alan3
Topic Author
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am

Why doesn't HA fly to Canada or TS/WG fly to Hawaii?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:34 am

The Canada to Hawaii market is fairly big, especially from Western Canada, yet AC and WS are left to dominate. Surprised that Hawaiian doesn't fly maybe to YVR? I know Aloha did for a while.

Also surprised that Transat or Sunwing haven't also added service. Sunwing maybe they don't have sufficient aircraft (ETOPS 737) but Air Transat I would have thought so at least winter seasonal from YVR to balance out the aircraft on their summer seasonal services like LGW/MAN/CDG.

Just curious.
 
hoons90
Posts: 3547
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: Why doesn't HA fly to Canada or TS/WG fly to Hawaii?

Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:10 am

Point of sale is skewed towards the Canada side which gives AC and WS the advantage.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
Zortan
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:16 pm

Re: Why doesn't HA fly to Canada or TS/WG fly to Hawaii?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:27 pm

hoons90 wrote:
Point of sale is skewed towards the Canada side which gives AC and WS the advantage.

That doesn't explain why Transat and Sunwing don't do it then.

I feel like the market is just so saturated already that adding more carriers won't work. AC and WS already fly so many Hawaiian routes with rather high frequencies. Sure, there's definitely room for more, but does Hawaiian really want to risk HNL-YUL, which is a very long international flight with questionable demand?
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 B738 B739 B742 B744 B752 B763 B77W B788 B789 Q400 CRJ700
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2845
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Why doesn't HA fly to Canada or TS/WG fly to Hawaii?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:44 am

Several reasons come to mind.

1. YVR-HNL is a long flight (longer than their longest YUL/YYZ-Caribbean runs), meaning a crew layover would probably be required, further adding costs to the trip.

2. Canada-Hawaii requires ETOPS 180, something neither WG or TS are ready to invest in on their 737s. Heck, Southwest only recently started Hawaii probably for this very same reason.

3. A widebody on YVR-HNL would be overkill, hence why TS doesn’t bother with an A310 or A330 to Hawaii. Those frames are better utilized on higher yielding routes to Europe, or Carribean runs where they can charge the same fare, for a fraction of the cost of going to HNL.

4. WG and TS specialize in packaged holidays. Hawaii strikes me as more of a “do it yourself” kind of destination, where people don’t do packaged holidays and tend to book all aspects of their trip separately. This way they aren’t tied down to one hotel and can move around freely between the islands and see/do things at their own pace. This kind of traveller will have a tendency to book with a network carrier, which offers more flexibility/frequency, as opposed to a carrier like TS or WG.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 794
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Why doesn't HA fly to Canada or TS/WG fly to Hawaii?

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:58 pm

4. WG and TS specialize in packaged holidays. Hawaii strikes me as more of a “do it yourself” kind of destination, where people don’t do packaged holidays and tend to book all aspects of their trip separately. This way they aren’t tied down to one hotel and can move around freely between the islands and see/do things at their own pace. This kind of traveller will have a tendency to book with a network carrier, which offers more flexibility/frequency, as opposed to a carrier like TS or WG.


:checkmark: Very true for those who have been to Hawaii before and know what they're doing. First times might well do with a package, but not multitimers, and you're only a first timer once!

The competition in the Hawaiian market is cutthroat, too, so one must wonder about profits. When the MAX's problems are eventually ironed out and Southwest and United can really unleash that bird on the Islands, fares will certainly come down even more, further reducing the profit margin. TS and WG might just look at Hawaii and feel that the profits wouldn't outweigh the costs to a great enough extent to make it worthwhile.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 3935
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Why doesn't HA fly to Canada or TS/WG fly to Hawaii?

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:18 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Several reasons come to mind.

1. YVR-HNL is a long flight (longer than their longest YUL/YYZ-Caribbean runs), meaning a crew layover would probably be required, further adding costs to the trip.

2. Canada-Hawaii requires ETOPS 180, something neither WG or TS are ready to invest in on their 737s. Heck, Southwest only recently started Hawaii probably for this very same reason.

3. A widebody on YVR-HNL would be overkill, hence why TS doesn’t bother with an A310 or A330 to Hawaii. Those frames are better utilized on higher yielding routes to Europe, or Carribean runs where they can charge the same fare, for a fraction of the cost of going to HNL.

4. WG and TS specialize in packaged holidays. Hawaii strikes me as more of a “do it yourself” kind of destination, where people don’t do packaged holidays and tend to book all aspects of their trip separately. This way they aren’t tied down to one hotel and can move around freely between the islands and see/do things at their own pace. This kind of traveller will have a tendency to book with a network carrier, which offers more flexibility/frequency, as opposed to a carrier like TS or WG.

There are MANY packaged tours to Hawaii. Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays has made TONS of money packaging Hawaiian Holiday tours with Flight, Hotel and Car. What do you think all the Outrigger Hotels in HNL were converted for? Especially the Ones on Kuhio St.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2845
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Why doesn't HA fly to Canada or TS/WG fly to Hawaii?

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:02 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
There are MANY packaged tours to Hawaii. Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays has made TONS of money packaging Hawaiian Holiday tours with Flight, Hotel and Car. What do you think all the Outrigger Hotels in HNL were converted for? Especially the Ones on Kuhio St.


I'm sure there is. Just not from a Canadian point of sale.

If the demand for packaged holidays was there from Canada to Hawaii, you would have TS and WG all over the route. The fact that they aren't should tell you all you need to know.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2406
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Why doesn't HA fly to Canada or TS/WG fly to Hawaii?

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:01 pm

As correctly pointed out above, the point of sale is highly skewed towards Canada and their frequent fliers. Hawaii is a very seasonal destination from Canada and what little market there is has been sewn up by AC/WJ. Now the OP asked why doesn't HA fly to YVR? Short answer is there isn't enough money to be made. You can also ask why no other US carrier flies the route- same reason and in the far/far away past even Continental and maybe Western tried and pulled out.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos