ktof
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:31 am

Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:48 pm

Last week I had quite a tight protected connection in Brussels.

MAN - BRU arr: 08:30
BRU - PRG dep: 09:30

All on one ticket with Brussels Airlines.

1st leg arrived into BRU on time, but took 20 minutes to get the airstairs to the aircraft, leaving 40 mins connection. We were on a remote stand, so had to get the bus to the terminal.

Arrived at the terminal at 08:55 but as we were arriving from a Non-Schengen country, I had to pass through security and passport control to get to the A Gates (which are a long, long walk away at the best of times).

Anyway, the queue for security was hideously long, and then the same again for passport control. I asked to be fast tracked but airport staff were not interested, they wouldn't/couldnt fast track me through so I had to queue.

I ran through the terminal but the gate was closed and I'd missed my connection.

After queueing for 2 hours I finally got to speak to SN staff who rebooked me on the 16:30 flight, 7 hours after I was originally due to leave Brussels.

I'm just curious to see who you guys think was at fault here?

I was quite confident about the 1 hour connection, especially as it was guaranteed with the airline.

The SN staff said it's a regular problem with short connections at BRU because of the schengen / non schengen issues.

I'm not really bothered, I just went into the city, had pancakes then fell asleep in the airport for a bit, but I've been told by a colleague I should seek compensation for the delay. Would this be an SN issue or an airport issue?
 
berari
Posts: 759
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:52 pm

I would say airline's. If the airport does not allow for short connections such as yours, then the airline shouldn't sell tickets with connections this tight. Everything you described is a possibility of arriving at an airport with remote stands. And early arrivals mean multiple international flights arriving. If a connection requires immigration/passport control, my personal rule is 1.5 hours minimum.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 13909
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:03 pm

Probably neither the airports or airlines fault. If you held a different passport you could have made the connection.

Welcome to brexit.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
madairdrie
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:40 am

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:13 pm

Your contract is with the airline. It’s them that sold you a flight that had a very tight connection so it would be them that you would need to seek compensation from. I have to say I generally am not someone that seeks compensation in such circumstances, if it’s a short connection I accept its my risk that I might miss the connection, the airlines risk in my view is its their job to get me where I am meant to be going as quickly as they can once connection is missed, If I am looking for guaranteed connection I book a longer layover or use a different route. With short connections there is always the possibility you get caught with a delay leaving origin, remote stand, long taxi, extra security, gate not ready, its the risk you take. In your situation my annoyance would have been the 2 hours to get to speak to someone, but I would react to that depending on how the treat me, if they are pleasant and apologise and explain it’s been one of those nightmare days then I accept that’s livens move on.

I remember once being on a plane that ended up going tech at Edinburgh with BA, I was on way to Chicago. Almost the entire plane was connecting passengers we had to reclaim luggage then go to be rerouted it took a long time. But the staff were great despite people shouting at them. There were about 7 staff dealing with it. If it had been the flight before or after there would not have been as many connections. Are they meant to have lot a of staff there just in case? They handled it really well and staff apologised etc. First thing they tried to do with me was get me on the direct united flight but it was already closed what more could I have asked. I ended up getting to Chicago 7 hours after I was meant to and ended up with my EU compensation.

You might be able to claim the eu compensation to as its a through flight you were on not sure how It works when neither flight it’s self was delayed but worth a try
 
bhxalex
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:40 am

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:12 am

zeke wrote:
Probably neither the airports or airlines fault. If you held a different passport you could have made the connection.

Welcome to brexit.



Nothing to do with the OP's passport or Brexit.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 13909
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:48 am

bhxalex wrote:
Nothing to do with the OP's passport or Brexit.


If they were from the EU, they would not have needed to line up for the traditional boarder control, they could have quickly passed through the automated gates with their EU passport.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
debonair
Posts: 3497
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:07 am

madairdrie wrote:
You might be able to claim the eu compensation to as its a through flight you were on not sure how It works when neither flight it’s self was delayed but worth a try


That's right - you may claim compensation as the arrival at your final destination was 7 hours later than scheduled. Also, due to the missed connection you were entitled for free phone calls and meals. If SN failed to do so, you can claim on top for the amount you spend at the airport for food and drinks.
 
ktof
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:32 am

zeke wrote:
bhxalex wrote:
Nothing to do with the OP's passport or Brexit.


If they were from the EU, they would not have needed to line up for the traditional boarder control, they could have quickly passed through the automated gates with their EU passport.



Zeke, I don't wish to sound rude but you may want to read a newspaper.

A. Brexit has not yet been implemented - I have a valid UK passport, which believe it or not is still a EU country which entitles me to go through the EU automated gates.
Sadly, at Brussels connections between Non-Schengen and Schengen gates (again, please read up) there are no automated EU gates.

You have to go through security again, and have your passport inspected by a human which took me approximately 50 minutes from arriving in the terminal, even after begging and pleading staff and other passengers.

To the other sensible people, thank you so much for your responses.

I'm genuinely not all that bothered about compensation - they didn't give me any food vouchers but they did fulfill their duty of rebooking me on the later flight.

I arrived 7 hours late but worse things have happened, it's only because my colleague mentioned potential compo that I thought I'd ask the question on here.

I'll have a chat with SN and see what they say, thanks so much all.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 13909
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:40 am

ktof wrote:
Sadly, at Brussels connections between Non-Schengen and Schengen gates (again, please read up) there are no automated EU gates.

You have to go through security again, and have your passport inspected by a human which took me approximately 50 minutes from arriving in the terminal, even after begging and pleading staff and other passengers.


https://www.passengerselfservice.com/20 ... c-e-gates/

"Six automated border control e-gates have opened at Brussels Airport for arriving EU passengers.

The ABC e-gates should allow arriving passengers at Brussels Airport to proceed through border control more swiftly.

At the moment, all passengers at Brussels Airport who travel to or arrive from a non-Schengen country, such as Morocco or the USA, have to go through border control. The police check whether their identity matches that on the identity papers and whether the travel documents they carry are authentic.

Now, this verification can also happen digitally for arriving EU-citizens at the six ABC e-gates in Pier B.

At a later stage the e-gates will also be installed for departing passengers."
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
ktof
Topic Author
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:45 am

zeke wrote:
ktof wrote:
Sadly, at Brussels connections between Non-Schengen and Schengen gates (again, please read up) there are no automated EU gates.

You have to go through security again, and have your passport inspected by a human which took me approximately 50 minutes from arriving in the terminal, even after begging and pleading staff and other passengers.


https://www.passengerselfservice.com/20 ... c-e-gates/

"Six automated border control e-gates have opened at Brussels Airport for arriving EU passengers.

The ABC e-gates should allow arriving passengers at Brussels Airport to proceed through border control more swiftly.

At the moment, all passengers at Brussels Airport who travel to or arrive from a non-Schengen country, such as Morocco or the USA, have to go through border control. The police check whether their identity matches that on the identity papers and whether the travel documents they carry are authentic.

Now, this verification can also happen digitally for arriving EU-citizens at the six ABC e-gates in Pier B.

At a later stage the e-gates will also be installed for departing passengers."


Goodness me, this option was NOT available for me, how hard is this for you to understand?

I had to go through SECURITY, where there was a very long queue. I can't magic myself through an e-gate for security.

The e-gates were NOT open, I along with all other passengers had to go through the MANUAL checks by a human being.

I asked the staff at the airport to fast track me, and they did not.

Now unless you have anything useful to say to me, I kindly ask you not to reply to this thread again, because everything you have said so far has been stupid or irrelevant.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 13909
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:53 am

ktof wrote:
The e-gates were NOT open, I along with all other passengers had to go through the MANUAL checks by a human being.


When did you previously say the ABC was not open ?

In your OP you were complaining about security and passport control. If the ABC was open passport control would not have been an issue if you had an EU passport.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 810
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:22 pm

In my own experience, European airlines have a tendency to schedule connecting flights WAY too close together for dealing with passport controls and/or other issues.

Lufthansa sold me LAX-FRA-ZWS (Stuttgart railway station) with a one hour and seven minute connection time. That might be fine for a Schengen-FRA connection, but coming from outside the area it wasn't possible to make this connection. Well, technically, had their not been a plethora of Chinese families who didn't understand the concept of "holding onto your OWN passport" (instead of the patriarch holding all of them) and had their been more than two guards on duty, we might have made it.

My German friend knew we weren't going to make it, but there's no arguing with an airline about too short of a connection. At least we were re-routed onto the next flight, and we did get to our destination.
 
n729pa
Posts: 1097
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:49 pm

bhxalex wrote:
zeke wrote:
Probably neither the airports or airlines fault. If you held a different passport you could have made the connection.

Welcome to brexit.



Nothing to do with the OP's passport or Brexit.


Correct! Utter rubbish to associate it with Brexit. Nothing to do with it and an ill informed comment.

I flew LHR FRA VIE on Wednesday with LH and OS, Lufthansa ticket 50 min connection. LH921 parked on remote stand (nothing to do with UK origin) as there was later an OS flight parked on remote stand too. Plus have arrived at a gate before on same flight, so remote stand random. Bussed to terminal. OS flight from gate A24.. I made the flight despite going through passport check.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 13909
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:03 pm

n729pa wrote:

Correct! Utter rubbish to associate it with Brexit. Nothing to do with it and an ill informed comment.

I flew LHR FRA VIE on Wednesday with LH and OS, Lufthansa ticket 50 min connection. LH921 parked on remote stand (nothing to do with UK origin) as there was later an OS flight parked on remote stand too. Plus have arrived at a gate before on same flight, so remote stand random. Bussed to terminal. OS flight from gate A24.. I made the flight despite going through passport check.


Normally at BRU if you have an EU passport you can go through the automated gates instead on the manual passport control. Normally the only reason the automated gates cannot be used is if you do not have an EU passport, or you are under the age of 12.

The OP did not say until several posts later that the automated gates were were closed at the time.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
n729pa
Posts: 1097
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:16 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:04 pm

The problem is simple, and others have mentioned it too. Airlines schedule connections that are too tight. Just the slightest delay or hold up somewhere and your connection becomes risky. If I know I have a tight connection (I try and avoid anything under 1 hour normally especially at a large hub), then I try and book an aisle seat as close to the front as I can to make a quick exit. People take so long faffing about getting their luggage out the overhead bins that you can often loose 15-20 mins from door opening before you can even get off. If the flight goes from the next gate you'll be ok but it's rarely that simple. If the next flight after yours is an hour later it's not so bad but a missed connection can be a nuisance.

8 times out of 10 the connection might be ok but now and then sometime takes a bit longer and you don't make it. Ultimately the airline has to take reasonable responsibility because they are marketing and selling that service and connection. If it not practical and doesn't work then they have to remove it.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2911
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:29 am

The fault is with the airline. They sold you a connection, which means it should be possible. What happened was outside your control, so the airline is responsible for the delay.

Send off your claim for €250 for the delay as per EU 261.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3042
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:31 am

At BRU, the border police is entangled in a social conflict with the federal government on additional pay...
Since police can not go on strike, they conduct their checks thoroughly and slowly, causing delays to citizens holding non-schengen zone passports.
Because no Belgians are affected, the government doesn't feel much pressure to give in, so the conflict isn't near being resolved.
A claim will in all likeliness not be honoured by the airline and you have a low chance of succeeding in a court room either, going by your account of events as 40 minutes should be enough in BRU, IF the flow would not be artificially reduced at least, something which is out of their control....

BTW, intra-Schengen connections are unaffected, as are Schengen zonepassport holders, so Zeke isn't wrong in his claim, although it's not the root cause.
Last edited by sabenapilot on Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2911
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:36 am

sabenapilot wrote:
A claim will in all likeliness not be honoured by the airline and you have a low chance of succeeding in a court room either, going by your account of events as 40 minutes should be enough in BRU, IF the flow would not be artificially reduced at least, something which is out of their control....


It is not an exceptional circumstance. If Brussels Airlines won't acknowledge it, the court will have to force them.
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 3042
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2000 6:18 pm

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:46 am

VSMUT wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
A claim will in all likeliness not be honoured by the airline and you have a low chance of succeeding in a court room either, going by your account of events as 40 minutes should be enough in BRU, IF the flow would not be artificially reduced at least, something which is out of their control....


It is not an exceptional circumstance. If Brussels Airlines won't acknowledge it, the court will have to force them.


He can always try and see what a Belgian court rules: the thing has been going on for several weeks already at Brussels Airport and is well documented.
An airline can obviously not be held responsible for everything that happens between 2 gates, including social action at immigration control.
The topic starter has been rebooked, which is only fair; all the rest is bonus really.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2911
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Missed Connection in BRU - Airline or Airport At Fault?

Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:35 am

sabenapilot wrote:
An airline can obviously not be held responsible for everything that happens between 2 gates, including social action at immigration control.


Yes they are. They knew there was trouble, they could have changed the schedule accordingly.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AH45 and 5 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos