WA707atMSP
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Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:06 pm

Last week, several people commented about how difficult it was for airlines to deny boarding to emotional support pets, because the rules are so vaguely worded.

It looks like the government is going to bring these regulations in line with the existing Americans with Disabilities act, which has strict guidelines on what animals can be used for emotional support, and the training they need to qualify.

https://qz.com/quartzy/1706771/flying-w ... be-banned/

I'm glad the government has recognized the concerns of airline employees and passengers, and will give airlines the legal support they need to keep all animals, other than animals that truly are trained to provide emotional support, out of the passenger cabin.
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title was misleading
 
Williamsb747
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:14 pm

Finally. Frankly this should have been enforced from day one but that’s for another day.
 
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scbriml
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:21 pm

So I can't take my emotional support giraffe on my next United flight? Outrageous.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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jumbojet
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:26 pm

scbriml wrote:
So I can't take my emotional support giraffe on my next United flight? Outrageous.


Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?
 
SEU
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:28 pm

jumbojet wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So I can't take my emotional support giraffe on my next United flight? Outrageous.


Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?


That's the joke....
 
MIflyer12
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:31 pm

I think the OP's reading of the linked article is very generous. This is nothing but the Feds saying they plan to go forward with a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking later in 2019. Often no actual rules are created; those that do get created seldom get created and implemented quickly.
 
airtran737
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:52 pm

What would help is if more captains grew a spine and didn't allow these animals on their planes. There's a word that trumps the ACAA and that word is "safety". If a captain doesn't feel that the situation is safe, then he/she can refuse to take the passenger./animal.
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EAARbrat
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:04 pm

This is not and has never been about Emotional support. People who truly need their ESA have the paperwork necessary from their doctor and training for the most part is irrelevant as real ESA's (dogs) are calm and non aggressive. This is about the outrageous pet travel cost. 10-15 years ago it was $50 each way for a cabin sized animal to travel now its $150+ each way. Airline fee lunacy and greed created this monster. This monster must take its pets everywhere they go and nothing but a major fee cut or legislation (not holding my breath as Congress is pretty impotent).
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:06 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I think the OP's reading of the linked article is very generous. This is nothing but the Feds saying they plan to go forward with a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking later in 2019. Often no actual rules are created; those that do get created seldom get created and implemented quickly.


I'm optimistic the legislation will be changed, because the airline industry, flight crew unions, AND people who have legitimate disabilities are all in agreement about the needed changes. It's hard to oppose the proposed changes, because people who support a crackdown are able to say "fake emotional support pets are hurting people who suffer from serious disabilities".
 
mham001
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:10 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
I think the OP's reading of the linked article is very generous. This is nothing but the Feds saying they plan to go forward with a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking later in 2019. Often no actual rules are created; those that do get created seldom get created and implemented quickly.


They are beginning the process that they must follow to change the rules. The OP did not insinuate anything more.
 
AA623BDLSJU
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:06 pm

Aw phooey! I guess this I cannot bring my emotional support chicken.

Image
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Seabear
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:07 pm

Oy, not this again... I'm 10000000.01% in favor of harmonizing the ADA and ACAA regarding "service" vs "emotional support" animals. Bona fide Service Animals, no problem. Those animals are rigorously screened and trained to provide a SERVICE - not furry fetish objects. Bottom line - Every other animal rides in the cargo hold, or better yet, stays home.
 
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ER757
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:14 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I think the OP's reading of the linked article is very generous. This is nothing but the Feds saying they plan to go forward with a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking later in 2019. Often no actual rules are created; those that do get created seldom get created and implemented quickly.


I'm optimistic the legislation will be changed, because the airline industry, flight crew unions, AND people who have legitimate disabilities are all in agreement about the needed changes. It's hard to oppose the proposed changes, because people who support a crackdown are able to say "fake emotional support pets are hurting people who suffer from serious disabilities".

:checkmark: legislation can't come soon enough! I could go on a rant here about the fake ESA's but it's all been said 100 times - hopefully things ARE harder in the future and standards are required to be met.
 
richierich
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:18 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
Last week, several people commented about how difficult it was for airlines to deny boarding to emotional support pets, because the rules are so vaguely worded.

It looks like the government is going to bring these regulations in line with the existing Americans with Disabilities act, which has strict guidelines on what animals can be used for emotional support, and the training they need to qualify.

https://qz.com/quartzy/1706771/flying-w ... be-banned/

I'm glad the government has recognized the concerns of airline employees and passengers, and will give airlines the legal support they need to keep all animals, other than animals that truly are trained to provide emotional support, out of the passenger cabin.


Airlines charge $100-150 per flight for 'pets.' These are cats and small dogs that stay under the seat typically; doesn't sound like they are going anywhere.
None shall pass!!!!
 
alan3
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:18 pm

Good.

Swear to God if I have to read one more story or see one more local news segment about that woman who keeps taking her horse on American Airlines (this isn't a joke btw)
 
GBNWB
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:41 pm

Thankfully this doesn't seem to be a big thing in the UK. Most people here seem able to leave the house without a zoo in tow.
 
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spinotter
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:41 pm

jumbojet wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So I can't take my emotional support giraffe on my next United flight? Outrageous.


Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?


It's not outside the range of what is conceivable, but I doubt that anyone would consider bringing a giraffe on an airplane - but then, you never know.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:48 pm

When the day comes that one of our overlords...err, excuse me, "lawmakers" has to be squeezed into their seat next to an emotional support miniature horse, then I'll believe that something will change.

Until then, they'll drag their feet until there is a serious incident.

I'd like to be more optimistic, but this country doesn't act - it "reacts".
 
airtrantpa
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:49 pm

jumbojet wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So I can't take my emotional support giraffe on my next United flight? Outrageous.


Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?



I have one his name is Ralph, just kidding o do have a skunk as a pet I wonder if I can bring him on board. Sigh
AVL my new Hometown airport! Farewell TPA
 
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lightsaber
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:50 pm

Williamsb747 wrote:
Finally. Frankly this should have been enforced from day one but that’s for another day.

I pay to fly with my dog and follow all the rules.

I get treated great! Yes, $250 round trip. But traveling with my pet is a luxury.

I want emotional support pets to stop being a scam. Charge everyone and everyone is happy.

Unless you have an emotional support giraffe.

Yes I follow all rules. In a bag, < 20 pounds.

My dog sleeps all of a TCON flight.

Lightsaber
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B737MAX
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:57 pm

Only in the USA...
 
INFINITI329
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:33 pm

EAARbrat wrote:
This is not and has never been about Emotional support. People who truly need their ESA have the paperwork necessary from their doctor and training for the most part is irrelevant as real ESA's (dogs) are calm and non aggressive. This is about the outrageous pet travel cost. 10-15 years ago it was $50 each way for a cabin sized animal to travel now its $150+ each way. Airline fee lunacy and greed created this monster. This monster must take its pets everywhere they go and nothing but a major fee cut or legislation (not holding my breath as Congress is pretty impotent).


It is rather easy to get an ESA letter. You can make one up it so easy. This where the problems lie.
 
h1fl1er
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:42 pm

people who cannot fly without their pet shouldn't fly excepting seeing eye dogs or other actual service animals

the pathology of the USA's pet fetish must be confronted
 
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ER757
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:13 pm

airtrantpa wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So I can't take my emotional support giraffe on my next United flight? Outrageous.


Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?



I have one his name is Ralph, just kidding o do have a skunk as a pet I wonder if I can bring him on board. Sigh

"I have a pet fish named Eric - he's an Alibut." Having a difficult time getting a fish license for him (as well as my pet fruit bat named Eric)
 
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spinotter
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:17 pm

h1fl1er wrote:
people who cannot fly without their pet shouldn't fly excepting seeing eye dogs or other actual service animals

the pathology of the USA's pet fetish must be confronted


Agree 100%. People are pretty spoiled these days. It is hard on the pets and hard on one's fellow passengers. But it's hard to put the genie back into the bottle.
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:25 pm

SEU wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So I can't take my emotional support giraffe on my next United flight? Outrageous.


Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?


That's the joke....


He really stuck his neck out, didn’t he?
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Pyrex
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:43 pm

spinotter wrote:
h1fl1er wrote:
people who cannot fly without their pet shouldn't fly excepting seeing eye dogs or other actual service animals

the pathology of the USA's pet fetish must be confronted


Agree 100%. People are pretty spoiled these days. It is hard on the pets and hard on one's fellow passengers. But it's hard to put the genie back into the bottle.


Shouldn't really be an issue to you, though. According to your logic in the Heathrow thread, everybody should be born, live their entire lives and die within the same 60-mile radius, as in the "good old days" (you know, when average live expectancy was 30 years), so surely you can't be traveling in a plane yourself to be bothered by these animals, otherwise it would just be hypocritical...
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lightsaber
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:52 pm

spinotter wrote:
h1fl1er wrote:
people who cannot fly without their pet shouldn't fly excepting seeing eye dogs or other actual service animals

the pathology of the USA's pet fetish must be confronted


Agree 100%. People are pretty spoiled these days. It is hard on the pets and hard on one's fellow passengers. But it's hard to put the genie back into the bottle.

Do you have a problem with my above post where I pay to travel? For myself, I plan vacations around my kids and per. If I cannot fly with my pet, I do not fly on vacation.

I agree the emotional support is a problem. Hard on other passengers? How? I've yet to have a passenger next to me notice my dog. Pugs sleep in the bag.

Neil
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EAARbrat
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:58 pm

lightsaber wrote:
spinotter wrote:
Do you have a problem with my above post where I pay to travel? For myself, I plan vacations around my kids and per. If I cannot fly with my pet, I do not fly on vacation.

I agree the emotional support is a problem. Hard on other passengers? How? I've yet to have a passenger next to me notice my dog. Pugs sleep in the bag.

Neil


BRAVO!

For all the Mellenialism out there it amazes me the Dictatorship they are advocating...
 
EAARbrat
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:06 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
It is rather easy to get an ESA letter. You can make one up it so easy. This where the problems lie.


On what planet? Psychiatric Specialist or treating Doctors information (license#, contact number, etc.) must be on the letter and signed by them. The diagnostic code also must be included in the letter. If the agent thinks its bogus make the call to the professional. It could go one step further for submittal of the letter at booking by the passenger and verified by the airline.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:41 pm

EAARbrat wrote:
INFINITI329 wrote:
It is rather easy to get an ESA letter. You can make one up it so easy. This where the problems lie.


On what planet? Psychiatric Specialist or treating Doctors information (license#, contact number, etc.) must be on the letter and signed by them. The diagnostic code also must be included in the letter. If the agent thinks its bogus make the call to the professional. It could go one step further for submittal of the letter at booking by the passenger and verified by the airline.

On what planet? There are hundreds of online "specialists" that will issue an ESA letter for $$$, without seeing the human or the pet.
 
rampbro
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:09 pm

ER757 wrote:
"I have a pet fish named Eric - he's an Alibut." Having a difficult time getting a fish license for him (as well as my pet fruit bat named Eric)


Are all your pets named Eric?
 
md11sdf
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:27 pm

ANYONE who's not capable of spending a couple of hours on an airplane without an 'emotional support animal' SHOULDN'T by flying, or maybe even driving a car!!
What has this world come to? It makes me sick...
Last edited by md11sdf on Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AEROFAN
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:53 pm

WesternDC6B wrote:
SEU wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?


That's the joke....


He really stuck his neck out, didn’t he?


:rotfl: :rotfl: I see what you did there :D
 
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scbriml
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:46 pm

ER757 wrote:
airtrantpa wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?



I have one his name is Ralph, just kidding o do have a skunk as a pet I wonder if I can bring him on board. Sigh

"I have a pet fish named Eric - he's an Alibut." Having a difficult time getting a fish license for him (as well as my pet fruit bat named Eric)


"How did you know my name is Eric?"
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northstardc4m
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:13 am

jumbojet wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So I can't take my emotional support giraffe on my next United flight? Outrageous.


Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?
All I could think of...

https://youtu.be/t3pfWh1YBws



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EA CO AS
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:14 am

For what it’s worth, airlines are starting to crack down on abuse by digging into those online “letter factories” where they’ll certify your “need” for a fee and either no actual assessment or where they just diagnose you over the phone.

That’s all I’ll say on the matter but let’s just say the industry as a whole has had enough of the abuse and is taking steps to rein it in substantially.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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USAirKid
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:06 am

EA CO AS wrote:
For what it’s worth, airlines are starting to crack down on abuse by digging into those online “letter factories” where they’ll certify your “need” for a fee and either no actual assessment or where they just diagnose you over the phone.

That’s all I’ll say on the matter but let’s just say the industry as a whole has had enough of the abuse and is taking steps to rein it in substantially.



Excellent. In a similar situation California is now cracking down on doctors who will write a medical exemption for any child, even without that child actually having a medical need recognized by any medical associations.
 
OMAAbound
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:16 am

Will I still be able to take my Emotional Support Mila Kunis with me?

OMAA
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vegas005
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:56 am

Americans will always cheat the system. Disney allowed families to accompany disabled family members on rides and allowed them to go to the front of the line through special entrance areas. Problem is families started sticking kids in wheelchairs so they could cut to the front of the line. Disney caught on to this and stopped the nonsense. Same goes for emotional support animals. If they are needed to fly, then take the train.
 
Toinou
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:09 am

WA707atMSP wrote:
I'm optimistic the legislation will be changed, because the airline industry, flight crew unions, AND people who have legitimate disabilities are all in agreement about the needed changes. It's hard to oppose the proposed changes, because people who support a crackdown are able to say "fake emotional support pets are hurting people who suffer from serious disabilities".


I would just be afraid with the fact that the legislation changes may harm people with real needs. It happen almost every time and (I can from a personal experience) can make life of disabled people very difficult. Not so much because of the disability but because you have tons of administrative barriers designed to prevent the very little minority that creates problems. So, in a very personal view, I would prefer to accept some isolated excesses instead of harming a vast majority.
 
ryanov
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:22 am

EAARbrat wrote:
This is not and has never been about Emotional support. People who truly need their ESA have the paperwork necessary from their doctor and training for the most part is irrelevant as real ESA's (dogs) are calm and non aggressive. This is about the outrageous pet travel cost. 10-15 years ago it was $50 each way for a cabin sized animal to travel now its $150+ each way. Airline fee lunacy and greed created this monster. This monster must take its pets everywhere they go and nothing but a major fee cut or legislation (not holding my breath as Congress is pretty impotent).

I don't think that every single emotional support animal is a fake emotional support animal, but you're absolutely right, a lot of this is about fees. It's not reasonable to charge so much money for something that has to fit under the seat in the first place. I'm not someone who brings my dog everywhere I go, but occasionally there's a reason, and $250 for a round trip is nearly as much as a passenger who uses a seat.

This board, generally, seems to have a lot of "Archie Bunker" types on here who love to talk about how civilization is going straight to hell, and want people off their lawn, etc. But I'll ask: how many people have had a problem with a dog even once on an actual flight that they've taken? I'm not talking about "this is a growing problem in the industry," but actual personal experience. I fly about 50 times a year and can only recall having seen a dog on a plane a handful of times, and the one time it affected me at all was an actual service dog of some kind who was large and would occasionally and up partly under my seat when he'd shift around. I survived the trip.
 
FSflyer899
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:38 am

The thing is people take granted of the system and start flying all sorts of animals with them, which some should not be in close proximity with people. They can choose Fedex, DHL, UPS, Cargolux, etc., which have been flying animals like horses, pandas, and even whales all over the globe.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:24 am

Why does this seems to be a usa only problem?
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ltbewr
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:50 am

As to the USA, ESA's are a 'grey area' of our Americans with Disabilities Act. Airlines (and many businesses) tend to give in to the questionable cases out of fear of lawsuits or harassment on social media. Ground staff don't want to hold up a flight taking off due to a challenge of a ESA or fear of physical or social media assault.

The issue with ESA's is that many are not trained, unlike a 'seeing eye' dog to be around people and we have seen situations of biting from them which means liability risks to an airline. There is also the issues with the discharge of wastes from the animal, that many don't like pets as well as allergies from them.

I suspect some of the rise of the ESA issue has to do with the death of several pets back in the 1990's when transported as cargo, bans from being able to transport them in summer and winter months, along with the significant increase in fees for cargo transportation.
 
Woofbite
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Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:16 pm

spinotter wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
scbriml wrote:
So I can't take my emotional support giraffe on my next United flight? Outrageous.


Seriously, who has a giraffe as a pet to begin with?


It's not outside the range of what is conceivable, but I doubt that anyone would consider bringing a giraffe on an airplane - but then, you never know.


You wouldn't think someone would try to bring a peacock on board either, but they did.
 
acentauri
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:46 pm

My emotional support Boa was accused of swallowing an emotional support cat, when the cat just vanished from the aircraft during lunch service. I offered a replacement cat to the distressed owner. We settled for an emotional support hyena instead, with the proviso that the owner would never take a (revenge) flight with me and my Boa. :biggrin: :biggrin:
 
mikeinatlanta
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Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:43 pm

Pretty much any pet (real pet, not exotic whatever) is an emotional support animal, that's why we have pets in the first place. So let's cut to the chase. Since emotional support doesn't require any training, the real issue boils down to whether the owner has a diagnosed mental condition. So getting to the conclusion it's basically people with diagnosed mental conditions get to fly their pets for free, while those without mental conditions must pay a fairly absurd price to do the same.

We all know where this will go when someone files a law suit rightfully alleging that they are being discriminated against because of NOT having a mental condition. I have to pay an outrageous fee for doing exactly the same thing as someone with a mental condition, even though both animals do exactly the same thing.

There is only one way to solve this, and that is to fully segregate emotional support from service, they are not the same thing.
Aircraft Maintenance Professional since 1979.
 
EAARbrat
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:39 am

Re: MAJOR crackdown on "Emotional Support" pets on the way

Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:44 am

WayexTDI wrote:

On what planet? There are hundreds of online "specialists" that will issue an ESA letter for $$$, without seeing the human or the pet.[/quote]

On my planet that's illegal and would be in the crooked world we live in if the "specialist" would be legally responsible and needed to provide in effect liability policy.
 
hondah35
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Re: Flying with an emotional support animal may soon get a whole lot more difficult

Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:20 am

The horse incident was when this all collapsed into farce. Nobody involved seemed to realize it, but that incident basically made the flight crew look like fools for allowing that obvious safety hazard to occur. It also betrayed the entire US aviation safety regulatory structure as useless and impotent in the face of a crazed woman and her horse. In short, everyone looked like idiots.

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