we also clean the toilets plus remove all the bags of rubbish onboard. When we board the aircraft we must be on and off in 5 minutes.

You say there was no operation disruption, how do you know this, where you on this aircraft before boarding, did you know what was happening on other aircraft which may have held up the cleaning team responsible for serving this flight, were all the other aircraft arriving on time, did AMCO request adhoc cleaning for another aircraft, do you know all this as I would be interested to know. If the answer is no then you simply can not come to the conclusion there was no operational disruptions at the time

At the end of the day the most important thing is OTP. Sure sometimes aircraft go out not looking their best presentation wise but when you are racing against the clock OTP takes priority. If we occur a delay not only do we miss the takeoff slot the airline is billed at $1000 a minute for use of the gate

Francoflier wrote:
You wouldn't believe how tightly airlines schedule turnarounds and the various tasks to be accomplished during them.

Cabins cleaners have literally a handful of seconds to clean each seat. They're good at their jobs and know where the rubbish usually lies, but they work very hard and can miss stuff, especially if the flight is late and the ground staff is pushing to board as early as possible.

Watching a widebody getting cleaned in mere minutes by a small and frantic army of cleaners after all pax are off is actually an impressive sight. The word 'beehive' comes to mind.


Yes you are correct, on our A330's we are normally given 20 minutes to prepare aircraft though have done it in 10 minutes with 6 people, that day we were also working against the clock as the flight had already be given allowance to arrive in SYD 12 minutes after the curfew, if it had gone out any later the flight would have had to be cancelled

DutchBoeing wrote:
I get they have little time normally, but the purser / cabin chief confirmed the plane had simply not been cleaned.


Ultimately its up to the Cabin Supervisor to make the call if the aircraft is ready or not, if it isn't they can always call for assistance. It does come across that the cabin supervisor was covering their own backside

stylo777 wrote:
simply answer: no, they are usually great in cleaning; however, I'm not sure where you are heading with this?
it shouldn't happen, but it does. this time it was your unlucky draw, very unfortunate indeed and simply not acceptable. On the other hand ask the question to yourself since you are saying that you are used to better service by TK and for this reason have chosen them. Did you experience the same on your previous TK flights? Probably not; therefore, someting extraordinary must have happened that day. Could be tight schedule, crew duty times, slots, weather, ground handling strike, pretty much anything...
I strongly suggest you to put a checkmark behind that flight since all airlines do care about their passengers and their cabins (on different levels of course), but I'm quite certain that none would accept a scenario as such in normal situations.


On a 35-45 minute turn there is not much room for allowances, delays can occur for numerous reasons including upline delay, catering, FTB, wheelchairs, weather, technical etc

leghorn wrote:
FatCat wrote:
My wife had a chewing gum sticked on her buttock after our latest FR flight PSA-FUE. But hey, it's FR, what can you do

There are two things Ryanair could do to instantly improve the experience on the plane:
A battery powered vacuum cleaner used for less than 2 minutes by one member of cabin crew between flights to hoover up crumbs.
Use prerecorded messages for safety announcements rather than listening to a member of crew with pigeon English.


A vacuum cleaner isnt going to remove chewing gum from a seat. Typically airlines will have at least 1 vacuum on board if not 2
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Avgeek21
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:24 pm

I've had the 'pleasure' as a Captain of ordering the cabin crew to NOT clean the aircraft and NOT to let the cleaners on board and instead only do their secutiry checks and board the passengers for the return. But this was due to a serious safety risk affecting the airport and we needed to depart yesterday. And yes, I made an apologetic PA after takeoff and I instructed the cabin crew to tell the truth when asked by passengers.
 
Sokes
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:53 am

stylo777 wrote:
... someting extraordinary must have happened that day. Could be tight schedule, crew duty times, slots, weather, ground handling strike, pretty much anything...
I strongly suggest you to put a checkmark behind that flight since all airlines do care about their passengers and their cabins (on different levels of course), but I'm quite certain that none would accept a scenario as such in normal situations.

Thank you for that post. I struggled to believe the OP first, but that makes sense.
I don't fly business, but I do find it quite a cheat to sell seats next to a free middle seat as business. They need to have an own name for such a seating arrangement.

Why not to apologize and share the reason for the substandard service?
Though such a policy may only work for the liberal mind. For those with dominance and submission mentality an apology can be seen as weakness and therefore be an invitation to quarrel. Maybe the cabin chief came from a dominance and submission culture, which made him act wrong?
In which case one should rather feel pity than anger with him. He may never be able to enjoy the beauty of a liberal mind.
Or maybe he was too proud to even apologize for circumstances beyond his control. But would such a person be made chief flight attendant?
Or maybe three minutes earlier another passenger already ruined his mood over the same subject?

Question to the flight attendants:
How do you feel if you have to apologize thirty times for something beyond your control?
How many attendants struggle to do so?
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
coolian2
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:53 am

leghorn wrote:
pigeon English.

God I love irony
Q300/ATR72-600/737-200/-300/-400/-700/-800/A320/767-200/-300/757-200/777-300ER/
747-200/-300/-400/ER/A340-300/A380-800/MD-83/-88/CRJ-700/-900
 
leghorn
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:13 am

coolian2 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
pigeon English.

God I love irony

autocorrect is hilarious
 
bgm
Posts: 2101
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:00 pm

leghorn wrote:
coolian2 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
pigeon English.

God I love irony

autocorrect is hilarious


Sure, we believe you. :duck:

Listening to native English speakers making announcements isn’t much better. Often with heavy regional accents and lazy, garbled pronunciation.

Oh, and OP, I would be far more concerned with TK’s less than stellar safety record than the cleanliness of their planes.
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
FlyHappy
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Re: TK dispatching literally uncleaned planes?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:29 am

Sokes wrote:
I don't fly business, but I do find it quite a cheat to sell seats next to a free middle seat as business. They need to have an own name for such a seating arrangement.


They do. Or at least, we do.
"EUrobusiness"/"EUrobiz"

I'm only surprised that a European resident is expressing surprise about it. Of course, as they've stated, Aeroflot is the preferred carrier.

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