Vladex
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Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:04 pm

A380 was always meant for city carriers as a competitive size advantage. It would probably help them compete with EK and SQ , themselves being a city state, and they are decidedly below them in terms of prestige even if they are much the same. They fly to their European destinations in bunches so it fits the profile. The only thing that might have come up is cargo and Hong Kong being the biggest cargo port but even then it's less than 10% of their revenue and they have a dedicated cargo division. They have been losing money recently as well before the protests.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:01 pm

Why would it help them?
They did the math's and it didn't work out in there favour.

There product is way way way better then EK's, and on par with SQ .
Yes they don't have a shower, but they have stunning lounges, a great soft and hard product I rather see them invest in that then a penis-context "who has the biggest (plane)'.
A A380 doens't give you prestige on it's own.

It's the same everytime someone ask's this question, the numbers don't add up
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Vladex
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:13 pm

FlyRow wrote:
Why would it help them?
They did the math's and it didn't work out in there favour.

There product is way way way better then EK's, and on par with SQ .
Yes they don't have a shower, but they have stunning lounges, a great soft and hard product I rather see them invest in that then a penis-context "who has the biggest (plane)'.
A A380 doens't give you prestige on it's own.

It's the same everytime someone ask's this question, the numbers don't add up


They have been losing money so they did some bad math or rather have had bad assumptions. It's a city state so they need all the advantage they can get and the main one is the aircraft size. They are decidedly below EK and SQ as by the many reviews.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:41 pm

FlyRow wrote:

There product is way way way better then EK's, and on par with SQ .
Yes they don't have a shower, but they have stunning lounges, a great soft and hard product

That is just your opinion but the majority do not agree with you.
Anyways, the A380 seems to work for EK and not for CX and that's why CX does not have any.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:52 am

IMHO, in retrospect, it's actually one of the few decisions during that era that CX made the correct call.

Yes, on paper CX can use, and fill, a few A380, especially on trunk routes like HKG-LHR/SFO/LAX/JFK/SYD. It stops there, though, and thus, it'll be a subfleet of maybe 10 planes, at max 20.

As other airlines had shown (i.e. KE/OZ or even TG/MH), they are struggling to find routes to put those A380 on. Even SQ is not exactly clamoring for A380s, being the first airlines to retire A380 (although they just replace them with new A380s).

Side note - CX only compete with EK and SQ on Europe-East Asia/AusNZ. CX backbone is mainland PRC-everywhere else (Mainly Australia, something that CZ competes heavily on; there's also Taiwan but that was nowhere near a moneymaker that it was with the availability of cross-strait flights), along with US (or Japan/South Korea/Taiwan)-SE Asia, when it comes to transit traffic.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:30 pm

[quote="zakuivcustom"CX backbone is mainland PRC-everywhere else[/quote]

Why don't mainland Chinese carriers excel in this area? Does it have something to do with 80% of PRC airspace being restricted to military (PLAAF) use?
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:56 pm

leftcoast8 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
CX backbone is mainland PRC-everywhere else


Why don't mainland Chinese carriers excel in this area? Does it have something to do with 80% of PRC airspace being restricted to military (PLAAF) use?


Chinese carriers are indeed increasingly exceling in that area, to the detriment of CX/KA.

Doesn’t change the fact that it is still one of the core transit traffic at CX (and HKG) in general. Why do you think CX kowtow so quickly to CAAC otherwise during the current “white terror” BS?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oag.co ... amp%3Dtrue

China-a bunch of places definitely dominate the transfer traffic. You also see US-Thailand/Philippines/Vietnam in there, along with a few Taiwan/Japan-SE Asia traffic flow.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
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SJL
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:15 am

They answer that questions themselves here:

http://youtu.be/4qtDgCjdYGU
 
citationjet
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:43 pm

SJL wrote:
They answer that questions themselves here:

http://youtu.be/4qtDgCjdYGU


Great link. A Cathay Pacific Passenger Network Manager answers the question about why no A380 on the video.
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Vladex
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:48 am

SJL wrote:
They answer that questions themselves here:

http://youtu.be/4qtDgCjdYGU


He says things that he heard somewhere but that doesn't apply or that applies in the opposite. Is Cathay really a legacy? If it is , it's still a city state which carry advantages and limitations. It's stupid to talk about frequency when you have one hub.
He says A380 has a long turn around time which it doesn't since it can be loaded and disembarked from each deck and it is irrelevant for long haul since no one wants 30 minute long haul turnarounds anyway
https://www.iflya380.com/fly-smart/hass ... origin=YTO

He says that Cathay prefers frequency over size and mentions London in particular and according to the Honk Kong airport they have 5 departures , 3 of which are 30 minutes from each other. It's much the same with their other European flights, there is no frequency , just a bunch of flights around midnight. Having more flights only dilutes yields since most people are hunting for cheap fares the more flights there are.
https://www.hongkongairport.com/en/flig ... enger.page

23:55 Cathay PacificCathay PacificCX 251 London/LHR T1

00:15 Cathay PacificCathay PacificCX 237 London/LHR T1

00:25 Cathay PacificCathay PacificCX 255 London/LHR T1

09:10 Cathay PacificCathay PacificCX 257 London/LHR T1

14:40 Cathay PacificCathay PacificCX 253 London/LHR T1

As for cargo, it's debatable since HK is the biggest cargo port but it never hurt EK or SQ and they have all dedicated cargo operation.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:08 pm

Vladex wrote:
SJL wrote:
They answer that questions themselves here:

http://youtu.be/4qtDgCjdYGU


He says things that he heard somewhere but that doesn't apply or that applies in the opposite.


What he is saying is CX policy. Obviously, given that it is released by CX's PR department, his statements have been reviewed by his superiors and their PR department. You certainly don't want someone saying something against company policy or something that might impact future negotiations with Airbus or Boeing.

It is true that the A380 might actually make more sense for LHR but there aren't that many routes that CX flies that would have that kind of demand. SFO currently fills two 77Ws and an A359, which could be expanded to 2xA380 but at the cost of frequency and cargo. Moreover, the A380 would only work on very few routes and the A380 doesn't haul a lot of cargo compared to the 777 or A350. From a passenger perspective, the A380 is probably good for only SYD, LHR, JFK, SFO, and LAX. That would introduce a small fleet of A380s, maybe around 12-20, which would introduce all kinds of issues with fleet rotation and operational flexibility.
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Vladex
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:36 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Vladex wrote:
SJL wrote:
They answer that questions themselves here:

http://youtu.be/4qtDgCjdYGU


He says things that he heard somewhere but that doesn't apply or that applies in the opposite.


What he is saying is CX policy. Obviously, given that it is released by CX's PR department, his statements have been reviewed by his superiors and their PR department. You certainly don't want someone saying something against company policy or something that might impact future negotiations with Airbus or Boeing.

It is true that the A380 might actually make more sense for LHR but there aren't that many routes that CX flies that would have that kind of demand. SFO currently fills two 77Ws and an A359, which could be expanded to 2xA380 but at the cost of frequency and cargo. Moreover, the A380 would only work on very few routes and the A380 doesn't haul a lot of cargo compared to the 777 or A350. From a passenger perspective, the A380 is probably good for only SYD, LHR, JFK, SFO, and LAX. That would introduce a small fleet of A380s, maybe around 12-20, which would introduce all kinds of issues with fleet rotation and operational flexibility.

Policies of a public company are always controversial since they trading short term interests with long term interests, private interests with public interests. I am pointing out contradictions in the statements which is typical when public officials are covering for private interests. If he said something non offensive like we just ordered something different and can't go back, that would be understandable. Talking out easily refutable non sense is usually done to hide or obfuscate something or more than likely to confuse the competition. It's definitely not because of the turnaround times as mentioned here

In fact, Singapore and other carriers have been operating at the remodeled gates for several months. Boyd said the turn time for an A380, from the time it arrives at the gate until the time it leaves, is 110 minutes to 135 minutes, depending on the airport. (At Singapore Changi Airport, the turn time is 110 minutes)
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Why didn't Cathay Pacific order A380?

Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:33 pm

Cathay Pacific Cargo is the fourth largest cargo airline in the world, only beaten by FedEx/UPS and Emirates SkyCargo. On the other hand, KE, CZ, SQ and OZ are the 5th/10th/11th/19th busiest cargo airlines, and they still managed to make A380s work. Why couldn't Cathay? Is it a capacity problem at HKG?

Off topic aside: I'm shocked not to see Thai Airways or MASkargo on the list, considering the huge manufacturing base in Thailand/Malaysia.

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