SoCalFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:28 pm

“Notice to KCM Crewmembers:

Effective August 28, 2019, KCM-authorized Crewmembers will be required to wear uniforms while using KCM access points.

Effective August 27, 2019, KCM-authorized enhancement to Unpredictable Screening Procedures (USP) will be enabled. This enhancement will include retention of the Crewmember selection for USP for a period of time at all KCM access points in that airport. NOTE: If the selected Crewmember exits the sterile area and attempts to reenter through a KCM access point during this time period, they will continue to be identified for USP.”

Well that didn’t last long. Was there that much abuse, I wonder.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1426
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:41 pm

Im unfamiliar with the back story?


Is this it? https://www.knowncrewmember.org/
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3118
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:09 pm

This really sucks. I'm very disappointed in those who abused this and ruined it for those of us who didn't do anything wrong.

KCM was a great "perk" in helping to make domestic travel that much more painless, whether I was traveling for work or not. It meant predictable times from the parking lot to the gate, allowing for more time at home. That extra 20-30 minutes I'm going to have to pad it with now means more time away from home.

Commuting in uniform is not always desired, and it's certainly not necessary. Nor is it necessary for someone with a crew badge to have to go through security. It accomplishes nothing.

I'm curious to see how this will be enforced. Many 135 operators don't have a traditional uniform.
Cheers,
Cameron
 
SocalApproach
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:20 pm

Longhornmaniac wrote:
I'm curious to see how this will be enforced. Many 135 operators don't have a traditional uniform.


And I assume the TSA doesn’t teach or update their training often enough to show what uniforms look like. Back when I was flying for VX we just started flying to EWR and the TSA agent who probably hadn’t encountered anyone from VX yet didn’t believe what I was wearing was in fact an official uniform.

It’s unfortunate we can’t take advantage of KCM in plain clothes now as I’m a commuter too. It’s not comfortable to fly standby in your uniform and the time it would take to change out of my uniform once going through KCM I might as well just stand in the precheck line with every other passenger
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13909
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:30 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
I'm curious to see how this will be enforced. Many 135 operators don't have a traditional uniform.


And I assume the TSA doesn’t teach or update their training often enough to show what uniforms look like. Back when I was flying for VX we just started flying to EWR and the TSA agent who probably hadn’t encountered anyone from VX yet didn’t believe what I was wearing was in fact an official uniform.

It’s unfortunate we can’t take advantage of KCM in plain clothes now as I’m a commuter too. It’s not comfortable to fly standby in your uniform and the time it would take to change out of my uniform once going through KCM I might as well just stand in the precheck line with every other passenger


Are y’all able to use Precheck while commuting if you are a member? It’s pretty rare for Precheck lines to be long nowadays. (Whether commuters should have to spend the money to enroll is a different question.)
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
grbauc
Posts: 1426
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:40 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
I'm curious to see how this will be enforced. Many 135 operators don't have a traditional uniform.


And I assume the TSA doesn’t teach or update their training often enough to show what uniforms look like. Back when I was flying for VX we just started flying to EWR and the TSA agent who probably hadn’t encountered anyone from VX yet didn’t believe what I was wearing was in fact an official uniform.

It’s unfortunate we can’t take advantage of KCM in plain clothes now as I’m a commuter too. It’s not comfortable to fly standby in your uniform and the time it would take to change out of my uniform once going through KCM I might as well just stand in the precheck line with every other passenger


Are y’all able to use Precheck while commuting if you are a member? It’s pretty rare for Precheck lines to be long nowadays. (Whether commuters should have to spend the money to enroll is a different question.)



Good point. AA at Lax is 5-10 min max for me during high points.
 
SocalApproach
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:09 am

Cubsrule wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
I'm curious to see how this will be enforced. Many 135 operators don't have a traditional uniform.


And I assume the TSA doesn’t teach or update their training often enough to show what uniforms look like. Back when I was flying for VX we just started flying to EWR and the TSA agent who probably hadn’t encountered anyone from VX yet didn’t believe what I was wearing was in fact an official uniform.

It’s unfortunate we can’t take advantage of KCM in plain clothes now as I’m a commuter too. It’s not comfortable to fly standby in your uniform and the time it would take to change out of my uniform once going through KCM I might as well just stand in the precheck line with every other passenger


Are y’all able to use Precheck while commuting if you are a member? It’s pretty rare for Precheck lines to be long nowadays. (Whether commuters should have to spend the money to enroll is a different question.)


I’ve personally never used precheck while commuting, always KCM but i usually go through precheck with my buddies who are non flight attendants on our leisure trips just to stick together. I paid for precheck before I became a flight attendant also
 
SoCalFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:24 am

SocalApproach wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
I'm curious to see how this will be enforced. Many 135 operators don't have a traditional uniform.


And I assume the TSA doesn’t teach or update their training often enough to show what uniforms look like. Back when I was flying for VX we just started flying to EWR and the TSA agent who probably hadn’t encountered anyone from VX yet didn’t believe what I was wearing was in fact an official uniform.

It’s unfortunate we can’t take advantage of KCM in plain clothes now as I’m a commuter too. It’s not comfortable to fly standby in your uniform and the time it would take to change out of my uniform once going through KCM I might as well just stand in the precheck line with every other passenger



I agree, very unfortunate, and I don’t believe you’re allowed to change into plain clothes once through KCM in uniform either.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3112
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:29 am

SoCalFlyer wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
I'm curious to see how this will be enforced. Many 135 operators don't have a traditional uniform.


And I assume the TSA doesn’t teach or update their training often enough to show what uniforms look like. Back when I was flying for VX we just started flying to EWR and the TSA agent who probably hadn’t encountered anyone from VX yet didn’t believe what I was wearing was in fact an official uniform.

It’s unfortunate we can’t take advantage of KCM in plain clothes now as I’m a commuter too. It’s not comfortable to fly standby in your uniform and the time it would take to change out of my uniform once going through KCM I might as well just stand in the precheck line with every other passenger



I agree, very unfortunate, and I don’t believe you’re allowed to change into plain clothes once through KCM in uniform either.


According to what regulation? Or what document?
From my cold, dead hands
 
hereandthere41
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:31 am

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:47 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:

And I assume the TSA doesn’t teach or update their training often enough to show what uniforms look like. Back when I was flying for VX we just started flying to EWR and the TSA agent who probably hadn’t encountered anyone from VX yet didn’t believe what I was wearing was in fact an official uniform.

It’s unfortunate we can’t take advantage of KCM in plain clothes now as I’m a commuter too. It’s not comfortable to fly standby in your uniform and the time it would take to change out of my uniform once going through KCM I might as well just stand in the precheck line with every other passenger



I agree, very unfortunate, and I don’t believe you’re allowed to change into plain clothes once through KCM in uniform either.


According to what regulation? Or what document?



This has been the rule since day 1. If you were a crew member you'd know where to find the document. You can't wear the uniform just to circumvent security procedures. You have to be going to work or commuting to work a flight.
 
LuigiGDL
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:15 am

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:47 am

What exactly is being abused? It was legal to commute in plainclothes and use KCM... So why the need for change? Are crew members getting caught with illegal items past security during random checks? And also, there is no mention of not being able to change clothes past KCM.
 
LuigiGDL
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:15 am

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:58 am

hereandthere41 wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:


I agree, very unfortunate, and I don’t believe you’re allowed to change into plain clothes once through KCM in uniform either.


According to what regulation? Or what document?



This has been the rule since day 1. If you were a crew member you'd know where to find the document. You can't wear the uniform just to circumvent security procedures. You have to be going to work or commuting to work a flight.


This is wrong, it clearly says in the rules that KCM can be used for domestic personal travel. There is no requirement to be commuting and the new rules don’t specify a change in that part.

“Q. When can a crewmember use the KCM® access point?
A: Crewmembers can utilize the KCM access points for both business and personal use (except when traveling internationally for personal travel – see bullet points below). TSA Officers do not make a determination as to whether a crewmember is on active duty for a flight, traveling for business, or traveling for personal reasons. TSA Officers should not ask crewmembers their reason for using KCM. Crewmembers must have the required identification to use KCM. The crewmember’s airline also must participate in KCM in order to be eligible...”

Taken from the KCM FAQ...
 
alasizon
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:00 am

SoCalFlyer wrote:
Well that didn’t last long. Was there that much abuse, I wonder.

This also jives with the new requirement at many airports where the access to the sterile side was closed for most employees unless they went through TSA screening (i.e. no longer going through the doors behind the ticket counter).

SocalApproach wrote:
Longhornmaniac wrote:
I'm curious to see how this will be enforced. Many 135 operators don't have a traditional uniform.


And I assume the TSA doesn’t teach or update their training often enough to show what uniforms look like. Back when I was flying for VX we just started flying to EWR and the TSA agent who probably hadn’t encountered anyone from VX yet didn’t believe what I was wearing was in fact an official uniform.


Most TSA agents don't even know what our badges look like half the time. I'm not a crew member so my badge doesn't say crew on it but I've gotten stopped so many times while going through the checkpoint on my way to my office because they think my badge is fake (mind you, I'm also wearing airport issued ID on my arm plus a company lanyard). I even had a TSA agent refuse me entry to the sterile side because he thought my ID was fake.
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
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Super80Fan
Posts: 1602
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Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:06 am

Most working for the TSA aren't smart enough to begin with, add in this crap and it's going to be rough. Hopefully the unions pick up on this.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
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SuseJ772
Posts: 880
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:13 am

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:08 am

What was abused? I still don’t understand the need for the change.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
evank516
Posts: 1953
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Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:17 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Most working for the TSA aren't smart enough to begin with, add in this crap and it's going to be rough. Hopefully the unions pick up on this.


You basically took the words right out of my mouth. They screw up all the time all the while making it more annoying for people to travel with all of these procedures. KCMs have more intelligence (and training) in one finger than about 5 TSA Agents running a checkpoint.
 
StinkyPinky
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:21 am

SuseJ772 wrote:
What was abused? I still don’t understand the need for the change.


Exactly. What does requiring a uniform change? How does that make any difference? Big step backwards.
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 669
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Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:19 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
What was abused? I still don’t understand the need for the change.


I fly as an international purser. On a trip to LHR last year, one of the flight attendants in my crew had a 10-inch steak knife in her bag. Of course, when going through security at LHR, they found it. When I asked her what she was thinking, she told me that she usually flies domestic trips and only ever goes through KCM, so it’s not a problem. She forgot about it in her bag. Why she would need a knife like that on her layovers to begin with boggles my mind, but I digress. So it could be that instances such as this one are why we’re getting an increase of bag searches.
 
Blockplus
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:55 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:50 pm

[list=][/list]If there is one constant, it is follow the flight attendants. I’m sure the root cause it linked to that group. Our company stopped linking fa hotels to pilot hotels because the fas kept getting us kicked out. I would be willing to bet it is visibility problems with passengers seeing people in booty shorts and crop tops getting to go to the short line. I’m not just talking women here. It is disturbing seeing what some people wear to the airport.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 340
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Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:18 pm

I don't see how discussing a safety-sensitive issue on such a public forum is the right thing to do...
 
kabq737
Moderator
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Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:04 pm

Hmmmm this one is a head scratcher.

Anyone can buy pilot uniform shirts. Then it’s just a matter of having proper ID which brings us back to square one.

I’m not saying it’s impossible there’s good reason for this but if there is I’d really like to see it.
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SoCalFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:52 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:

And I assume the TSA doesn’t teach or update their training often enough to show what uniforms look like. Back when I was flying for VX we just started flying to EWR and the TSA agent who probably hadn’t encountered anyone from VX yet didn’t believe what I was wearing was in fact an official uniform.

It’s unfortunate we can’t take advantage of KCM in plain clothes now as I’m a commuter too. It’s not comfortable to fly standby in your uniform and the time it would take to change out of my uniform once going through KCM I might as well just stand in the precheck line with every other passenger



I agree, very unfortunate, and I don’t believe you’re allowed to change into plain clothes once through KCM in uniform either.


According to what regulation? Or what document?


As far as I’ve known, however you Enter KCM, and I believe any TSA check point, you have to stay in the same clothing until you exit the sterile area at your destination. I’m not sure about regular TSA sad I said, but I do know that you can’t go through KCM in uniform and then change to regular clothing. I’ve actually seen TSA with my own 2 eyes stop someone from boarding a plane for doing so, and violated them on KCM abuse.
 
SoCalFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 47
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Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:59 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
I don't see how discussing a safety-sensitive issue on such a public forum is the right thing to do...



What’s safety sensitive? The same information is available on a public website. It’s all over forums and people’s Facebook pages. You can find out anything about KCM by just going to their website.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3112
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:30 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:


I agree, very unfortunate, and I don’t believe you’re allowed to change into plain clothes once through KCM in uniform either.


According to what regulation? Or what document?


As far as I’ve known, however you Enter KCM, and I believe any TSA check point, you have to stay in the same clothing until you exit the sterile area at your destination. I’m not sure about regular TSA sad I said, but I do know that you can’t go through KCM in uniform and then change to regular clothing. I’ve actually seen TSA with my own 2 eyes stop someone from boarding a plane for doing so, and violated them on KCM abuse.


I'm yet to see that documented in any rules provided to me by the carrier I work for, nor has anyone else I work with been able to find it.

Just because TSA does something, doesn't mean it's actual procedure. How about the airports that make you take the badge out any kind of holder, claiming its nationwide policy, when it clearly isn't.
From my cold, dead hands
 
SoCalFlyer
Topic Author
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:16 am

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:43 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:

According to what regulation? Or what document?


As far as I’ve known, however you Enter KCM, and I believe any TSA check point, you have to stay in the same clothing until you exit the sterile area at your destination. I’m not sure about regular TSA sad I said, but I do know that you can’t go through KCM in uniform and then change to regular clothing. I’ve actually seen TSA with my own 2 eyes stop someone from boarding a plane for doing so, and violated them on KCM abuse.


I'm yet to see that documented in any rules provided to me by the carrier I work for, nor has anyone else I work with been able to find it.

Just because TSA does something, doesn't mean it's actual procedure. How about the airports that make you take the badge out any kind of holder, claiming its nationwide policy, when it clearly isn't.


Ok lol I’m not trying to argue the point. I’m just saying it was always communicated to me by my carrier, and I know others at other carriers have been told as well, that if you enter the sterile area in uniform KCM or otherwise, you are to stay in uniform until you exit the sterile ares at your destination. That changing into plain clothes for leisure travel after entering the check point in uniform is a violation, because that is considered circumventing the rules(liquids), etc. I’ve known that since day one that’s prohibited, and my airline has made this known on more than one occasion.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3112
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:55 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
SoCalFlyer wrote:

As far as I’ve known, however you Enter KCM, and I believe any TSA check point, you have to stay in the same clothing until you exit the sterile area at your destination. I’m not sure about regular TSA sad I said, but I do know that you can’t go through KCM in uniform and then change to regular clothing. I’ve actually seen TSA with my own 2 eyes stop someone from boarding a plane for doing so, and violated them on KCM abuse.


I'm yet to see that documented in any rules provided to me by the carrier I work for, nor has anyone else I work with been able to find it.

Just because TSA does something, doesn't mean it's actual procedure. How about the airports that make you take the badge out any kind of holder, claiming its nationwide policy, when it clearly isn't.


Ok lol I’m not trying to argue the point. I’m just saying it was always communicated to me by my carrier, and I know others at other carriers have been told as well, that if you enter the sterile area in uniform KCM or otherwise, you are to stay in uniform until you exit the sterile ares at your destination. That changing into plain clothes for leisure travel after entering the check point in uniform is a violation, because that is considered circumventing the rules(liquids), etc. I’ve known that since day one that’s prohibited, and my airline has made this known on more than one occasion.


I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying this is once again, the TSA doing whatever the hell the want, all in the name of "aviation safety," without having documented procedures in place.
From my cold, dead hands
 
Judge1310
Posts: 340
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:35 pm

SoCalFlyer wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
I don't see how discussing a safety-sensitive issue on such a public forum is the right thing to do...



What’s safety sensitive? The same information is available on a public website. It’s all over forums and people’s Facebook pages. You can find out anything about KCM by just going to their website.


I'm sorry, but as a long time vet in this industry I get a little anxious when I see issues about employee access to the sterile area being discussed out in the open. I'm very aware about the KCM website -- doesn't mean we ought to be necessarily discussing it here. Just because something is out there doesn't mean one should make it easier to locate. But whatever floats your boat. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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UPlog
Posts: 386
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Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:09 am

 
twicearound
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:11 pm

Blockplus wrote:
[list=][/list]If there is one constant, it is follow the flight attendants. I’m sure the root cause it linked to that group. Our company stopped linking fa hotels to pilot hotels because the fas kept getting us kicked out. I would be willing to bet it is visibility problems with passengers seeing people in booty shorts and crop tops getting to go to the short line. I’m not just talking women here. It is disturbing seeing what some people wear to the airport.

Or maybe it was the drunk pilot in MSP, who changed into plain clothes to go through to not be detected. Rocks in glass houses my friend.
 
Blockplus
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:55 pm

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:42 pm

twicearound wrote:
Blockplus wrote:
[list=][/list]If there is one constant, it is follow the flight attendants. I’m sure the root cause it linked to that group. Our company stopped linking fa hotels to pilot hotels because the fas kept getting us kicked out. I would be willing to bet it is visibility problems with passengers seeing people in booty shorts and crop tops getting to go to the short line. I’m not just talking women here. It is disturbing seeing what some people wear to the airport.

Or maybe it was the drunk pilot in MSP, who changed into plain clothes to go through to not be detected. Rocks in glass houses my friend.


Doubtful.. The new randomness that isn’t so random is looking for something. In someone’s bag. Most agents I’ve come across smell for booze as a normal part of business.
 
cvg2lga
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:48 am

Re: TSA changes rules for KCM starting August 28th

Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:33 am

evank516 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Most working for the TSA aren't smart enough to begin with, add in this crap and it's going to be rough. Hopefully the unions pick up on this.


You basically took the words right out of my mouth. They screw up all the time all the while making it more annoying for people to travel with all of these procedures. KCMs have more intelligence (and training) in one finger than about 5 TSA Agents running a checkpoint.


Don't be so full of yourselves. Not everyone who flies a plane is a genius, despite training and a college education.
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.

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