grbauc
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:54 am

DfwRevolution wrote:
1.) If anyone says they have an easy solution to this problem, their wrong.

2.) Many solutions proposed do not consider - or trivialize - unintended impacts. It is possible to make the situation worse.

3.) Uber and Lyft largely serve to substitute for other personal vehicles - taxi, friend, family - so expect the congestion relief to be minimal after travelers adapt to the new policy.

4.) Good friggin luck with the people mover making a serious difference.



Yep Ill just have a friend drive me now and or drive there an park across the street so I don't see any or much change. This was the way we did it before ride share and it was jammed and will be again.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:23 am

thekorean wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
The problem is the absence of high quality public transport. Where are the state-of-the-art subway lines running directly under the main concourses of US airports with station embarkation within steps of check-in? Go to say e.g. AMS and look how it is done.

LAX is building a people mover that will connect to a light rail station. But the problem is that light rail line doesn’t go directly to downtown LA.


So, I bet the vast majority of LAX travelers also don't go to downtown LA.
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Turnhouse1
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:53 am

DTWLAX wrote:
seat38a wrote:
Below is how Boston Logan does it. I really liked it vs the total CF I dealt with at EWR a month earlier. EWR has a similar system to LAX's current system and its a complete CF x 10.

LAS has a similar system for the rideshares but LAX simply does not have the space to do that.


The solution would be, only public transport/shuttle buses can pick up at the Kerb; Taxis/Limos/Uber/Friend+Family Drop Off and PickUp is in the car parks. Long Stay parking is moved to be accessed by a shuttle bus to free up space in the car parks. The car parks are <100m from the appropriate terminal, it would dramatically reduce the number of vehicles trying to stop on the World Way.
 
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thekorean
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:13 am

sprxUSA wrote:
thekorean wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
The problem is the absence of high quality public transport. Where are the state-of-the-art subway lines running directly under the main concourses of US airports with station embarkation within steps of check-in? Go to say e.g. AMS and look how it is done.

LAX is building a people mover that will connect to a light rail station. But the problem is that light rail line doesn’t go directly to downtown LA.


So, I bet the vast majority of LAX travelers also don't go to downtown LA.

Perhaps not, but connecting LAX to LA Union Station would do wonders.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:05 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
The problem is the absence of high quality public transport. Where are the state-of-the-art subway lines running directly under the main concourses of US airports with station embarkation within steps of check-in? Go to say e.g. AMS and look how it is done.


That's the kind of remark that shows you don't understand the differences in population density and travel modalities between a city like LA and a dense/old city like AMS.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:14 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Another option would be adding a Congestion Charge. Say: $20 to enter the premises.

Instead of expanding tax...

How about expanding greater LA's airport and ground transportation. E g , stop blocking direct subway access.

Other cities have figured this out. Why not the city I call home? Using the airport as a revenue source instead of investing in it has long term issues.

Lightsaber


Economists just see this as both sides of the same coin. Carrots vs. sticks. The problem is allocation of scarce resource (time at a nearby curb in front of the departing/arriving terminal). There are several solutions, many of which have been cited: more people per unit of curb space (buses), picking up transit away from the curb, more efficient use of the curb (better signage, among other tools)... A private vehicle/taxi/Uber tax would encourage people to arrive/depart in shuttles. Reducing congestion in areas near-gridlock typically has the benefit of significantly increasing travel speeds. That's good for everyone. https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jep.20.4.157
 
airbazar
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:50 pm

seat38a wrote:
Below is how Boston Logan does it. I really liked it vs the total CF I dealt with at EWR a month earlier. EWR has a similar system to LAX's current system and its a complete CF x 10.
Image
Image

BOS can do that because they have seen a reduction in parking demand as a result of people using more TNC and less private cars. BOS also has much better public transportation options to get to/from the airport than LAX does. So they turned those empty parking spaces into a TNC pickup area in the central parking garage which. I suspect LAX will eventually do the same. As mentioned up-thread this current solution is a temporary one.
MIflyer12 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
The problem is the absence of high quality public transport. Where are the state-of-the-art subway lines running directly under the main concourses of US airports with station embarkation within steps of check-in? Go to say e.g. AMS and look how it is done.


That's the kind of remark that shows you don't understand the differences in population density and travel modalities between a city like LA and a dense/old city like AMS.

Humm, those things aren't any different here than it is at AMS, or FRA, of CDG. The big difference is that there is zero political will in this country to spend money on infrastructure. Germans for example aren't any less addicted to their cars than Americans are and yet Germany has excellent transportation infrastructure.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:16 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Courtesy shuttle buses for hotels, car rental, and private parking lots made up 6% of CTA traffic in 2018. Add in LAWA buses, FlyAway, and other shared rides like Super Shuttle we are up to merely 8.3% of CTA traffic total. Far more efficient use of roadway capacity than TNCs.


But they take up 2-3 times more space. This is a square footage issue, not a unit issue. So there 8.3% becomes more like 20-25% equivalent. Then you add in the time component of how much longer they sit there - average Uber is stopped for less than 10 seconds, those buses will sit for minutes. Then the fact they are likely to block “through lanes” more frequently. I’d say they are at least equal to if not worse of an impact on a square footage per second occupancy rate.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
sphealey
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:52 pm

With every change to the traffic flow they make it harder (and now, unless I missed something, impossible) to walk from the terminals to the hotels just east on Century Blvd and the rental car sites just north of that. I used to see hundreds of people walking those sidewalks (a lot of flight crews getting some exercise after a long flight, fitter and more adventurous travelers, etc) which would have correspondingly reduced the need for vehicular pickup. Now the zone to the west of Sepulveda is sealed off from all pedestrian access. As long as the solution to every LA problem is to force more people into vehicles then the problems of increasing number of vehicles will continue.
 
11C
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:29 pm

spudsmac wrote:
For years I've been saying that LAX needs to ban personal vehicles from the Horseshoe of Misery. Only allow permitted vehicles such as shuttle buses, taxis, Uber/Lyft, rental car shuttles. Have an off site drop off/pick up lot and have buses take passengers to/from the terminals.

I guess LAWA decided to go hard in the one direction that will make me and others like me even less likely to fly out of there and instead fly out of other airports.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. The personal vehicles are the problem. I walk around the airport often, and it is very dangerous to pedestrians.
 
DoctorVenkman
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:50 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Courtesy shuttle buses for hotels, car rental, and private parking lots made up 6% of CTA traffic in 2018. Add in LAWA buses, FlyAway, and other shared rides like Super Shuttle we are up to merely 8.3% of CTA traffic total. Far more efficient use of roadway capacity than TNCs.


But they take up 2-3 times more space. This is a square footage issue, not a unit issue. So there 8.3% becomes more like 20-25% equivalent. Then you add in the time component of how much longer they sit there - average Uber is stopped for less than 10 seconds, those buses will sit for minutes. Then the fact they are likely to block “through lanes” more frequently. I’d say they are at least equal to if not worse of an impact on a square footage per second occupancy rate.


How is it not obvious that a bus that holds 30 people is more efficient than a car that hold 1-3 people, even though it is 3 times larger? That bus which is as big as 3 cars will remove 10-20 ubers from the roadway.

Also, the comment "average Uber is stopped for less than 10 seconds" is patently false - have you ever been at a ride share pickup zone at LAX? There are dozens of vehicles just sitting there waiting since people request rides when they're still on the plane. Even if you time it perfectly, it takes about 30-60 seconds for the driver to park, get out of the vehicle, take your bag, and return to the car. To make it 10 seconds you'd have to run up to the car while it's still moving and hop in the car with no bag.
 
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United787
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:21 pm

At ORD we do Lyft/Uber pick ups at the upper level drop off, in the "dead space" between the terminals. I think it works fairly well since the drop off isn't as crowded as the pick up.

But, if LAX really wanted to reduce traffic to LAX, they should discourage the private car pick up/drop off since those are the least efficient given there are pax only one way. At least Uber/Lyft are usually dropping pax off and picking them up. Of course public transportation or more shared rides/shuttles would be even more efficient...
 
rbavfan
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:22 pm

JakubH wrote:
This comes with the inefficiency of cars dropping off passengers not being able to pick up anyone on the way out of the terminal area.

If it were possible to enable pickups by cars already dropping passengers in the area, with additional pickup opportunities outside of the terminal area, I think everybody would be better off.

Of course, this would require coordination with Lyft and Uber in their app design (e.g. have a surcharge for curbside pickup and a normal rate for pickup at the remote parking lot)...


Or if UBER/Lyft would fine their drivers if they go or park where they are not allowed to. We had a cab line for 1st come first serve cabs & an Uber/Lyft area as they get orders sent to them, where cabs worked based on beig in line. Lift would follow the rules, Uber drivers would get in the cab line and not want to wait. Unless they get fined for drop off/pickup it will not change.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:20 pm

delimit wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
airbazar wrote:
This is the U.S. we're talking about and California at that. If you can't drive there, "there" may as well not exist. It's not a total shocker that I see people here claim that a single user vehicle is a more efficient method to transport people than a 50 person bus because, LA :rotfl:
It's not a perfect move but it's a necessary one. When it takes longer to get in/out of the airport than your flight takes then we know there's a serious problem. It took me close to 1 hour on the rental car shuttle to travel the short distance between the rental car drop off and the terminal.

Then LAX need to ban ALL personal cars, not just rideshare & taxis.

What? Why? This will improve the situation for the personal cars which are the majority of the traffic.

If LAX want to remove curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies & taxis, it's because they assume 1 car = 1 pax; personal cars achieve the same result.
So, if you want to remove 1 car = 1 pax, then ban ALL personal cars and keep only shuttles and buses.
BUT, LAX won't do that; they just want to fight (mainly) rideshare companies to get more money out of them.
 
ikramerica
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:26 pm

They did this after STUDYING it.

From latimes (fair use):
“ Uber and Lyft account for 27% of the 100,000 vehicles in the LAX terminal area on an average day, Wilschetz said. Taxis make up 4%. Shifting pickups to a parking lot will eliminate about 15% of the vehicles in the terminal, he said.

During the first half of 2019, LAX saw 10% more vehicle trips than in the same time period in 2016, the first full year that Uber and Lyft operated there. The number of Uber and Lyft trips soared 123% over that period, while taxi trips fell 39%, according to city data.

Meanwhile, ridership plummeted on high-occupancy buses and shuttles, data show. Trips on LAX’s FlyAway buses fell by two-thirds, as did rides on shared vans such as SuperShuttle and Prime Time. Courtesy shuttles to car rental facilities, parking lots and hotels saw a 20% decline.“

The point is also about making sure departures go smoother. Delaying Uber pax by 20 minutes on arrival vs allowing EVERYONE to save 20 mins on departure is a fair trade for the airport. Considering at peak times you can wait 20-30 minutes for your uber, it may not add any time.

I also reject the argument that short term parking contributes much to congestion. You enter near your terminal. You can cross mid loop. You stay to the left, away from curbs. You exit out a center road.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:48 am

spudsmac wrote:
For years I've been saying that LAX needs to ban personal vehicles from the Horseshoe of Misery. Only allow permitted vehicles such as shuttle buses, taxis, Uber/Lyft, rental car shuttles. Have an off site drop off/pick up lot and have buses take passengers to/from the terminals.

I guess LAWA decided to go hard in the one direction that will make me and others like me even less likely to fly out of there and instead fly out of other airports.


I'm familiar with the model at DFW Airport with two levels of traffic in front of each terminal hub. Does LA have two levels of traffic to their terminal?
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:59 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Why are major airports in major cities like LAX, JFK, and LGA in such a dilapidated state? Why have they waited so long to make improvements? Cities like Atlanta, Denver, and Orlando figured out better terminal designs decades ago.


PIT ('87-92), ATL (late 70s), DTW (late 90s into 2008), DEN (early 90s), and AUS as another example, had the land available for complete do-overs. Other airports are still chugging along with footprints established in the 1930s-50s. If you own, oh, 35,000+ flat contiguous acres in the LA Basin without approach/departure flight restrictions and with immediate multiple freeway and Metro access I'm sure LAWA would like to hear from you.


Makes me think of that super-airport they wanted to build out in the desert with hyper-shuttles to and from LA. :D
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:25 am

DoctorVenkman wrote:
SuseJ772 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Courtesy shuttle buses for hotels, car rental, and private parking lots made up 6% of CTA traffic in 2018. Add in LAWA buses, FlyAway, and other shared rides like Super Shuttle we are up to merely 8.3% of CTA traffic total. Far more efficient use of roadway capacity than TNCs.


But they take up 2-3 times more space. This is a square footage issue, not a unit issue. So there 8.3% becomes more like 20-25% equivalent. Then you add in the time component of how much longer they sit there - average Uber is stopped for less than 10 seconds, those buses will sit for minutes. Then the fact they are likely to block “through lanes” more frequently. I’d say they are at least equal to if not worse of an impact on a square footage per second occupancy rate.


How is it not obvious that a bus that holds 30 people is more efficient than a car that hold 1-3 people, even though it is 3 times larger? That bus which is as big as 3 cars will remove 10-20 ubers from the roadway.

Also, the comment "average Uber is stopped for less than 10 seconds" is patently false - have you ever been at a ride share pickup zone at LAX? There are dozens of vehicles just sitting there waiting since people request rides when they're still on the plane. Even if you time it perfectly, it takes about 30-60 seconds for the driver to park, get out of the vehicle, take your bag, and return to the car. To make it 10 seconds you'd have to run up to the car while it's still moving and hop in the car with no bag.


Ubers with running boards.. :lol:
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:35 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
SuseJ772 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Courtesy shuttle buses for hotels, car rental, and private parking lots made up 6% of CTA traffic in 2018. Add in LAWA buses, FlyAway, and other shared rides like Super Shuttle we are up to merely 8.3% of CTA traffic total. Far more efficient use of roadway capacity than TNCs.


But they take up 2-3 times more space. This is a square footage issue, not a unit issue. So there 8.3% becomes more like 20-25% equivalent. Then you add in the time component of how much longer they sit there - average Uber is stopped for less than 10 seconds, those buses will sit for minutes. Then the fact they are likely to block “through lanes” more frequently. I’d say they are at least equal to if not worse of an impact on a square footage per second occupancy rate.


How is it not obvious that a bus that holds 30 people is more efficient than a car that hold 1-3 people, even though it is 3 times larger? That bus which is as big as 3 cars will remove 10-20 ubers from the roadway.

Also, the comment "average Uber is stopped for less than 10 seconds" is patently false - have you ever been at a ride share pickup zone at LAX? There are dozens of vehicles just sitting there waiting since people request rides when they're still on the plane. Even if you time it perfectly, it takes about 30-60 seconds for the driver to park, get out of the vehicle, take your bag, and return to the car. To make it 10 seconds you'd have to run up to the car while it's still moving and hop in the car with no bag.


I have taken probably 50 Uber’s from airports and I have never had that. They pull up next to the curb that I am waiting at for them already and I hop in the back seat. They don’t get out. They barely put it in park. This has been at all the curbside pickups like TPA (I am not talking about the special zone pickup airports like ATL). It might not be your experience but it isn’t “patently false” - reflects more on the user than the service
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
DoctorVenkman
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:00 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:

I have taken probably 50 Uber’s from airports and I have never had that. They pull up next to the curb that I am waiting at for them already and I hop in the back seat. They don’t get out. They barely put it in park. This has been at all the curbside pickups like TPA (I am not talking about the special zone pickup airports like ATL). It might not be your experience but it isn’t “patently false” - reflects more on the user than the service


I'm not talking about TPA or any other airport. At LAX there are constantly 10+ ubers sitting outside of each terminal waiting on passengers to show up. They block multiple lanes and greatly disrupt the flow of traffic. I know this from my hundreds of arrivals at LAX where I get to sit and watch the chaos while waiting on my own uber.

The average uber at LAX is not idling for 10 seconds, it's more like a couple minutes. Full stop.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:22 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:

I have taken probably 50 Uber’s from airports and I have never had that. They pull up next to the curb that I am waiting at for them already and I hop in the back seat. They don’t get out. They barely put it in park. This has been at all the curbside pickups like TPA (I am not talking about the special zone pickup airports like ATL). It might not be your experience but it isn’t “patently false” - reflects more on the user than the service

We are talking about LAX here. The number of Uber/Lyft vehicles are probably 20x more than TPA. There are 7 terminals as well. So unless, one has experienced LAX at peak hours, one has no idea of how bad the situation is.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:44 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
SuseJ772 wrote:

I have taken probably 50 Uber’s from airports and I have never had that. They pull up next to the curb that I am waiting at for them already and I hop in the back seat. They don’t get out. They barely put it in park. This has been at all the curbside pickups like TPA (I am not talking about the special zone pickup airports like ATL). It might not be your experience but it isn’t “patently false” - reflects more on the user than the service

We are talking about LAX here. The number of Uber/Lyft vehicles are probably 20x more than TPA. There are 7 terminals as well. So unless, one has experienced LAX at peak hours, one has no idea of how bad the situation is.


There is also 20x the amount of concerted through their 7 terminals instead TPAs 2 drop off sides.

I lived in LA for 4 years, Atlanta for 7 years and Tampa for 6 years. The three airports I know the best are LAX, ATL and TPA.

Now that being said, if you have Ubers full stop that is a problem. But that sounds like a lack of enforcement of the “waiting policy” more than anything else. Are private cars allowed to stop and wait now too? That seems very odd.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
aklrno
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:02 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
spudsmac wrote:
For years I've been saying that LAX needs to ban personal vehicles from the Horseshoe of Misery. Only allow permitted vehicles such as shuttle buses, taxis, Uber/Lyft, rental car shuttles. Have an off site drop off/pick up lot and have buses take passengers to/from the terminals.

I guess LAWA decided to go hard in the one direction that will make me and others like me even less likely to fly out of there and instead fly out of other airports.


I'm familiar with the model at DFW Airport with two levels of traffic in front of each terminal hub. Does LA have two levels of traffic to their terminal?

Yes, for about 35 years now.
 
blockski
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:41 pm

SuseJ772 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Courtesy shuttle buses for hotels, car rental, and private parking lots made up 6% of CTA traffic in 2018. Add in LAWA buses, FlyAway, and other shared rides like Super Shuttle we are up to merely 8.3% of CTA traffic total. Far more efficient use of roadway capacity than TNCs.


But they take up 2-3 times more space. This is a square footage issue, not a unit issue. So there 8.3% becomes more like 20-25% equivalent. Then you add in the time component of how much longer they sit there - average Uber is stopped for less than 10 seconds, those buses will sit for minutes. Then the fact they are likely to block “through lanes” more frequently. I’d say they are at least equal to if not worse of an impact on a square footage per second occupancy rate.


Buses only block the thru-lanes because the bus stops are blocked by cars. Cars are spatially inefficient; they just are. There's no way around that basic math. If everyone arrived at the airport by bus, there wouldn't be a congestion problem. But if everyone arrived via car, the problem would be exponentially worse. That's just the basic geometry: cars take up way more space per passenger.

LAWA is aware of this, of course, which is why part of this policy change includes dedicating the inner curb of the lower level to buses and shuttles, ensuring they can operate faster and more efficiently - appropriate for the higher capacity modes.

As noted later, ride hail cars often dwell for substantially more than 10 seconds. And even if they move, then you're just creating another deadhead movement - driving around without a passenger, adding to congestion without actually moving anyone to/from the airport.
 
747megatop
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:33 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
747megatop wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

B) There really isn't that technology, at least in an economically feasible form. You would have to have (lots of) airport staff monitoring it.

Moving TNC's is a good intermediate step.

Wrong. The technology is there and it's cheap. It's a matter of tweaking it and retrofitting it a bit for the job at hand. https://observer.com/2015/06/first-look ... out-video/


No. That technology counts cars not people. It cannot sense what or whom is in the car. The headline says people but means people on foot.

That is why i said it is a matter of tweaking it/retrofitting it (don't want to get tied up in the technicality of nitpicking words). Bottom line is there IS technology to count # of people in cars. Matter of integrating it and tweaking/changing/retrofitting. Customs/border patrol agents in various countries already use infrared technology to peek into containers and hidden places in ships to detect stoaways etc. so technology exists. Matter of applying it here.
 
747megatop
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Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:54 pm

seat38a wrote:
747megatop wrote:
seat38a wrote:
Thank god. I knew there was a problem when I was stuck in the hotel shuttle and FlyAway and every single car around me had a uber or lyft decal on its windshield. I drive to the airport but park my car at one of the hotels and take their shuttle. And to all of you who think personal cars are the problem, when was the last time you've actually been to LAX and paid attention to the cars?? You'll find most of them are Uber/Lyfts and personal cars don't circle around waiting for a fare.

Also, let's be honest here. Many Uber and Lyft drivers are not very good drivers. I've lost count how many times I've been stuck behind a Uber or Lyft who can't figure out where they are going and just slowdown to a crawl or block traffic with no consideration for traffic behind them (Airports and just in the city.)


A few quick points -
1) LAX was a mess even 10 years ago when Uber/Lyft weren't there.
2) Uber/Lyft only made it worse with passengers moving from shared ride vans to Uber/Lyft in droves.
3) If you really see, Uber/Lyft ARE personal cars; people like you and me registering with Uber/Lyft and using our vehicles to ferry passengers and make money. So, the solution like i mentioned in my previous post is to ONLY allow shared ride Uber/Lyft & Taxis and enforce them to accept 2 (or even 3?) passengers at least [I am sure technology can be applied here to find a very innovative way of enforcing this in an automated fashion].

With personal vehicles off the horseshoe; that frees up the parking garages to be used for more ride share vans/shared uber/lyft pickups versus using the curbside. And of course, for those of us who are addicted to our personal vehicles we won't like it one bit!..but guess what during peak hour traffic we are going to get stuck on 405 or 105 getting to the airport AND definitely going to get stuck in the mess that LAX is right now so i don't think we have much of a choice (i almost ended up missing my 9 pm international flight last year..took 1 hour 15 mins to get to LAX from Irvine and then 35 mins to TBIT from the point where we exited 405).

The key here is to get more number of people into vehicles entering and exiting the airport roadway.


Not going to happen. And any variation of it won't happen until the people mover and Crenshaw Line is up and running. Uber Pool And Lyft's version of it is a choice not a requirement and matching people up who are going the same direction would probably work short distances to nearby hotels or rental car but more problematic going farther away without sacrificing time. Airport shuttle companies like Super Shuttle, already offer shared rides for longer distances with pickup times about 4+ hours before ones flight time is a nonstarter for many including myself.

Whether Uber drives you to the curb or your friend or spouse drops you off at the curb, whats the difference other than paying $75 dollars oneway to Uber vs a favor from friends and family?? Forcing people to pay to get to the airport isn't going to go down well.

For a moment let's forget about whether you, myself or someone else likes the idea and the emotions of the argument. In your example of a friend or someone else dropping us off to the airport; let's say myself, person in the same city as me and another person in the next city happen to be picked up at the airport; don't you agree that :
A) if all of us get picked up/dropped off by our friends/uber driver/spouses separately then we would have 3 vehicles (car/suv)?
B) if all 3 happen to share the same vehicle then it is just ONE vehicle on the airport roadway? [which is what Supershuttle/Primetime] used to do and it used to work very well for a number of people till Uber came along after which Uber killed supershuttle (it is not totally dead yet) and clogged up the LAX roadway which was bad enough before Uber came along.

So, going by the MATH logic and with the above example it is a DUMB idea to be doing away with (or targeting) long distance shuttles/vans. In fact the airport authority should be encouraging high occupancy shared vehicles regardless of APM or not in the long term because people would want the convenience of home/hotel direct to the curb side (albeit with a few quick intermediate stops). Remember, the APM is still inconvenient to a vast majority of people because it involves multiple hops (changing vehicles..lugging luggage etc.).

To your point of not going to happen...well if you asked someone 40 years back about APM or the new Tom Bradley mid field satellite terminal they would have said "Nope, not going to happen". Well it is happening now.
What i CAN tell you with 100% confidence is that as the passenger growth goes past 100 million in the next few years that NOT going to be sustainable if the airport authority does not act. LAX is going to be a gridlock (it already is if you ask me)...and shared ride vans & buses are not the problem.
 
seat38a
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:29 am

Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:38 pm

747megatop wrote:
seat38a wrote:
747megatop wrote:

A few quick points -
1) LAX was a mess even 10 years ago when Uber/Lyft weren't there.
2) Uber/Lyft only made it worse with passengers moving from shared ride vans to Uber/Lyft in droves.
3) If you really see, Uber/Lyft ARE personal cars; people like you and me registering with Uber/Lyft and using our vehicles to ferry passengers and make money. So, the solution like i mentioned in my previous post is to ONLY allow shared ride Uber/Lyft & Taxis and enforce them to accept 2 (or even 3?) passengers at least [I am sure technology can be applied here to find a very innovative way of enforcing this in an automated fashion].

With personal vehicles off the horseshoe; that frees up the parking garages to be used for more ride share vans/shared uber/lyft pickups versus using the curbside. And of course, for those of us who are addicted to our personal vehicles we won't like it one bit!..but guess what during peak hour traffic we are going to get stuck on 405 or 105 getting to the airport AND definitely going to get stuck in the mess that LAX is right now so i don't think we have much of a choice (i almost ended up missing my 9 pm international flight last year..took 1 hour 15 mins to get to LAX from Irvine and then 35 mins to TBIT from the point where we exited 405).

The key here is to get more number of people into vehicles entering and exiting the airport roadway.


Not going to happen. And any variation of it won't happen until the people mover and Crenshaw Line is up and running. Uber Pool And Lyft's version of it is a choice not a requirement and matching people up who are going the same direction would probably work short distances to nearby hotels or rental car but more problematic going farther away without sacrificing time. Airport shuttle companies like Super Shuttle, already offer shared rides for longer distances with pickup times about 4+ hours before ones flight time is a nonstarter for many including myself.

Whether Uber drives you to the curb or your friend or spouse drops you off at the curb, whats the difference other than paying $75 dollars oneway to Uber vs a favor from friends and family?? Forcing people to pay to get to the airport isn't going to go down well.

For a moment let's forget about whether you, myself or someone else likes the idea and the emotions of the argument. In your example of a friend or someone else dropping us off to the airport; let's say myself, person in the same city as me and another person in the next city happen to be picked up at the airport; don't you agree that :
A) if all of us get picked up/dropped off by our friends/uber driver/spouses separately then we would have 3 vehicles (car/suv)?
B) if all 3 happen to share the same vehicle then it is just ONE vehicle on the airport roadway? [which is what Supershuttle/Primetime] used to do and it used to work very well for a number of people till Uber came along after which Uber killed supershuttle (it is not totally dead yet) and clogged up the LAX roadway which was bad enough before Uber came along.

So, going by the MATH logic and with the above example it is a DUMB idea to be doing away with (or targeting) long distance shuttles/vans. In fact the airport authority should be encouraging high occupancy shared vehicles regardless of APM or not in the long term because people would want the convenience of home/hotel direct to the curb side (albeit with a few quick intermediate stops). Remember, the APM is still inconvenient to a vast majority of people because it involves multiple hops (changing vehicles..lugging luggage etc.).

To your point of not going to happen...well if you asked someone 40 years back about APM or the new Tom Bradley mid field satellite terminal they would have said "Nope, not going to happen". Well it is happening now.
What i CAN tell you with 100% confidence is that as the passenger growth goes past 100 million in the next few years that NOT going to be sustainable if the airport authority does not act. LAX is going to be a gridlock (it already is if you ask me)...and shared ride vans & buses are not the problem.


When has anything related to LAX been "logical"??? You suggest everyone throw away their emotions and think it through but when has anything being done at LAX or SoCal been logical? America is an individualistic society and it's never been easy to force the common good idea on people. Highly encouraging is a different matter but forcing people to do something won't go down well. I don't disagree with your ideas, I'm just separating whats realistic vs ideal.
 
747megatop
Posts: 1712
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:49 pm

seat38a wrote:
747megatop wrote:
seat38a wrote:

Not going to happen. And any variation of it won't happen until the people mover and Crenshaw Line is up and running. Uber Pool And Lyft's version of it is a choice not a requirement and matching people up who are going the same direction would probably work short distances to nearby hotels or rental car but more problematic going farther away without sacrificing time. Airport shuttle companies like Super Shuttle, already offer shared rides for longer distances with pickup times about 4+ hours before ones flight time is a nonstarter for many including myself.

Whether Uber drives you to the curb or your friend or spouse drops you off at the curb, whats the difference other than paying $75 dollars oneway to Uber vs a favor from friends and family?? Forcing people to pay to get to the airport isn't going to go down well.

For a moment let's forget about whether you, myself or someone else likes the idea and the emotions of the argument. In your example of a friend or someone else dropping us off to the airport; let's say myself, person in the same city as me and another person in the next city happen to be picked up at the airport; don't you agree that :
A) if all of us get picked up/dropped off by our friends/uber driver/spouses separately then we would have 3 vehicles (car/suv)?
B) if all 3 happen to share the same vehicle then it is just ONE vehicle on the airport roadway? [which is what Supershuttle/Primetime] used to do and it used to work very well for a number of people till Uber came along after which Uber killed supershuttle (it is not totally dead yet) and clogged up the LAX roadway which was bad enough before Uber came along.

So, going by the MATH logic and with the above example it is a DUMB idea to be doing away with (or targeting) long distance shuttles/vans. In fact the airport authority should be encouraging high occupancy shared vehicles regardless of APM or not in the long term because people would want the convenience of home/hotel direct to the curb side (albeit with a few quick intermediate stops). Remember, the APM is still inconvenient to a vast majority of people because it involves multiple hops (changing vehicles..lugging luggage etc.).

To your point of not going to happen...well if you asked someone 40 years back about APM or the new Tom Bradley mid field satellite terminal they would have said "Nope, not going to happen". Well it is happening now.
What i CAN tell you with 100% confidence is that as the passenger growth goes past 100 million in the next few years that NOT going to be sustainable if the airport authority does not act. LAX is going to be a gridlock (it already is if you ask me)...and shared ride vans & buses are not the problem.


When has anything related to LAX been "logical"??? You suggest everyone throw away their emotions and think it through but when has anything being done at LAX or SoCal been logical? America is an individualistic society and it's never been easy to force the common good idea on people. Highly encouraging is a different matter but forcing people to do something won't go down well. I don't disagree with your ideas, I'm just separating whats realistic vs ideal.

Absolutely, realistic vs ideal...there is a wide gap.
 
seat38a
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:29 am

Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:14 pm

747megatop wrote:
seat38a wrote:
747megatop wrote:
For a moment let's forget about whether you, myself or someone else likes the idea and the emotions of the argument. In your example of a friend or someone else dropping us off to the airport; let's say myself, person in the same city as me and another person in the next city happen to be picked up at the airport; don't you agree that :
A) if all of us get picked up/dropped off by our friends/uber driver/spouses separately then we would have 3 vehicles (car/suv)?
B) if all 3 happen to share the same vehicle then it is just ONE vehicle on the airport roadway? [which is what Supershuttle/Primetime] used to do and it used to work very well for a number of people till Uber came along after which Uber killed supershuttle (it is not totally dead yet) and clogged up the LAX roadway which was bad enough before Uber came along.

So, going by the MATH logic and with the above example it is a DUMB idea to be doing away with (or targeting) long distance shuttles/vans. In fact the airport authority should be encouraging high occupancy shared vehicles regardless of APM or not in the long term because people would want the convenience of home/hotel direct to the curb side (albeit with a few quick intermediate stops). Remember, the APM is still inconvenient to a vast majority of people because it involves multiple hops (changing vehicles..lugging luggage etc.).

To your point of not going to happen...well if you asked someone 40 years back about APM or the new Tom Bradley mid field satellite terminal they would have said "Nope, not going to happen". Well it is happening now.
What i CAN tell you with 100% confidence is that as the passenger growth goes past 100 million in the next few years that NOT going to be sustainable if the airport authority does not act. LAX is going to be a gridlock (it already is if you ask me)...and shared ride vans & buses are not the problem.


When has anything related to LAX been "logical"??? You suggest everyone throw away their emotions and think it through but when has anything being done at LAX or SoCal been logical? America is an individualistic society and it's never been easy to force the common good idea on people. Highly encouraging is a different matter but forcing people to do something won't go down well. I don't disagree with your ideas, I'm just separating whats realistic vs ideal.

Absolutely, realistic vs ideal...there is a wide gap.


Yeah I'll be riding the CAHSR bullet train to San Francisco before what your suggesting happens. ;)
 
timpdx
Posts: 674
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:54 am

Re: LAX to end curbside pick-ups by rideshare companies, taxis

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:36 pm

From the Greater LA blog on KCRW:

Views of the new pickup area and the busses

Image

Image
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