Laufgas
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Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:21 pm

Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:36 pm

Hi Guys,

I've stumbled across this forum and hopefully you might help me in a way.

4 years ago I moved to Spain from Israel. I took my French bulldog with me with Iberia from Madrid to Tel Aviv. She was in the cargo and everything went well.

Now I'm about to leave Spain and return to Israel, and all the European airlines stopped flying smashed faces breeds since there were death cases.

The airlines accept those breeds only if they are less than 8kg which is useless as most bulldogs weigh way more.

So I'm pretty much stuck and I don't know what to do

Any help/insights will be much appreciated.

Thanks
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:28 pm

Laufgas wrote:
Hi Guys,

I've stumbled across this forum and hopefully you might help me in a way.

4 years ago I moved to Spain from Israel. I took my French bulldog with me with Iberia from Madrid to Tel Aviv. She was in the cargo and everything went well.

Now I'm about to leave Spain and return to Israel, and all the European airlines stopped flying smashed faces breeds since there were death cases.

The airlines accept those breeds only if they are less than 8kg which is useless as most bulldogs weigh way more.

So I'm pretty much stuck and I don't know what to do

Any help/insights will be much appreciated.

Thanks

I have moved your thread to the Travel Forum, as that's the more appropriate place for this discussion.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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longhauler
Posts: 6311
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:02 pm

Do European (or Israeli) airlines not offer the opportunity for your dog to ride in the cabin with you for a fee? Even up to purchasing a seat for your pup.

If not, then it would be an advenurous train journey!

For the record, as I am sure you have researched, the issues with brachycephalic breeds in reduced oxygen environments is a real issue, especially with the added stress of a dark, noisy cargo hold.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
debonair
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:51 pm

Not true, Lufthansa is still accepting French Bulldogs, albeit in containers which have to be at least 10cm larger in height and length as the dog transported. BTW FRA is an excellent transit point for pets!
 
VSMUT
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:08 am

debonair wrote:
Not true, Lufthansa is still accepting French Bulldogs, albeit in containers which have to be at least 10cm larger in height and length as the dog transported. BTW FRA is an excellent transit point for pets!


https://www.lufthansa.com/ae/en/animals ... on-baggage

It says maximum 8 kg.
 
debonair
Posts: 3497
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:44 am

VSMUT wrote:
https://www.lufthansa.com/ae/en/animals-as-additional-carry-on-baggage

It says maximum 8 kg.


Not true, only for PETC (Pet in Cabin):
"Dogs and cats, who weigh more than 8 kg including their transport container, may not be transported in the cabin."


Travelling as AVIH in hold it shouldn't be a problem - the correct link: https://www.lufthansa.com/ae/en/dangerous-dogs
"Dogs (Bulldog (all breeds with the exception of the American Bulldog)) belonging to snub-nosed breeds have anatomically restricted airways with the accompanying difficulty in breathing. The stress caused by transportation and/or high temperatures at the departure, transfer and destination airports can cause circulatory issues that may result in breathing problems. As a result your pet could suffer serious health problems or even die during the journey.

For this reason, Lufthansa generally advises against transporting these breeds.

For the transport of snub-nosed animals as excess baggage in the air-conditioned cargo hold, the following additional requirement applies to the ​transport container: The container must be large enough to allow the standing animal at least 10 cm clearance from the sides and top of the container."
 
Jetty
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:08 pm

Do you need the bulldog for emotional support?
 
ChrisKen
Posts: 799
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:21 pm

Jetty wrote:
Do you need the bulldog for emotional support?

Untrained emotional support animals are not allowed in the cabin and rightly so.

The OP has misread the regulations. His bulldog can travel in the hold (as it's over 8kg), in a suitable container, with his chosen airline.
(Although they (Lufty) advise against it from an animal welfare point of view, since pug nosed breeds fair less well, as they would in the main cabin too).
 
Laufgas
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:21 pm

Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:00 pm

Yes, I found out some airlines will accept my dog in the cargo.

I'm not a fan of this option at all, but it seems like I have no choice.

Is the cargo where they place dogs dark?
 
FGITD
Posts: 448
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:39 am

Laufgas wrote:
Yes, I found out some airlines will accept my dog in the cargo.

I'm not a fan of this option at all, but it seems like I have no choice.

Is the cargo where they place dogs dark?


Yes, it is. Regardless of on a pallet or bulk loaded.

I've loaded a great many dogs into airplanes over the years, both as cargo and pax. I've never witnessed a single case of mistreatment, carelessness, or recklessness on behalf of the folks in charge of loading the animal. I've even seen guys go out of their way to grab water for the animals. I have absolute faith in the controllable aspects of pets as cargo.

With that said, I would never check in my own animals. Some don't mind, some seem to actually enjoy it (looking at you, labs) but regardless, it is stressful. It's loud, hot or cold, and there are just too many factors. And French bulldogs are notorious for having difficulties flying.

I realize it may not be possible for Spain to Israel, but I would absolutely recommend you either bring your pup in cabin, or perhaps consider a different means of transportation.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:51 am

longhauler wrote:
Do European (or Israeli) airlines not offer the opportunity for your dog to ride in the cabin with you for a fee? Even up to purchasing a seat for your pup.


Generally no, that's something really American. European airlines do not allow for this unless it is a service animal (with all paperwork provided). Even emotional support animals are not allowed on board.

By the way, another option would be to drive to Israel instead of fly. There is a ferry from Lavrio (just south of Athens) to Haifa that you can take. I guess it's better for the dog to be in the car and on the boat than in a plane.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1729
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:14 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
By the way, another option would be to drive to Israel instead of fly. There is a ferry from Lavrio (just south of Athens) to Haifa that you can take. I guess it's better for the dog to be in the car and on the boat than in a plane.

I cannot find a ferry service that crosses the Med east to west in one go, but there are other options if you are prepared to break your journey in Italy, and again in Greece.

Both Grimaldi Lines and ViaMare offer ferries from Barcelona to Civitavecchia on the west coast of Italy.
I would then take a train or one-way car hire down to Brindisi (650 km= 7hrs) followed by a ferry crossing to Patras.
You then need to hire another car in Greece, or find public transport from Patras to Lavrio (270km = 3hrs)

Finally Lavrio - Haifa (ViaMare ferry)

Three ferries, and two journeys by land travel isn't going to be quick, but it is a solution, and it could be quite an adventure. :bigthumbsup:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:13 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
By the way, another option would be to drive to Israel instead of fly. There is a ferry from Lavrio (just south of Athens) to Haifa that you can take. I guess it's better for the dog to be in the car and on the boat than in a plane.

I cannot find a ferry service that crosses the Med east to west in one go, but there are other options if you are prepared to break your journey in Italy, and again in Greece.

Both Grimaldi Lines and ViaMare offer ferries from Barcelona to Civitavecchia on the west coast of Italy.
I would then take a train or one-way car hire down to Brindisi (650 km= 7hrs) followed by a ferry crossing to Patras.
You then need to hire another car in Greece, or find public transport from Patras to Lavrio (270km = 3hrs)

Finally Lavrio - Haifa (ViaMare ferry)

Three ferries, and two journeys by land travel isn't going to be quick, but it is a solution, and it could be quite an adventure. :bigthumbsup:


Sounds way more fun than cramming into an economy seat. The entire trip becomes an experience in itself!
 
Laufgas
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:21 pm

Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:42 pm

FGITD wrote:
Laufgas wrote:
Yes, I found out some airlines will accept my dog in the cargo.

I'm not a fan of this option at all, but it seems like I have no choice.

Is the cargo where they place dogs dark?


Yes, it is. Regardless of on a pallet or bulk loaded.

I've loaded a great many dogs into airplanes over the years, both as cargo and pax. I've never witnessed a single case of mistreatment, carelessness, or recklessness on behalf of the folks in charge of loading the animal. I've even seen guys go out of their way to grab water for the animals. I have absolute faith in the controllable aspects of pets as cargo.

With that said, I would never check in my own animals. Some don't mind, some seem to actually enjoy it (looking at you, labs) but regardless, it is stressful. It's loud, hot or cold, and there are just too many factors. And French bulldogs are notorious for having difficulties flying.

I realize it may not be possible for Spain to Israel, but I would absolutely recommend you either bring your pup in cabin, or perhaps consider a different means of transportation.



Thanks all for your replies. So the situation is like this:

As someone already replied, the option of bringing a medium sized dog to the cabin is a very American thing. I wish I could do it.

I also checked regarding the ferries, and they won't allow dogs.

If I could I would do the entire journey by car, but as an Israeli, I won't be able to cross Syria (after turkey).

My true only option is the cargo. I dislike this idea very much, but I feel I have no other options. That's why I opened this thread.


I appreciate all the comments. If anyone has an idea I would be happy to hear.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 2911
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:44 pm

Laufgas wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Laufgas wrote:
Yes, I found out some airlines will accept my dog in the cargo.

I'm not a fan of this option at all, but it seems like I have no choice.

Is the cargo where they place dogs dark?


Yes, it is. Regardless of on a pallet or bulk loaded.

I've loaded a great many dogs into airplanes over the years, both as cargo and pax. I've never witnessed a single case of mistreatment, carelessness, or recklessness on behalf of the folks in charge of loading the animal. I've even seen guys go out of their way to grab water for the animals. I have absolute faith in the controllable aspects of pets as cargo.

With that said, I would never check in my own animals. Some don't mind, some seem to actually enjoy it (looking at you, labs) but regardless, it is stressful. It's loud, hot or cold, and there are just too many factors. And French bulldogs are notorious for having difficulties flying.

I realize it may not be possible for Spain to Israel, but I would absolutely recommend you either bring your pup in cabin, or perhaps consider a different means of transportation.



Thanks all for your replies. So the situation is like this:

As someone already replied, the option of bringing a medium sized dog to the cabin is a very American thing. I wish I could do it.

I also checked regarding the ferries, and they won't allow dogs.

If I could I would do the entire journey by car, but as an Israeli, I won't be able to cross Syria (after turkey).

My true only option is the cargo. I dislike this idea very much, but I feel I have no other options. That's why I opened this thread.


I appreciate all the comments. If anyone has an idea I would be happy to hear.


Or you could try to find the dog a new home in Spain or nearby.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:45 pm

I noticed that Ethiopian Airlines allows pets in the cabin, is that one of the avenues you researched or are their restrictions the same as European carriers.

VSMUT wrote:
Or you could try to find the dog a new home in Spain or nearby.


Yikes. I’m guessing you never had a dog. They are our children and that the OP is looking at all possible solutions including driving, rail, ferry is an indication of what the answer would be to leaving him/her behind.

I feel for the OP. Cargo is not an ideal solution, but may well be the only one. Perhaps breaking the journey into two days with an overnight to recover.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
VSMUT
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:36 pm

longhauler wrote:
I noticed that Ethiopian Airlines allows pets in the cabin, is that one of the avenues you researched or are their restrictions the same as European carriers.

VSMUT wrote:
Or you could try to find the dog a new home in Spain or nearby.


Yikes. I’m guessing you never had a dog. They are our children and that the OP is looking at all possible solutions including driving, rail, ferry is an indication of what the answer would be to leaving him/her behind.


I've had loads. Many of them left in the care of others when relocating from one continent to another. Took over a number as well. They forget all about their beloved owner after a day.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:15 am

There is no passenger ferry service between Israel and Greece. Not even with Cyprus.
The only way to get there for you and your dog is by plane.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:34 am

Laufgas wrote:
I also checked regarding the ferries, and they won't allow dogs.

I didn't find this a problem.
Grimaldi Lines wrote:
Four-legged friends are welcome on board.
We consider pets all those animals legally registered according to the laws of their owner's Country.
On board all our ferries there are cabins (internal / external) where access to pets is allowed. In addition, all the pets cannot travel in seats room and common areas; however, they can be on the external decks of the vessel, where they can walk with their owners, putting leash and muzzle on them.

ViaMare may charge for your pet, with different rates depending on whether it is under, or over, 6kg.

But...….
Despite what I and another contributor wrote earlier, this guy is unfortunately correct. :oops:
P1aneMad wrote:
There is no passenger ferry service between Israel and Greece. Not even with Cyprus.

Upon further examination, the service initially offered by ViaMare between Greece and Haifa no longer exists. ViaMare need to update their website.... :roll:

That leaves the cruise ships that dock at Haifa; maybe you could book a six-day Mediterranean cruise, and then "jump ship" when you arrived in Israel? :lol:

Good luck!
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:37 am

VSMUT wrote:
I've had loads. Many of them left in the care of others when relocating from one continent to another. Took over a number as well. They forget all about their beloved owner after a day.

Ah but they don't forget. We left ours with friends for 2 1/2 years (without ever seeing her during that time) due to the UK's then much stronger quarantine laws, she certainly hadn't forgotten her family come the reunion. When you seen such reunions, you can't tell me they forget their owner the day after. They may get on with their new lot in life, but they don't forget the old.
 
Laufgas
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:21 pm

Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:17 pm

I do think that my only option is by plane.

I found out that official agents of IPATA can help out with my problem. I hope they can really help out and I will try to post here regarding the process and how it's looking.

Thanks again for everyone.

PS

I will not give my dog away. Not gonna happen... I will do whatever it takes :-)
 
wv399
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:32 pm

Re: Problem flying with my French Bulldog

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:48 pm

Laufgas wrote:
I do think that my only option is by plane.

I found out that official agents of IPATA can help out with my problem. I hope they can really help out and I will try to post here regarding the process and how it's looking.

Thanks again for everyone.

PS

I will not give my dog away. Not gonna happen... I will do whatever it takes :-)


Of COURSE you won't give your precious dog away! What about flying Delta MAD-JFK-TLV?That way you can fly her in the cabin. They won't take her as cargo. Or Air Canada MAD-YYZ-TLV.

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