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acavpics
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Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:25 pm

I'm surprised that neither UA nor EVA have not started connecting these two cities, given that they are both massive Star Alliance hubs.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:28 pm

EVA used to fly to EWR, and switched to JFK not long ago.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:23 am

What's the evidence that big numbers of flyers from Newark want to go to Taipei? What's the effect of JFK flights? What impact does UA having flights from SFO have? What destinations are served by EVA from TPE but not ANA from NRT, and what are those demand numbers?

Maybe we can get the Mods to create a 'Why no xxx-yyy ?' master thread that outlines what does - and does not - create demand for flights between two points.
 
acavpics
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:12 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
What's the evidence that big numbers of flyers from Newark want to go to Taipei? What's the effect of JFK flights? What impact does UA having flights from SFO have? What destinations are served by EVA from TPE but not ANA from NRT, and what are those demand numbers?

Maybe we can get the Mods to create a 'Why no xxx-yyy ?' master thread that outlines what does - and does not - create demand for flights between two points.


This isn't some random "xxx-yyy" route. These are two massive Star hubs and that are no longer connected. What good does it serve EVA to move all of its New York area flights to JFK when most of the *A flyers are in Newark?
 
Fuling
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:22 am

acavpics wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
What's the evidence that big numbers of flyers from Newark want to go to Taipei? What's the effect of JFK flights? What impact does UA having flights from SFO have? What destinations are served by EVA from TPE but not ANA from NRT, and what are those demand numbers?

Maybe we can get the Mods to create a 'Why no xxx-yyy ?' master thread that outlines what does - and does not - create demand for flights between two points.


This isn't some random "xxx-yyy" route. These are two massive Star hubs and that are no longer connected. What good does it serve EVA to move all of its New York area flights to JFK when most of the *A flyers are in Newark?


But one needs to remember that just because they are "huge" hubs, it doesn't mean they are expected to be connected. By that theory we should be seeing JNB-SFO, BKK-JNB, BOG-AKL, PTY-ARN etc connected.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:34 am

JV with NH, where one can connect to EVA, which flies 3x daily to NRT, on the A321, B77W, and B78X, along with a daily NH flight to TPE from NRT. Interestingly though, there is no HND-TPE flight on NH or BR.

Also, before asking about EWR-TPE, I'd also ask why no EWR-ICN route.
 
ITSTours
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:37 am

New York is primarily an O&D city. It is not a connection hub.

That is the reason why Asiana flies JFK. ANA flies JFK. EVA flies JFK. They don't care about the feeds.
 
frank1991
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:38 am

there are HND-TSA on both NH and BR.
 
acavpics
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:40 am

Fuling wrote:
acavpics wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
What's the evidence that big numbers of flyers from Newark want to go to Taipei? What's the effect of JFK flights? What impact does UA having flights from SFO have? What destinations are served by EVA from TPE but not ANA from NRT, and what are those demand numbers?

Maybe we can get the Mods to create a 'Why no xxx-yyy ?' master thread that outlines what does - and does not - create demand for flights between two points.


This isn't some random "xxx-yyy" route. These are two massive Star hubs and that are no longer connected. What good does it serve EVA to move all of its New York area flights to JFK when most of the *A flyers are in Newark?


But one needs to remember that just because they are "huge" hubs, it doesn't mean they are expected to be connected. By that theory we should be seeing JNB-SFO, BKK-JNB, BOG-AKL, PTY-ARN etc connected.


I should probably tweak my question to ask: Why does EVA (And other Star carriers like MS, TK, SN) prefer JFK over EWR?
Of course not all hubs of an alliance will be connected with each other. But in this case, there clearly is demand (and flights) from the New York area to Taipei. I just don't get why EVA chose 2x daily JFK over EWR.
 
acavpics
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:41 am

ITSTours wrote:
New York is primarily an O&D city. It is not a connection hub.

That is the reason why Asiana flies JFK. ANA flies JFK. EVA flies JFK. They don't care about the feeds.


At least there is EWR-NRT on UA, which codeshares for ANA.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:00 am

ITSTours wrote:
New York is primarily an O&D city. It is not a connection hub.

That is the reason why Asiana flies JFK. ANA flies JFK. EVA flies JFK. They don't care about the feeds.


I would actually dissagree with that statement. I tend to believe it's more because of the lack of gate space and facilities available at EWR. ANA definitely sees a market at EWR if UA wants to go 2x daily, on two of their largest aircraft.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:00 am

acavpics wrote:
What good does it serve EVA to move all of its New York area flights to JFK when most of the *A flyers are in Newark?

Where do you get the idea that "most Star flyers are in Newark," in regard to intercon travelers?



Here, let me share with you some industry truths that are going to preempt a good 95% of any questions you may have on the topic:

  1. airlines go where the passenger demand is
  2. in an equality/similarity of passenger demand, airlines will go where the yield is
  3. money will always trump alliance loyalties
  4. airlines will always look out for their own business model, before modifying it for the benefit of a partner

.....apply these, and you'll have your answer to nearly all of these questions you're seeking.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
bcworld
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:24 am

acavpics wrote:
I'm surprised that neither UA nor EVA have not started connecting these two cities, given that they are both massive Star Alliance hubs.


Given that BR is also flying to SFO, LAX, SEA, IAH and ORD I think they have onward connections pretty much covered.

Connecting from NYC will surely seem like backtracking in a lot of cases.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:29 am

acavpics wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
What's the evidence that big numbers of flyers from Newark want to go to Taipei? What's the effect of JFK flights? What impact does UA having flights from SFO have? What destinations are served by EVA from TPE but not ANA from NRT, and what are those demand numbers?

Maybe we can get the Mods to create a 'Why no xxx-yyy ?' master thread that outlines what does - and does not - create demand for flights between two points.


This isn't some random "xxx-yyy" route. These are two massive Star hubs and that are no longer connected. What good does it serve EVA to move all of its New York area flights to JFK when most of the *A flyers are in Newark?


Perhaps NYC is mostly O&D for EVA. What places in North America could any airport in NYC connect to TPE that aren't already covered by other hubs to the west? If O&D is what matters, then the airport best placed for local customers matters most.
 
cha747
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:05 am

On first glance I'd say that it has to do with economics. I'm sure this is what it has to do with.

So I'll ask a few questions that I don't know the answer to:

- I'd think that a large block of the Taiwanese community is located in/around Flushing and Nassau County. If your target population is a hop/skip/jump from Jamaica, were they losing out to China Airlines which also offers non-stop service? With traffic if I lived east of Manhattan and had an option to travel to TPE from JFK, I'd take that in a heartbeat even over service and price.

- Is it a crew issue? I've stayed at a hotel in Flushing in Chinatown (Hyatt Place) and it was full of crews from different Asian airlines (obviously from JFK). I talked to a few crew members and they said that they prefer that hotel because it was walking distance to both all of their favorite restaurants (both Asian and non-Asian) and walking distance to shopping. That part of NYC is open almost 24 hours as opposed to Newark which is...not so much.
Piedmontgirl was always right
 
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TOGA10
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:29 am

cha747 wrote:
- Is it a crew issue? I've stayed at a hotel in Flushing in Chinatown (Hyatt Place) and it was full of crews from different Asian airlines (obviously from JFK). I talked to a few crew members and they said that they prefer that hotel because it was walking distance to both all of their favorite restaurants (both Asian and non-Asian) and walking distance to shopping. That part of NYC is open almost 24 hours as opposed to Newark which is...not so much.


I'm 100% convinced that the choice for any destination (or airport If there are multiple options for that destination), is not based on crew preference. The airline will make sure the hotel ticks all the boxes safety and comfort wise, but will never change from (in this case) EWR to JFK just because their crew like that part of town better. It all has to with economics, like LAX772LR said above in reply #12.
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VC10er
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:32 pm

What US cities (other than JFK) does EVA fly nonstop to? I am sure that if someone in Taiwan wants to visit family just about anywhere in the USA, or go to DisneyWorld or a business person needs to go to any city in the USA, I would bet that UA could manage the domestic leg.

Very often while traveling domestically with UA I see small groups of Asian business people in F, or European business people going anywhere I might be headed, Tampa or Richmond etc, etc. I haven’t a clue who they flew across the ocean though- my assumption is a *A Airline however.

I would bet anything that if EWR to TPE nonstop was calculated to be a high potential, high premium route, that UA would be flying it by now? No?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:44 pm

bcworld wrote:
acavpics wrote:
I'm surprised that neither UA nor EVA have not started connecting these two cities, given that they are both massive Star Alliance hubs.


Given that BR is also flying to SFO, LAX, SEA, IAH and ORD I think they have onward connections pretty much covered.

Connecting from NYC will surely seem like backtracking in a lot of cases.


EVA’s flights to ORD and IAH don’t work for feeding connections. Both arrive into Houston and Chicago after the last connecting banks of departures. EVAs flights are timed for connections on the TPE side, not US domestic connections. Chicago is geographically positioned to offer better connections than EWR ever could from Asia, but the 9pm arrival forces passengers to overnight in Chicago. EVA routes connecting domestic US traffic through SFO
 
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AirKevin
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:56 am

acavpics wrote:
I just don't get why EVA chose 2x daily JFK over EWR.

They didn't, it's once daily. They did have a second flight, but it didn't last too long and was axed some time last year. Even then, the second flight wasn't daily.
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frank1991
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:06 am

They did for a period of time having double daily JFK. It lasted only about a month before moving the capacity to SFO. I think the second daily departure from TPE is too early at 8am, maybe a 10am departure would catch more transfer traffic from HKG, ICN etc.
 
WorldspotterPL
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:34 am

acavpics wrote:
I'm surprised that neither UA nor EVA have not started connecting these two cities, given that they are both massive Star Alliance hubs.


To be fair, TPE is not a massive Star Alliance hub. In my data from 2017, at around 3.4m annual connecting pax it lies just behind Royal Air Maroc's Casablanca hub, SAS' Oslo hub and just in front of Pegasus' Istanbul SAW hub. Just to compare, the truly massive Star Alliance hubs are [email protected] at 33m annual connecting pax, or [email protected] at 29m. Even [email protected] seems tiny at 8.6m. And, by the way, China Airlines' hub at TPE is the smaller one at 2.7m annual connecting pax, so even combined TPE as an airport is by no means a massive hub at all.

Best regards,
PL
 
jasoncrh
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Because in most cases, airlines go to whatever airport is closest to their target audience. More Chinese people/ Taiwanese are closer to JFK than EWR. It really is that simple. EVA was in EWR for a long time and they have the numbers and experience to back up their decision.

acavpics wrote:
Fuling wrote:
acavpics wrote:

This isn't some random "xxx-yyy" route. These are two massive Star hubs and that are no longer connected. What good does it serve EVA to move all of its New York area flights to JFK when most of the *A flyers are in Newark?


But one needs to remember that just because they are "huge" hubs, it doesn't mean they are expected to be connected. By that theory we should be seeing JNB-SFO, BKK-JNB, BOG-AKL, PTY-ARN etc connected.


I should probably tweak my question to ask: Why does EVA (And other Star carriers like MS, TK, SN) prefer JFK over EWR?
Of course not all hubs of an alliance will be connected with each other. But in this case, there clearly is demand (and flights) from the New York area to Taipei. I just don't get why EVA chose 2x daily JFK over EWR.
 
FSDan
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:25 pm

While it makes sense for European Star Alliance carriers (TP, SK, LH, LX, LO, OS) to fly to EWR for the UA connecting traffic, NYC is just not in a great location to feed connecting traffic to East Asia other than from a few nearby cities like Boston and Washington. And since New York is such a massive, unwieldy metro area to get around, it doesn't make sense to pick EWR over JFK unless the target population is on the NJ/Staten Island/southern Manhattan side of the area.

The one I find crazier than TPE is that ICN doesn't have EWR service, either on UA or OZ. There's quite a substantial Korean population in NJ that could help support a flight.
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leftcoast8
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Re: Why is there no EWR-TPE flight?

Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:13 pm

Some info about the history of BR's NYC service: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eva-air ... ns-13.html

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