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ChrisNH38
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Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:21 pm

I was wondering what the general consensus is when looking at what AA is doing in PHL versus what DL is doing in BOS. Is this an ‘apples to apples’ comparison? Obviously AA has a head start, but DL is really growing their BOS operation rapidly.
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Cubsrule
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:25 pm

I’m not sure how we would compare. BOS will always be more fragmented, and DL will never have the gates available to it that AA has at PHL.
Last edited by Cubsrule on Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MAH4546
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:35 pm

There is absolutely nothing to compare. DL at BOS will never be the size and scope of AA at PHL.
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Bigant0408
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:43 pm

IMO this comparison is hard to debate as AA is dominate in PHL and DL has competition with B6 as well all know. If you mentioned UA in Newark compared to AA in PHL then that would be different. Maybe that’s just me
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chepos
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:44 pm

PHL is a hub with over 300 daily departures, not sure DL plans on building BOS to that level


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DL747400
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:53 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
I’m not sure how we would compare. BOS will always be more fragmented, and will DL will never have the gates available to it that AA has at PHL.


Totally agree. :checkmark:

I particularly like your choice of the word fragmented in describing the BOS market. Very true.

The discussion would be somewhat different if AA ever decided to significantly downsize PHL, but I cannot see that happening since PHL is supposed to be replacement for so much of what AA has already walked away from in NYC. And they continue to do so.

BOS and PHL are just too different to be able to compare them in any meaningful way. Geographical limitations alone impose very unique differences in traffic flows for BOS versus PHL. The traffic that flows to/from/through BOS is not comparable to what AA has in PHL (thanks to US). But even putting geography aside, BOS plays a very different role within DL's network versus what PHL is to AA. O&D in key business markets and as well as both O&D and connect international traffic will be much more important as DL's BOS hub develops.
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IPFreely
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:57 pm

Philadelphia: 32 million passengers/year, AA #1 with 69% market share

Boston: 41 million passengers/year, DL #3 with 14% market share

There is no comparison between the two.
 
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chepos
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Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:12 pm

To put things in perspective, the AA PHL hub is larger than the DL hub at JFK (number of flights wise), I believe. The DL hub at JFK is larger than the DL BOS hub.


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MIflyer12
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:32 pm

FSDan's work to show departure count by aircraft type by hub is a good place to start.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420609

If the OP needed to be told that DL is unlikely to build a dominant hub at BOS it's been done multiple times. Maybe he would like to compare AA at BOS to DL at BOS, or DL in NYC vs. AA in NYC?
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:35 pm

Honestly, the Delta hub at BOS is a secondary, even tertiary Transatlantic station/focus city for Delta. BOS is much more focused on O+D and connecting markets with an O+D presence in BOS. For instance the purpose of the BOS-AMS is to get Boston passengers either A) to AMS or B) to KLM flights. The purpose of ORF-BOS is to serve o+D traffic between the 2. But if a passenger wants to go from ORF-AMS, DL may sell an itinerary over BOS, but it isn’t the intention. The Primary transatlantic hub/gateway for Delta is JFK, and that is unlikely to change over the next decade.

For American, PHL is the premier and primary Transatlantic gateway. It is very much a connection hub, where the primary purpose of a transatlantic flight is to draw on passengers from throughout the North East, Midwest and South via connections to consolidate loads and serve many more destinations than PHL could support organically. That’s not to say that PHL couldn’t support transatlantic traffic on its own, but rather that AA can support many more destinations and frequencies at a cheaper cost for the entire catchment area by making PHL the main transatlantic Hub.

So it isn’t an apples to apples comparison. We are comparing a large focus city to a major hub.
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tphuang
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:38 pm

A better question a few years from now would be b6 at Bo's vs aa at phl. B6 actually does have the gate space and low cost at Boston to make for a pretty formidable tatl hub.
 
alfa164
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:43 pm

tphuang wrote:
A better question a few years from now would be b6 at Bo's vs aa at phl. B6 actually does have the gate space and low cost at Boston to make for a pretty formidable tatl hub.


You are assuming B6 will still be an independent entity in a “few years”.
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NickolayAv
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:44 pm

Web500sjc wrote:
Honestly, the Delta hub at BOS is a secondary, even tertiary Transatlantic station/focus city for Delta. BOS is much more focused on O+D and connecting markets with an O+D presence in BOS. For instance the purpose of the BOS-AMS is to get Boston passengers either A) to AMS or B) to KLM flights. The purpose of ORF-BOS is to serve o+D traffic between the 2. But if a passenger wants to go from ORF-AMS, DL may sell an itinerary over BOS, but it isn’t the intention. The Primary transatlantic hub/gateway for Delta is JFK, and that is unlikely to change over the next decade.

For American, PHL is the premier and primary Transatlantic gateway. It is very much a connection hub, where the primary purpose of a transatlantic flight is to draw on passengers from throughout the North East, Midwest and South via connections to consolidate loads and serve many more destinations than PHL could support organically. That’s not to say that PHL couldn’t support transatlantic traffic on its own, but rather that AA can support many more destinations and frequencies at a cheaper cost for the entire catchment area by making PHL the main transatlantic Hub.

So it isn’t an apples to apples comparison. We are comparing a large focus city to a major hub.

Although, I completely agree that BOS will never have the same TATL presence as JFK or ATL from DL. With the recent growth, DL has made it clear that they are trying to grow their BOS operation into a secondary TATL hub to help alleviate JFK. Although obviously, there is still a major focus on O+D destinations from BOS, more and more I am seeing DL suggesting connections for people through BOS and trying to use BOS as a connecting hub. The number of people connecting through BOS is growing, I do not have the stats, but I have seen them in the BOS thread.
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kavok
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:09 pm

Comparing PHL (AA) vs BOS (DL) is much like comparing DTW (DL) vs ORD (AA). On the surface they may seem similar in functionality, but once you compare the details of each... you see the size and scopes are both quite different.
 
Jonathanxxxx
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:45 pm

I think if anything, AA’s JFK ops are more comparable to DL’s BOS focus city from an international perspective. Both are focused on higher yielding, high O/D routes that do not see much connecting traffic.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:25 pm

IPFreely wrote:
Philadelphia: 32 million passengers/year, AA #1 with 69% market share
Boston: 41 million passengers/year, DL #3 with 14% market share
There is no comparison between the two.


Looking at US flights only gives AA a smaller percentage of Philadelphia.
AA is actually ahead of Delta at Boston for domestic.

Summary Data (U.S. Flights Only)
Carrier Shares for July 2018 - June 2019 (Boston)
32.05% JetBlue 10,675
19.24% American 6,408
14.65% Delta 4,879
11.65% United 3,879
8.21% Southwest 2,735
14.21% Other 4,734

Carrier Shares for July 2018 - June 2019 (Philadelphia)
46.72% American 12,713
7.96% Southwest 2,166
5.93% Delta 1,613
5.71% Frontier 1,554
3.99% United 1,085
29.70% Other 8,083
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:31 pm

I'm very surprised AA carries more pax at BOS than DL. I would've thought DL was #2 behind B6.
 
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klm617
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:43 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
I'm very surprised AA carries more pax at BOS than DL. I would've thought DL was #2 behind B6.


Why would you think that. Anyone who knows commercial aviation knows the Boston was a USAir strong hold for many years so naturally AA is more powerful in Boston than Delta.
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Sightseer
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:48 pm

klm617 wrote:
Ionosphere wrote:
I'm very surprised AA carries more pax at BOS than DL. I would've thought DL was #2 behind B6.


Why would you think that. Anyone who knows commercial aviation knows the Boston was a USAir strong hold for many years so naturally AA is more powerful in Boston than Delta.


As noted, the numbers posted are only for domestic flights. DL operates many more international flights from BOS than AA does.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:52 pm

Sightseer wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Ionosphere wrote:
I'm very surprised AA carries more pax at BOS than DL. I would've thought DL was #2 behind B6.


Why would you think that. Anyone who knows commercial aviation knows the Boston was a USAir strong hold for many years so naturally AA is more powerful in Boston than Delta.


As noted, the numbers posted are only for domestic flights. DL operates many more international flights from BOS than AA does.


No need to argue about the numbers, they aren't even accurate considering they don't include regional carriers.
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SRQKEF
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:17 pm

Jonathanxxxx wrote:
I think if anything, AA’s JFK ops are more comparable to DL’s BOS focus city from an international perspective. Both are focused on higher yielding, high O/D routes that do not see much connecting traffic.


Agreed, that was my first thought too.
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Cointrin330
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:47 pm

Not sure why these are to be compared. PHL (AA) and BOS (DL) are two completely different operations. PHL for AA is a major hub, and designed to capture a mix of O&D and connecting traffic. BOS for DL is a focus city and an operation much more focused on O&D. A large one at that, and I guess from semantics, it is to be called a "hub" but DL has a few of these types of stations across its system. I'd agree, there is more comparison to be had between DL at BOS and AA at JFK than DL BOS vs. AA at PHL.
 
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American 767
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:18 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Not sure why these are to be compared. PHL (AA) and BOS (DL) are two completely different operations. PHL for AA is a major hub, and designed to capture a mix of O&D and connecting traffic. BOS for DL is a focus city and an operation much more focused on O&D. A large one at that, and I guess from semantics, it is to be called a "hub" but DL has a few of these types of stations across its system. I'd agree, there is more comparison to be had between DL at BOS and AA at JFK than DL BOS vs. AA at PHL.


While most of your post is true, there is something that I don't quite agree with. I wouldn't compare DL and BOS with AA and JFK, because DL is building BOS as a focus city the same way they are building SEA on the West Coast, AA isn't developing JFK anymore. True there was a time when AA was building JFK but those days are long gone, the JFK hub for AA is slowly dismantling (remember there were tons of threads on a.net about AA and JFK). I would compare DL and BOS to AA and LAX, both focus cities with a lot of O&D traffic for domestic flights and on the international sector building TATL and TPAC networks respectively. AA in PHL that I would compare to UA in EWR and DL in DTW.
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Cointrin330
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Re: Compare DL in BOS with AA in PHL

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:31 am

American 767 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Not sure why these are to be compared. PHL (AA) and BOS (DL) are two completely different operations. PHL for AA is a major hub, and designed to capture a mix of O&D and connecting traffic. BOS for DL is a focus city and an operation much more focused on O&D. A large one at that, and I guess from semantics, it is to be called a "hub" but DL has a few of these types of stations across its system. I'd agree, there is more comparison to be had between DL at BOS and AA at JFK than DL BOS vs. AA at PHL.


While most of your post is true, there is something that I don't quite agree with. I wouldn't compare DL and BOS with AA and JFK, because DL is building BOS as a focus city the same way they are building SEA on the West Coast, AA isn't developing JFK anymore. True there was a time when AA was building JFK but those days are long gone, the JFK hub for AA is slowly dismantling (remember there were tons of threads on a.net about AA and JFK). I would compare DL and BOS to AA and LAX, both focus cities with a lot of O&D traffic for domestic flights and on the international sector building TATL and TPAC networks respectively. AA in PHL that I would compare to UA in EWR and DL in DTW.


Thanks. I just meant that AA's operation at JFK is not about connections (they have PHL for that). AA at JFK is O&D and to serve a base of customers, frequent flyers and the businesses that contract with AA, and the operation there is essentially P2P. I look at DL at BOS in the same way. Both JFK and BOS are rich markets, with strong demand, and while B6 has an impressive and major station there, DL sees opportunity to get ahead of the TATL market out of BOS beyond AMS, CDG, and LHR, before B6 enters the market. I'd agree AA isn't building JFK any longer, though it appears to have turned a corner there financially.

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