HP69
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:43 pm

What do you guys think could be in the cards for potential new DTW S20 adds? LH to MUC shows that there is potential for new routes. I think the following could be possible:

BA DTW-LHR - with DL dropping the second frequency, there is definitely room for BA.
EI DTW-DUB - EI already expanded into a DL midwestern hub (MSP), so why not DTW?
FI DTW-KEF - Fill the hole left by WOW.
KL DTW-AMS - It seems kind of weird that DL has 4x daily and KL has 0. Would replace a DL frequency.

Thoughts?
 
Skyblue39
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:34 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:47 pm

I think EI Dublin-Detroit is becoming increasingly likely. EI have gone after DL by entering both Seattle and Minneapolis after DL entered onto
BOS-DUB, so I can definitely see DTW being on the cards for S20 as a contender.
 
WeatherPilot
Posts: 513
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:51 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:51 pm

I thought the thread title said ‘$20’ instead of ‘S20’.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:58 pm

No offense, but this is probably about to get moved into the Polls section.
 
DTWorld
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:34 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:04 pm

EI and FI seem plausible. I really really really want to see DL make MUC year-round in the future instead of just seasonal. With LH starting the route next May, it might be a matter of who blinks first.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 13993
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:12 pm

DTWorld wrote:
EI and FI seem plausible. I really really really want to see DL make MUC year-round in the future instead of just seasonal. With LH starting the route next May, it might be a matter of who blinks first.


DL and LH aren't targeting the same passengers on DTW-MUC. DL is after tourists to Bavaria. LH is after Germany-originating auto industry traffic. We see in CLT that LH can make MUC routes work close to exclusively on the strength of Germany point of sale business traffic, so I'm not convinced that the two cannot coexist. If DL (or NW) thought there was a business case for year-round service focusing on the US-originating traffic, we'd have seen it by now.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
EI321
Posts: 4981
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Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:19 pm

I'd say Aer Lingus to Dublin is almost a certainty. I would like to see Delta fly the route too.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:27 pm

I don't believe Icelandair will expand yet. They have too much restraints with the current MAX groundings.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 661
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:36 pm

I wonder if we might see DL pull the domestic 752 trick with DTW-DUB; EI is another possibility there. Overall, I get the impression that there is not all that much slack in the int'l Delta longhaul fleet, and BOS is likely to consume the lion's share of that this year. I just think there are higher priorities for the limited long haul capacity this year (BOS, a BNA tatl, LGW, and apparently FCO expansion now as well). On that last note, I wonder if we might see DL try to move DTW-FCO to if not year round, then a much longer season.

I honestly think BA is more likely to do other things before coming back to DTW; my hunch is that we'll see LHR-CLE/STL first.

I've always also thought that TK's network lined up really well with the VFR travel in the Detroit Metro area, but alas, we haven't seen that one happen yet either.
 
panamair
Posts: 4102
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:29 pm

HP69 wrote:
BA DTW-LHR - with DL dropping the second frequency, there is definitely room for BA.


Where are you getting that DL is dropping the second DTW-LHR frequency? Both flights are still loaded and for sale for next summer.
And BA did not start DTW-LHR even when DL had a single daily DTW-LHR, so what makes you think they will go for it now?
 
HP69
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:04 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:27 pm

panamair wrote:
HP69 wrote:
BA DTW-LHR - with DL dropping the second frequency, there is definitely room for BA.


Where are you getting that DL is dropping the second DTW-LHR frequency? Both flights are still loaded and for sale for next summer.
And BA did not start DTW-LHR even when DL had a single daily DTW-LHR, so what makes you think they will go for it now?


The second DTW flight will instead be seasonal, and SLC will go year-round. Announced a while back.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:48 am

HP69 wrote:
KL DTW-AMS - It seems kind of weird that DL has 4x daily and KL has 0. Would replace a DL frequency.


The compliance mechanism in the PWA doesn't look at number of flights by airport pair and declare that XX% goes to DL and YY% goes to JV partners. They can optimize profit by looking at airframe size, utilization, crew availability, etc. and decide assignments jointly. That it's 4-0 on a specific airport pair is utterly meaningless.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2421
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:29 am

HP69 wrote:
BA DTW-LHR - with DL dropping the second frequency, there is definitely room for BA.


Why? DL has feed on the DTW end of this route only, BA has (would have) feed on the LHR end of this route only.

The DL route makes sense -- lots of people from Detroit and all over the world want to go to London for both business and tourism reasons.

The BA route -- how many people in London (or anywhere else) want to go to Detroit?
 
klm617
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:07 pm

IPFreely wrote:
HP69 wrote:
BA DTW-LHR - with DL dropping the second frequency, there is definitely room for BA.


Why? DL has feed on the DTW end of this route only, BA has (would have) feed on the LHR end of this route only.

The DL route makes sense -- lots of people from Detroit and all over the world want to go to London for both business and tourism reasons.

The BA route -- how many people in London (or anywhere else) want to go to Detroit?



More than you think. Come and find out why Detroit and Michigan are such amazing places. Sure every major urban area has their problems but for some reason people like to focus on that more when the conversation is about Detroit. I love my city and I love my state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY02yEvqFio&t=15s
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2421
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:33 pm

klm617 wrote:
More than you think. Come and find out why Detroit and Michigan are such amazing places. Sure every major urban area has their problems but for some reason people like to focus on that more when the conversation is about Detroit. I love my city and I love my state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY02yEvqFio&t=15s


That’s great but I’m never going to fly LHR-DTW. If you want BA to fly the route you need to create demand where BA’s customers are — in England. Perhaps the Thames River could be lined with signs saying “Spend your holiday in Detroit” :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
David_itl
Posts: 6365
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:54 am

Err.. dare I say DTW-MAN?

With the demise of Thomas Cook, Virgin is eyeing their MAN slots per https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-26/virgin-atlantic-targets-manchester-growth-with-thomas-cook-slots.

It does contain this sentence:

"Some new flights at Manchester could be operated by Virgin’s partner and 49% owner Delta Air Lines Inc. if the U.K. carrier first secures the slots, the CEO said."

Greater chance of success with the Connect Airways (Flybe) schedules which ought to be aligned with Virgin's services by next summer.
 
klm617
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:09 pm

David_itl wrote:
Err.. dare I say DTW-MAN?

With the demise of Thomas Cook, Virgin is eyeing their MAN slots per https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-26/virgin-atlantic-targets-manchester-growth-with-thomas-cook-slots.

It does contain this sentence:

"Some new flights at Manchester could be operated by Virgin’s partner and 49% owner Delta Air Lines Inc. if the U.K. carrier first secures the slots, the CEO said."

Greater chance of success with the Connect Airways (Flybe) schedules which ought to be aligned with Virgin's services by next summer.



I've been saying this for a while now.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 4445
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Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:47 pm

These three are givens and should have happened already. The longer the airport waits to secure these routes the less likely they are to ever happen. It should be all hands on deck to make sure DTW get's these adds sooner rather than later.

DTW-MAN DL
DTW-KEF FI
DTW-DUB EI.


They need to have enough time to mature before the next economic downturn that's why it's so important to lands these routes. Other airports get it I don't understand why DTW keeps dragging it's feet on these additions.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:36 pm

klm617 wrote:
These three are givens and should have happened already. The longer the airport waits to secure these routes the less likely they are to ever happen. It should be all hands on deck to make sure DTW get's these adds sooner rather than later.

DTW-MAN DL
DTW-KEF FI
DTW-DUB EI.


They need to have enough time to mature before the next economic downturn that's why it's so important to lands these routes. Other airports get it I don't understand why DTW keeps dragging it's feet on these additions.


Like I said before, Icelandair is highly unlikely right now because it's restricted on aircraft due to the MAX groundings.

Aer Lingus is limited as well as they are gradually taking delivery of their A321LRs.

The longer the airport waits to secure these routes the less likely they are to ever happen. They need to have enough time to mature before the next economic downturn that's why it's so important to lands these routes.


???

Are you suggesting the economy in the respective countries/cities are declining, or that there will be an imminent economic crisis in the near future?

Other airports get it I don't understand why DTW keeps dragging it's feet on these additions.


Maybe it's not the airport but it's because the airline doesn't want to fly to DTW or has better places to utilize its aircraft?
 
klm617
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:59 pm

Ishrion wrote:
klm617 wrote:
These three are givens and should have happened already. The longer the airport waits to secure these routes the less likely they are to ever happen. It should be all hands on deck to make sure DTW get's these adds sooner rather than later.

DTW-MAN DL
DTW-KEF FI
DTW-DUB EI.


They need to have enough time to mature before the next economic downturn that's why it's so important to lands these routes. Other airports get it I don't understand why DTW keeps dragging it's feet on these additions.


Like I said before, Icelandair is highly unlikely right now because it's restricted on aircraft due to the MAX groundings.

Aer Lingus is limited as well as they are gradually taking delivery of their A321LRs.

The longer the airport waits to secure these routes the less likely they are to ever happen. They need to have enough time to mature before the next economic downturn that's why it's so important to lands these routes.


???

Are you suggesting the economy in the respective countries/cities are declining, or that there will be an imminent economic crisis in the near future?

Other airports get it I don't understand why DTW keeps dragging it's feet on these additions.


Maybe it's not the airport but it's because the airline doesn't want to fly to DTW or has better places to utilize its aircraft?


Excuses it didn't stop the from adding PHL or MSP. MAX should be up and running by years end software updates due to start in the next month. Smoke and mirrors. The next economic recession could be just around the corner and the airport needs to lock these routes down before that happens. There is no evidence to say that Detroit isn't a good place to invest in unless you try so everything is subjective. Everything is as possible as it isn't until you try.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:17 pm

klm617 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
klm617 wrote:
These three are givens and should have happened already. The longer the airport waits to secure these routes the less likely they are to ever happen. It should be all hands on deck to make sure DTW get's these adds sooner rather than later.

DTW-MAN DL
DTW-KEF FI
DTW-DUB EI.


They need to have enough time to mature before the next economic downturn that's why it's so important to lands these routes. Other airports get it I don't understand why DTW keeps dragging it's feet on these additions.


Like I said before, Icelandair is highly unlikely right now because it's restricted on aircraft due to the MAX groundings.

Aer Lingus is limited as well as they are gradually taking delivery of their A321LRs.

The longer the airport waits to secure these routes the less likely they are to ever happen. They need to have enough time to mature before the next economic downturn that's why it's so important to lands these routes.


???

Are you suggesting the economy in the respective countries/cities are declining, or that there will be an imminent economic crisis in the near future?

Other airports get it I don't understand why DTW keeps dragging it's feet on these additions.


Maybe it's not the airport but it's because the airline doesn't want to fly to DTW or has better places to utilize its aircraft?


Excuses it didn't stop the from adding PHL or MSP. MAX should be up and running by years end software updates due to start in the next month. Smoke and mirrors. The next economic recession could be just around the corner and the airport needs to lock these routes down before that happens. There is no evidence to say that Detroit isn't a good place to invest in unless you try so everything is subjective. Everything is as possible as it isn't until you try.


Excuses it didn't stop the from adding PHL or MSP


...And that's why they're limited on aircraft right now...

The next economic recession could be just around the corner and the airport needs to lock these routes down before that happens.


Why do you think it's an absolute must for Detroit to receive service to Reykjavik, Dublin, and Manchester? If there's some massive economic downturn that could be "around the corner", why would airlines be adding routes in the near future? You'd see them cutting capacity, not increasing. Even the most mature routes can be cut due to some crisis.

For example, United's Chicago to Hong Kong route was in place for many years... yet once Hong Kong began to experience problems, United slashed the route. What makes you say DTW-KEF/DUB/MAN won't be the first to fall?

There is no evidence to say that Detroit isn't a good place to invest in unless you try so everything is subjective. Everything is as possible as it isn't until you try.


Okay, can't wait to see American Airlines launch Detroit to London Heathrow as some people say "Detroit could use an additional LHR service"

Waiting on a direct connection between Xiamen and Detroit... Preferably Delta Air Lines. They should test the route to examine the possible profitability. They don't have other places that the aircraft can be utilized on, anyways...
 
klm617
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:11 am

Ishrion wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Like I said before, Icelandair is highly unlikely right now because it's restricted on aircraft due to the MAX groundings.

Aer Lingus is limited as well as they are gradually taking delivery of their A321LRs.



???

Are you suggesting the economy in the respective countries/cities are declining, or that there will be an imminent economic crisis in the near future?



Maybe it's not the airport but it's because the airline doesn't want to fly to DTW or has better places to utilize its aircraft?


Excuses it didn't stop the from adding PHL or MSP. MAX should be up and running by years end software updates due to start in the next month. Smoke and mirrors. The next economic recession could be just around the corner and the airport needs to lock these routes down before that happens. There is no evidence to say that Detroit isn't a good place to invest in unless you try so everything is subjective. Everything is as possible as it isn't until you try.


Excuses it didn't stop the from adding PHL or MSP


...And that's why they're limited on aircraft right now...

The next economic recession could be just around the corner and the airport needs to lock these routes down before that happens.


Why do you think it's an absolute must for Detroit to receive service to Reykjavik, Dublin, and Manchester? If there's some massive economic downturn that could be "around the corner", why would airlines be adding routes in the near future? You'd see them cutting capacity, not increasing. Even the most mature routes can be cut due to some crisis.

For example, United's Chicago to Hong Kong route was in place for many years... yet once Hong Kong began to experience problems, United slashed the route. What makes you say DTW-KEF/DUB/MAN won't be the first to fall?

There is no evidence to say that Detroit isn't a good place to invest in unless you try so everything is subjective. Everything is as possible as it isn't until you try.


Okay, can't wait to see American Airlines launch Detroit to London Heathrow as some people say "Detroit could use an additional LHR service"

Waiting on a direct connection between Xiamen and Detroit... Preferably Delta Air Lines. They should test the route to examine the possible profitability. They don't have other places that the aircraft can be utilized on, anyways...


This post is about potential new routes not reasons why routes are not added please stay on topic here. For the record Detroit doesn't need more LHR flights that route is well covered by Delta. Hence I didn't add that in my comment. The three I stated are needs at the moment and they need to get established before the next economic down turn or they will never happen. All three are very viable and until proven otherwise there is no reason to doubt their potential end of story.

By the way HKG is still linked to ORD via CX so it's very viable.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
winginit
Posts: 2555
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:54 am

klm617 wrote:
The three I stated are needs at the moment and they need to get established before the next economic down turn or they will never happen. All three are very viable and until proven otherwise there is no reason to doubt their potential end of story.


As those routes haven't yet been announced or launched, that seems pretty solid proof in and of itself that they aren't 'very viable' as you say and their potential should be called into question. As you say - end of story.
 
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chepos
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Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:12 am

Why should DL fly DTW-MAN? Is there a huge amount of traffic headed to midwest towns that airlines are just just not serving? I believe most meaningful connecting opportunities inbound from MAN are currently adequately captured with present service.



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David_itl
Posts: 6365
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:27 am

chepos wrote:
Why should DL fly DTW-MAN? Is there a huge amount of traffic headed to midwest towns that airlines are just just not serving? I believe most meaningful connecting opportunities inbound from MAN are currently adequately captured with present service.


Where else would DL fly to MAN from if VS indicates that should they get the additional slots they are requesting, DL may end up using some of them? This is the massive chance to sew up transatlantic travel from the North of England for DL/VS.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2421
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:53 am

klm617 wrote:
These three are givens and should have happened already. The longer the airport waits to secure these routes the less likely they are to ever happen. It should be all hands on deck to make sure DTW get's these adds sooner rather than later.

DTW-MAN DL
DTW-KEF FI
DTW-DUB EI.


They need to have enough time to mature before the next economic downturn that's why it's so important to lands these routes. Other airports get it I don't understand why DTW keeps dragging it's feet on these additions.


These three are a given? Is this a joke? FI and EI have no feed in DTW and no code share or partner connections beyond DTW. The only pax they would have are people in Iceland and Dublin who want to go to Detroit. In other words, none. For MAN, DL would add JFK, ATL, or MSP before DTW. As far as connections, DTW offers nothing that isn't available from JFK, ATL, and MSP. And for o/d, unlike DTW, there are people in MAN who might want to go to JFK, ATL, or MSP. DTW already punches far above it's weight in TATL routes. They will be lucky to keep what they have.
 
klm617
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:52 pm

It's Oct 16....TATL announcements soon or "wait till next year?" When is too late? Thoughts?
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:25 pm

klm617 wrote:
It's Oct 16....TATL announcements soon or "wait till next year?" When is too late? Thoughts?


It’s never too late. Airlines have announced new TATL routes in March which will launch in Sept/Oct.
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2230
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:23 pm

IPFreely wrote:
klm617 wrote:
More than you think. Come and find out why Detroit and Michigan are such amazing places. Sure every major urban area has their problems but for some reason people like to focus on that more when the conversation is about Detroit. I love my city and I love my state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY02yEvqFio&t=15s


That’s great but I’m never going to fly LHR-DTW. If you want BA to fly the route you need to create demand where BA’s customers are — in England. Perhaps the Thames River could be lined with signs saying “Spend your holiday in Detroit” :lol: :lol: :lol:


Nice video but why would a visitor from overseas want to visit Detroit when San Francisco, LA, NYC, Miami...etc are so much more desirable?
 
klm617
Posts: 4445
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Potential new DTW TATL service for S20

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:10 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
klm617 wrote:
More than you think. Come and find out why Detroit and Michigan are such amazing places. Sure every major urban area has their problems but for some reason people like to focus on that more when the conversation is about Detroit. I love my city and I love my state.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY02yEvqFio&t=15s


That’s great but I’m never going to fly LHR-DTW. If you want BA to fly the route you need to create demand where BA’s customers are — in England. Perhaps the Thames River could be lined with signs saying “Spend your holiday in Detroit” :lol: :lol: :lol:


Nice video but why would a visitor from overseas want to visit Detroit when San Francisco, LA, NYC, Miami...etc are so much more desirable?


I have to disagree I've been to Miami and the sight of people sleeping along the streets was not very impressive. Before you say there is nothing in Detroit and Michigan to see visit here first. It's a common misconception that Detroit is a vast wasteland but that's not the case at all.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...

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