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LaunchDetected
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What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:57 am

Hi everyone, dumb question here,

What is the definition of a Flight (in the airline operation sense)?

Let's take the flight AF 6114:
Departure ORY - 11:10
Arrival TLS - 12:25
Everyday

Is Air France allowed to schedule this flight (with the number 6114) Monday at 11:10 AND Thursday at 13:30?

Or they will have to change the flight number for the flight of Thursday (due to the change of departure hour)?
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SASViking
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:14 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
Hi everyone, dumb question here,

What is the definition of a Flight (in the airline operation sense)?

Let's take the flight AF 6114:
Departure ORY - 11:10
Arrival TLS - 12:25
Everyday

Is Air France allowed to schedule this flight (with the number 6114) Monday at 11:10 AND Thursday at 13:30?

Or they will have to change the flight number for the flight of Thursday (due to the change of departure hour)?

They don't need to change the flight number. There are a lot of cases where the departure and arrival times are different from day to day but with the same flight number. In the US they often have the same flight number for two flights on the same day. Some are XXX-YYY-XXX (return flights), others are XXX-YYY-ZZZ with a change of aircraft in YYY.
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DLHAM
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:24 pm

For example the daily Ryanair flight HAM-DUB has different departure times almost everyday, varying from the early morning to the afternoon, the flight number is still the same.
AFAIK one flight number can exist once a day, or to be more precise: one flight number can takeoff once a day and only one plane with flight number XY can be in the air at one time.
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hOMSaR
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:30 pm

A flight number (for passenger information purposes) only really has to be unique for a given origin-destination/date. Meaning, you can’t have two AF6110s scheduled from ORY to TLS on the same day. Beyond that, there really is no rule on what an airline does with its flight numbers. They can use the same flight numbers every day, they could change them all every other day, they could take the same numbers and trade which flights they apply to. Doesn’t matter.

For ATC purposes, you just can’t have two flights with the same number airborne in the same area at the same time.
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:42 pm

A little off topic, perhaps, but I thought this would be of interest: I'm old enough to remember taking a trip aboard an SN.R4 hovercraft, from Dover to Calais. The attendant aboard this air-cushion ferry referred to the trip as a "flight." Beyond the Rolls Royce Proteus engines, the word "flight" would be apt, as that craft seemed very much a thing of the future back in 1976. That experience tied with the coolest flight ever with my first ride on a Pan Am Boeing 747 five years earlier.
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:48 pm

fanofjets wrote:
A little off topic, perhaps, but I thought this would be of interest: I'm old enough to remember taking a trip aboard an SN.R4 hovercraft, from Dover to Calais. The attendant aboard this air-cushion ferry referred to the trip as a "flight." Beyond the Rolls Royce Proteus engines, the word "flight" would be apt, as that craft seemed very much a thing of the future back in 1976. That experience tied with the coolest flight ever with my first ride on a Pan Am Boeing 747 five years earlier.



I think 'A little off topic' is an understatement there.
 
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:34 pm

DLHAM wrote:
For example the daily Ryanair flight HAM-DUB has different departure times almost everyday, varying from the early morning to the afternoon, the flight number is still the same.
AFAIK one flight number can exist once a day, or to be more precise: one flight number can takeoff once a day and only one plane with flight number XY can be in the air at one time.

I thought this too, but then Qantas had a whole heap of problems at SFO a few weeks ago and, to finally sort it out, they had TWO QF74s flying back to Sydney departing 3 hours apart and in the air at the same time. I'm not sure how that was feasible, but it wrecked havoc within the terminal ("If you have a ticket that says QF74 for July 26, your flight is at Gate 5, if you have a ticket for QF74 on July 27th, your flight is at Gate 8" announced in the terminal every 5 minutes).
 
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DLHAM
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:36 pm

EChid wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
For example the daily Ryanair flight HAM-DUB has different departure times almost everyday, varying from the early morning to the afternoon, the flight number is still the same.
AFAIK one flight number can exist once a day, or to be more precise: one flight number can takeoff once a day and only one plane with flight number XY can be in the air at one time.

I thought this too, but then Qantas had a whole heap of problems at SFO a few weeks ago and, to finally sort it out, they had TWO QF74s flying back to Sydney departing 3 hours apart and in the air at the same time. I'm not sure how that was feasible, but it wrecked havoc within the terminal ("If you have a ticket that says QF74 for July 26, your flight is at Gate 5, if you have a ticket for QF74 on July 27th, your flight is at Gate 8" announced in the terminal every 5 minutes).


Maybe they doesnt change the Boarding Passes to make it easier, but internally the flight operated with a different flight number. This would be my guess.

But talking about flight numbers a lot of Delta domestic flights come to my mind, that use the exact same number for ATL-BOS and BOS-ATL for example, on the same day. I think this because Delta has so many flights and there are not enough numbers for all these flights. But these flights must operate as ATL to ATL via BOS, otherwise it wont work I think. Because this is the same aircraft these two flight typically cant be in the air the same time.
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n729pa
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:40 pm

EChid wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
For example the daily Ryanair flight HAM-DUB has different departure times almost everyday, varying from the early morning to the afternoon, the flight number is still the same.
AFAIK one flight number can exist once a day, or to be more precise: one flight number can takeoff once a day and only one plane with flight number XY can be in the air at one time.

I thought this too, but then Qantas had a whole heap of problems at SFO a few weeks ago and, to finally sort it out, they had TWO QF74s flying back to Sydney departing 3 hours apart and in the air at the same time. I'm not sure how that was feasible, but it wrecked havoc within the terminal ("If you have a ticket that says QF74 for July 26, your flight is at Gate 5, if you have a ticket for QF74 on July 27th, your flight is at Gate 8" announced in the terminal every 5 minutes).


I think normally they'll but a D on the first (delayed) flight to distinguish the two. Ie 22nd August flight delayed till 23rd becomes QF 74D, the flight for the 23rd retains its QF74 flight number.

Have seen BA do a similar thing.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:44 pm

United always used to have a completely different number when they flew the aircraft from the canceled flight due to AOG the day before or earlier back to EWR from HAM (which happened quite offen with the 767 :roll: :gnasher: ).
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EChid
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:51 pm

n729pa wrote:
EChid wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
For example the daily Ryanair flight HAM-DUB has different departure times almost everyday, varying from the early morning to the afternoon, the flight number is still the same.
AFAIK one flight number can exist once a day, or to be more precise: one flight number can takeoff once a day and only one plane with flight number XY can be in the air at one time.

I thought this too, but then Qantas had a whole heap of problems at SFO a few weeks ago and, to finally sort it out, they had TWO QF74s flying back to Sydney departing 3 hours apart and in the air at the same time. I'm not sure how that was feasible, but it wrecked havoc within the terminal ("If you have a ticket that says QF74 for July 26, your flight is at Gate 5, if you have a ticket for QF74 on July 27th, your flight is at Gate 8" announced in the terminal every 5 minutes).


I think normally they'll but a D on the first (delayed) flight to distinguish the two. Ie 22nd August flight delayed till 23rd becomes QF 74D, the flight for the 23rd retains its QF74 flight number.

Have seen BA do a similar thing.

But it neither makes it easier nor, if they do us the D addition, does that appear on the boarding card. This is was contributed to mass confusion in the terminal. Two flights, bound for the same destination, with the same flight number. The airport displays were actually showing the earlier departure time with the later boarding gate. It was a bit comedic. But you're right, they must be using a different flight number in the sky (although I checked FlightAware after I landed - and their flight number appeared simply as QF74).
 
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Vasu
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Re: What is "a Flight" ?

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:33 pm

fanofjets wrote:
A little off topic, perhaps, but I thought this would be of interest: I'm old enough to remember taking a trip aboard an SN.R4 hovercraft, from Dover to Calais. The attendant aboard this air-cushion ferry referred to the trip as a "flight." Beyond the Rolls Royce Proteus engines, the word "flight" would be apt, as that craft seemed very much a thing of the future back in 1976. That experience tied with the coolest flight ever with my first ride on a Pan Am Boeing 747 five years earlier.


Wow, that brings back memories! I was also lucky enough to go on one just before retirement in 2000ish(?) It definitely had more of an “aeroplane feel” than the ferries that currently operate - including having sick bags in the seat pocket in front! I’m currently near Calais and tomorrow’s crossing home won’t be as exciting as when the hovercrafts “flew” over the channel. I remember hearing them refer to it as a flight too and my childhood mind was blown!

In relation to the original question - I thought that the XXX - YYY - ZZZ flights with a change of aircraft at YYY we’re now pretty much gone in the US. Are there still some in operation?

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