Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Thibault973
Topic Author
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:01 pm

Hi everyone,

Having just returned from a journey thru hell and back flying from Paris to Kiev with OS and LH I was wondering, why do airlines sell tickets with extremely tight airport connections when it's pretty obvious there is a big chance passengers and/or their luggages won't make it ?

Let me explain, I booked a ticket with LH from CDG to KBP with the outbound operated by OS via VIE and the return by LH via FRA. Connecting time in VIE was 30 minutes and 1 hour in FRA.

Now before you jump on me for being clueless and booking the ticket knowing that things could go wrong, let me say that I checked VIE's website which claims to offer the quickest tranfer time in Europe at 25 min for a Schengen to Non-Shengen flight operated by a *A member and I also did some research and found out the plane who would take me to VIE was overnighting in CDG, so there was no reason for it to be late.

Well my outbound flight ended up being late and while it took me only 6 min to go trough security in VIE (I ran like a maniac, fell and broke my phone) I missed my connection, like about 20 other persons on the flight. OS then rebooked me on a flight to FRA to connect there to KBP with again, a connecting time of just 45 minutes. Again, my flight to FRA was late and the only reason I didn't miss the connection was because the FRA-KBP leg left also late.

Return flight, same scenario, KBP-FRA flight is late, it takes about 35 min to go trought security and the only reason I made it onto my connecting flight is because it too was late.

A few months ago, I flew NBO-FRA-CDG with a 1 hour connection and although we barely made it, running like crazy in FRA, none of our bags (we were a group of 20) made it to CDG.

As I was complaning to the FA on my last leg last night and they told me that this is a reccuring pbm and that I wasn't the only one complaning so my question is pretty simple. Why do airlines allow booking systems to offer this crazy short airport connections when it probably cost them in the end ? I for example will avoir flying with LH and OS for the time being, when possible.

Thanks for your insights
 
lhrsfosyd91
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:47 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:08 pm

Your one off experience and few tales coming from others pale in comparison to the vast data available to airlines when establishing MCT.
 
smbukas
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:17 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:11 pm

Well, they are selling it, because airline believes it is a competitive advantage to offer short trip times even in some cases flight is late and there is a need to rebook and pay EU261 compensation (if arrival to final destination >3 hours).

I saw an extensive study few years ago on passenger behavior in Europe and business travelers are non-happy booking connections longer than one hour, but short connections also drive stress. The optimal connection for the average passenger is 55-60 minutes.

I fly quite frequently on Austrian and airBaltic they both are selling 30 minutes connections via VIE and RIX. In all cases I made it: even though, I see sometimes Austrian ground staff meeting passengers at the stairs of arriving aircraft and driving them with small buses directly to the connecting flight. So, they have a procedure on how to minimize the inconvenience of possible connections.

To sum everything up: airlines see tight connections as profitable to them and use home airport efficient facilities as their competitive advantage.
 
User avatar
bwest
Posts: 1134
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:54 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:21 pm

Whenever I book a trip, be it personal or for my colleageus at work, I always make sure there's a minimum connecting time of 1 hour. It just gives a bit more peace of mind and I hate running through airports like a maniac. It does help of course that I have lounge access, making the waiting all that more bearable.
 
dredgy
Posts: 502
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:26 pm

I will always book the shortest connecting flight time possible on the condition that I absolutely don’t need to be in the destination on time in case something does go wrong. I’ve made so many ludicrously tight connections I don’t stress anymore and had never missed a connection.

That came back to bite me a few days ago when I was booked (on separate Tickets) from Cape Town to Johannesburg on Mango, then onwards to Perth on SAA. The Mango flight was delayed so I ended up having 15 minutes to get off the plane, collect bags, drop bags and clear passport control. Needless to say I didn’t make it (I would’ve but bag drop was long since closed and I couldn’t find any staff)

SAA did reschedule me for free for two days later and Mango put me up in a hotel for two nights and paid for all my food as well so I can’t say I really learnt a lesson.

My life motto is always “if something goes wrong at least you have story”.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 390
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:28 pm

I am sorry you missed your flight, but airlines sell connections like this because the majority of passengers who book them make their connections. I almost always book the shortest itinerary available. I have better things to do with my time than wait around in an airport. I can't think of a single time that I have missed a flight when my inbound flight was on time.

Of course the shorter the connection time the more likely you are to miss your connection, but that's not because of bad MCT calculations. It's because flights are sometimes late.
 
vahancrazy
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:54 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:34 pm

Here a fun of Lufthansa 40min transfer time. Sometime a bit challenging but works nicely
 
TMccrury
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:24 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:34 pm

I booked a flight from RIC-ATL-HSV a few months ago that had a 30 minute connect time in ATL. DL made it know it was a tight connection. I took the chance on it and as I walked up to the gate for my connection, they were boarding and I walked right on to the plane. Just a few weeks ago, I took a bump to an alternate flight from RIC - BOS. I had a non-stop flight and they were looking for folks willing to take a flight through LGA and was paying 200.00 USD. I took it. I had just about an hour in LGA. We boarded on time and started the taxi. Then stopped in a holding area and sat there for 45 minutes due to ATC in NY. I missed that connection. DL put me on the next flight to BOS and all was well. It happens. Generally, I don't take anything less than 1 hour.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4686
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:41 pm

If you have the time to spend, it is a great way to milk the airlines via EU261.
 
passyflyer
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:58 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:46 pm

In most cases you will make it, and you will be happy that your overall flight duration was short. I am happy to book short connections because the alternative is nearly always worse.
 
Bricktop
Posts: 1504
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:53 pm

Book longer connections, get a little spotting in and maybe a cocktail. The last thing I want to have to fret over is a tight connection.
 
User avatar
InnsbruckFlyer
Posts: 292
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:35 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:59 pm

Miss connected on a 45 minute connection at FRA. My non-Schengen flight arrived at a remote stand 10 minutes late and when my bus arrived at the terminal, the bus for my flight to Innsbruck was leaving. I have a 30 minute non-Schengen to Schengen connection coming up at VIE in 2 weeks.....
Last edited by InnsbruckFlyer on Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last flown aircraft: DH8D OE-LGN < DH8D OE-LGI < E195 OE-LWE < DH8D OE-LGI < A320 D-AIUR < A320 D-AIZM < B738 PH-HZJ < B737 PH-XRD < B772 N766AN < B738 N855NN < B788 N45905 < A319 N808UA < A320 N482UA < B752 N19117
 
User avatar
DL747400
Posts: 968
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:00 pm

If you review the minimum connection time for the airport through which you are connecting and compare that to the flight schedules published by the carrier, you will notice that airlines routinely publish and offer for sale connections which do not meet the minimum connection time requirements.

I avoid short connections like the plague, opting instead to book longer connections. If you do a little bit of digging, most travel sites and even the airlines own web sites allow you to filter out those short connections or even apply your own minimum connect time when booking

For domestic travel, my own personal minimum connection is 2-hours, during which I will visit the airline lounge before proceeding to my connection at a leisurely pace. It is a very pleasant, less rushed and much less stressful way to travel. When combined with TSA Precheck, it makes for a travel experience that is just about as good as you can possibly make it.
Last edited by DL747400 on Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
Kno
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:08 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:04 pm

I try to never book a connection under 1 hour it’s just asking for trouble.
 
AstanaMagic
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:57 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:11 pm

TK, I need to get to TAS on twice monthly, with the long taxi times in the new IST, and long distances between gates, it’s almost impossible to make tight connections. TK offer a 1 hr connection which I have now missed 3 times. Currently I am avoiding TK for this reason and flying via TSE with KC, as TSE is small and easy to transit
2020: AGP, KSQ, LGW, LHR, MXP, SVQ, TAS, XRY, ZRH
A/C: 32B, 32S, 752, 763, E90
A/L: BA, HY, LX, 2L
 
TC957
Posts: 3870
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:12 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Book longer connections, get a little spotting in and maybe a cocktail. The last thing I want to have to fret over is a tight connection.

Perfectly said ! I never book my clients on tight connections - airline approved or not - especially when they are due to join a tour or cruise or they have business meetings with their clients set up.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8502
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:12 pm

DL747400 wrote:
If you review the minimum connection time for the airport through which you are connecting and compare that to the flight schedules published by the carrier, you will notice that airlines routinely publish and offer for same connections which do not meet the minimum connection time requirements.


So much wrong and uninformed with that single sentence...

Airports don't establish MCTs - carriers do. Carriers can set them by in-bound origin, carrier X to carrier Y, arriving concourse, aircraft size (longer for larger arriving aircraft), D-D, vs. D-I... any number of criteria. GDS do not display connections at less than applicable MCT. Look at the variety of MCTs across AA and DL at LAX, for example.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2490
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:15 pm

On the opposite side of the spectrum, you have airlines selling ridiculous long connections. For instance, have a look at BOS-CDG-AMM. The connection time in CDG is about 7 hours or longer!
 
Noshow
Posts: 1792
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:17 pm

I have to agree with the OP. There seems to be a change at travel agencys or in booking systems to sell super tight (hopeless) connections. Mind you often it is not that easy to rebook as alternate flights fill up fast and mostly with status customers of that airline. Being a so called frequent flyer that travels light and knows many airports and is not slow or anything I sometimes find myself running through airports to catch short connections others selected this way. I frequently barely make it without any stops in between flights inside the terminal. This is why lounge use gets harder and harder as well. I wonder what "normal" people do? Do they miss their flights all the time?
Last edited by Noshow on Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
DL747400
Posts: 968
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
If you review the minimum connection time for the airport through which you are connecting and compare that to the flight schedules published by the carrier, you will notice that airlines routinely publish and offer for same connections which do not meet the minimum connection time requirements.


So much wrong and uninformed with that single sentence...

Airports don't establish MCTs - carriers do. Carriers can set them by in-bound origin, carrier X to carrier Y, arriving concourse, aircraft size (longer for larger arriving aircraft), D-D, vs. D-I... any number of criteria. GDS do not display connections at less than applicable MCT. Look at the variety of MCTs across AA and DL at LAX, for example.


I never said that airports set MCT. Sorry that you interpreted it that way.

The reality is there are the published GUIDELINES, then there are the connections the airlines actually offer for sale. The offerings made available for sale often routinely violate the carrier's own guidelines.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
User avatar
intotheair
Posts: 1899
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:24 pm

Wow, I didn’t realize there were people who actually liked and sought out the shortest connections possible!

I almost always book nonstops even if it costs a little more. If I have to connect, then I try to book one with 60-80 minute layover. The perfect amount of time to get lunch, coffee, use the restroom, and get reading for boarding. I’ll book even longer if I’m headed overseas, but again, nonstops are the way to go.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
hohd
Posts: 942
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:25 pm

dredgy wrote:
I will always book the shortest connecting flight time possible on the condition that I absolutely don’t need to be in the destination on time in case something does go wrong. I’ve made so many ludicrously tight connections I don’t stress anymore and had never missed a connection.

That came back to bite me a few days ago when I was booked (on separate Tickets) from Cape Town to Johannesburg on Mango, then onwards to Perth on SAA. The Mango flight was delayed so I ended up having 15 minutes to get off the plane, collect bags, drop bags and clear passport control. Needless to say I didn’t make it (I would’ve but bag drop was long since closed and I couldn’t find any staff)

SAA did reschedule me for free for two days later and Mango put me up in a hotel for two nights and paid for all my food as well so I can’t say I really learnt a lesson.

My life motto is always “if something goes wrong at least you have story”.

Unless the airlines booked it that way, generally Mango does not have any obligation to put anyone for 2 nights as it was on 2 separate tickets. When I am on separate tickets I generally have 2 to 3 hours connection time.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:38 pm

If flying through FRA in summer, anything under two hours is pure madness. You might get lucky if you are arriving early in the morning but anything after that is high risk of missing your connection. With the airport getting extremely congested, even taxi times can last anywhere between 15 to 60 minutes and even then you might end up on a remote stand. This summer our A321 from MUC was parked at some remotely placed remote stand near runway 18. It was a 20 minute bus ride to the terminal. Luckily it was night time so our flight waited for us since it was spending the night abroad and could absorb the delay.

When flying through a big European airport, anything under 2 hours is risking it, especially if travelling with luggage. Airlines want to come across as competitive in terms of schedule but in the end they have the passengers go through a horrible flying experience of stressing and worrying.
 
dredgy
Posts: 502
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:40 pm

hohd wrote:
Unless the airlines booked it that way, generally Mango does not have any obligation to put anyone for 2 nights as it was on 2 separate tickets. When I am on separate tickets I generally have 2 to 3 hours connection time.


Mango had zero obligation (neither did SAA to reschedule the ticket) - I thought it was an insurance job. (Though it was possible to book those flights on one ticket, I just didn’t)

They put me up in the hotel for the first night so I could come back in the morning when SAAs office were open, and since they couldn’t get me on the next flight I went back to Mango to ask for a letter for insurance and when they found out I wouldn’t be flying out until the next day they insisted they extend the hotel stay. They then asked me if I needed any food and I said “No, it’s alright, I appreciate everything you’ve done already, insurance can pay for it.” They then gave me a stack of food vouchers anyway.

It was a bizarrely good and painless experience.

On the other hand, the new ticket left me with a 10 hour layover in Perth, (only 40 minutes left till boarding!!) and that was considerably more painful. I haven’t been outside in 4 days,
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8602
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:45 pm

I usually avoid flying with Delta into MSP or DTW due to the very short connection time I usually find myself with. ATL is also included at times; some connections are doable. AA through CLT has also been known to be short. Being sold a 35 minute connection and usually having to go from one end of the airport to the other sucks.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
beechnut
Posts: 937
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:31 pm

[quote="DL747400"

I avoid short connections like the plague, opting instead to book longer connections. If you do a little bit of digging, most travel sites and even the airlines own web sites allow you to filter out those short connections or even apply your own minimum connect time when booking

For domestic travel, my own personal minimum connection is 2-hours, during which I will visit the airline lounge before proceeding to my connection at a leisurely pace. It is a very pleasant, less rushed and much less stressful way to travel. When combined with TSA Precheck, it makes for a travel experience that is just about as good as you can possibly make it.[/quote]

^^^This.

It's simply a case of "buyer beware". As I get older (I'm 61), even though I'm in great shape for my age by being a hard-core cyclist, I don't handle stress as well as I used to. So I take steps to avoid stress:

-Arrive at the airport extra early
-Try to book non-stop flights were possible, if not, make sure I have enough time to connect at a leisurely pace (2 hrs domestic is good, 3 hrs international); if a non-stop flight costs say, $100 more, I'm prepared to pay extra
-Check-in online before leaving for the airport
-Travel as light as possible; unless I need to bring sports gear, carry-on only. Next week I leave for 10 days for a meeting in Rome for a committee I serve on, and I will bring carry-on only.

I've been caught out by connection times as much as 2 hours on overseas flights, by flight delays. I love cycling, but I hate running (knees). The last experience was at Zurich. My wife and I made it, but it was not fun. The flight was delayed at departure by weather, and at arrival, at the connection airport, a go-around due to an unstable approach in awful weather added to the delay.

Beech
 
DeltaConnection
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:16 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:49 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I usually avoid flying with Delta into MSP or DTW due to the very short connection time I usually find myself with. ATL is also included at times; some connections are doable. AA through CLT has also been known to be short. Being sold a 35 minute connection and usually having to go from one end of the airport to the other sucks.


Keeping in mind, when all goes according to plan, taxi times from the runway to the gate at MSP and DTW are shorter and so is the walking between gates at those terminals.

ATL you could land in T and have to leave out of F (although the Plane Train cuts those times down) and ATL is notorious for long taxis/waiting for a gate to open.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8602
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:23 pm

DeltaConnection wrote:
Keeping in mind, when all goes according to plan, taxi times from the runway to the gate at MSP and DTW are shorter and so is the walking between gates at those terminals.

At MSP (and ATL and CLT) I'm always cursed with having to arrive at one end of the airport and depart at the other. The last time I flew into MSP, we had been delayed at SEA for weather. We parked at the G concourse and I had to rush to catch my connection into GFK from the A concourse.

The final boarding call was flashing when I made it at the gate, though I told an agent to please radio the gate to tell them I was on my way. All that for nothing as I made my flight but we sat there waiting for more Seattle transfers to arrive (they were on my SEA-MSP flight).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2650
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:39 am

I once booked an international flight with a 50 minute connection at IAH with a change of terminals from B to D. Since the originating flight took off on time, the actual connection time was actually more than an hour. Since I am pretty familiar with IAH, I felt pretty comfortable booking such a short connection. If I were flying through an unfamiliar airport, I would want a minimum of 90 minutes to 2 hours.

With the policy of switching gates and even terminals of flights at some airports, I wouldn't want to risk a short connection at LHR or PHX. I once had a an early morning connection at PHX where they changed the terminal from the one printed on my boarding pass at HNL. Considering how spread out the terminals are at PHX, I was not amused. There wasn't a serious time problem, but didn't appreciate having to go all the way back to my original terminal.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6492
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:44 am

Simple, look at the itinerary and don’t buy a short connection. Sheeesh, this is easy.

GF
 
smallmj
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:37 pm

For me it is all about the consequences and recovery options. If I am connecting on to a once a day long haul flight I will make sure that there is a good long connection time. If I am connecting on to a short hop with flights every hour or two then I don't mind a short connection since I know that there are likely several later flights that they might squeeze me on to.

I'm also more likely to book a tight connection coming home then leaving home, since missing a connection at the start of a trip can mess the trip up quite badly. Missing a connection at the end has far fewer consequences. I'm self employed, so no boss to scold me.
 
mchei
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:05 pm

I’ve started to avoid tight connections as well. Whenever possible I try to fly point-to-point. One example: I’m based in BRE and I need to get to VIE. LH will send me through FRA and there’s a good chance that the connection is going to be tight. HAJ offers good direct connections to VIE which is why driving to HAJ and taking the flight from there means less stress and more reliability for me. I could mention more examples where it makes sense for me to drive to HAM instead of risking to lose connections in FRA or MUC.
The point is: I do many business trips where I try to be at home at night instead of staying in hotels. I know. That’s my personal preference. If I wanted to take the less stressful choice I’d fly the evening before or stay the night

Hubs are a good thing. But tight connections made them lose their credibility. This, I agree: for hubs less than one hour or even 90 minutes is madness.
F70-F100-E145-E170-E190-319-320-321-735–736-737-738-752-763–742-744-333-343-ATR72-Metroliner-Saab2000-Lockheed Electra-C172-C182-C182RG-MD11
 
cofannyc
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:22 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:33 pm

DL747400 wrote:
I never said that airports set MCT. Sorry that you interpreted it that way.

The reality is there are the published GUIDELINES, then there are the connections the airlines actually offer for sale. The offerings made available for sale often routinely violate the carrier's own guidelines.


I absolutely do not believe that and would like to see evidence of that. There are the highest level MCTs for an airport, but they do not control all journeys through that airport. There are exceptions based on O&D combinations, flight number combinations, carrier combinations, and terminal combinations at virtually all airports. The GDSes and reservations systems are very good at identifying the MCT that applies to a specific journey and it may be a shorter MCT than the standard airport MCT. That does not mean they are violating their own guidelines.
 
aklrno
Posts: 1578
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:08 pm

Knowing the airport and the usual problems expected for the time of year you are traveling can make a big difference. I don't mind a 1 hour connection on the same airline at LAX, but I would never do that if switching terminals. I am flying through SFO in December and UA offered a 65 minute connect RNO-SFO-AKL which is idiotic in a case where a late arrival is likely at SFO and there is only one flight to AKL that day. Last week I flew AKL-SFO-RNO and allowed myself 6 hours to connect. I spent the time in the beautiful Polaris lounge so not too bad. There had been a possibility for a 1 hour connection but I thought that unlikely. As it turned out I arrived way early at SFO but the early connection was sold out.

I understand all the reasons why airlines have change fees and charge walk-up prices for changes, but I think there should be a slightly different policy for connections. If you can make an earlier connection and there is a seat available they should just allow the change at no cost. By ticketing for the later flight I saved the airline and myself a hassle in case I didn't make the earlier connection. If I do switch, it costs the airline nothing and gives them several hours to sell an additional seat. We both win. In my case last week, my status level would let me change for free, but everyone should have the option.
 
mchei
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:46 am

aklrno wrote:
I understand all the reasons why airlines have change fees and charge walk-up prices for changes, but I think there should be a slightly different policy for connections. If you can make an earlier connection and there is a seat available they should just allow the change at no cost. By ticketing for the later flight I saved the airline and myself a hassle in case I didn't make the earlier connection. If I do switch, it costs the airline nothing and gives them several hours to sell an additional seat. We both win. In my case last week, my status level would let me change for free, but everyone should have the option.


I very much like this idea! But as people say here: airlines have this as a revenue stream and they are hardly going to give it up. I believe airlines make a considerable amount of money out of business travelers that are willing to pay to change on an earlier flight. I did it once and that brought me home four hours earlier and it saved me from staying in a cramped Frankfurt lounge for this amount of time.
F70-F100-E145-E170-E190-319-320-321-735–736-737-738-752-763–742-744-333-343-ATR72-Metroliner-Saab2000-Lockheed Electra-C172-C182-C182RG-MD11
 
aklrno
Posts: 1578
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:08 am

I had not thought about the savings UA would have by not having me clog their lounge and eat their food! Another reason to hurry me along. Although they may lose some revenue by not selling me a change fee they may gain the revenue by selling a last minute fair to a new traveler. If I choose to not pay a change fee for that earlier flight and the seat goes empty that is a total loss.
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 800
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:14 am

My experiences that stood out:

25 minutes in CPH with SAS, non-Schengen to Schengen. Connection was made with ease, and even our checked bags made it.

45 minutes in ADD with Ethiopian- that did feel a little tight, especially with remote parking and security checks, but the staff were able to get everyone through security pretty quickly.

1 hour in YYZ, connection missed as i got through immigration in 5 minutes and then waited 45 minutes for my bag to arrive, which i would then have to carry through customs and drop off again.

FAE with Atlantic Airways, was scheduled 40 minutes, landed really late, made it in 90 seconds! No airside connections, but i was able to calmly walk into arrivals, landside, through security, departures and onto the next aircraft (the door closed right behind me) in seconds..
 
efpmeneses
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:39 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:30 am

I have done transfer in 25 min in ARN with SAS and even checked bags arrived on time.

I was really surprised... original connection time was 45 min but 1st flight for delayed 20 min...

All went good, but usually don't trust this low time connections

Enviado do meu ASUS_X017DA através do Tapatalk
 
TC957
Posts: 3870
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:01 pm

On 27 Oct, all airlines and GDS systems will be changing to a new MCT standard led by IATA. Expect changes especially at those airports that sell themselves on short connecting times.
 
mchei
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:04 pm

Thanks for mentioning CPH! I absolutely forgot this but I remember having connections of 30 minutes there and made it every time. Never had a bus gate there as well.
F70-F100-E145-E170-E190-319-320-321-735–736-737-738-752-763–742-744-333-343-ATR72-Metroliner-Saab2000-Lockheed Electra-C172-C182-C182RG-MD11
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1138
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:38 pm

June, 2017: Flying LAX-FRA-ZWS (Stuttgart Railway station). Entire ticket on LH and Deutsche Bahn ICE train with LH number. One hour and seven minute connection at FRA.

We would have made it if FRA had more than just two officers at immigration and several large Asian families who who could not fathom (much less prepare for) why they each needed to be in possession of their OWN passport. We watched the time and were only halfway up when our departure time came and went. We got through eventually (literally 30 seconds to stamp our passport and we were through!), but after picking up our luggage we schlepped to the ticket office. Fortunately, being in business class (fulfilled my dream of a 747 top deck trans-Atlantic voyage!) we were escorted to the lounge after being booked on the next flight (the next LH-available train was four hours away). We were even served a shrimp salad on that 90-mile barely-30-minute flight.

My German friend pointed out that Lufthansa may be marketing this route to EU passport holders, as their passport line was automated but exclusive. We saw dozens of people using this line, but with American passports, no luck. Had we gotten through in time, we would have been fine.

Is this indicative of FRA in general? Or was this just one of those days where everything went verrückt?
 
aklrno
Posts: 1578
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:18 pm

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:44 pm

LH at FRA will go to extraordinary lengths to help you with connections at FRA especially if you are a premium passenger. Nonetheless, arriving a few minutes late, getting a very remote bus gate, and a distant departure gate can make FRA connections very stressful and occasionally unsuccessful. I'm kind of surprised that LH didn't notice your tight connection and send you through the special immigration area they have for such passengers.
In any case, I would never attempt a connection in less than 90 minutes for non-Schengen flights at FRA no matter what the airline offers.
 
Thibault973
Topic Author
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:29 pm

aklrno wrote:
LH at FRA will go to extraordinary lengths to help you with connections at FRA especially if you are a premium passenger. Nonetheless, arriving a few minutes late, getting a very remote bus gate, and a distant departure gate can make FRA connections very stressful and occasionally unsuccessful. I'm kind of surprised that LH didn't notice your tight connection and send you through the special immigration area they have for such passengers.
In any case, I would never attempt a connection in less than 90 minutes for non-Schengen flights at FRA no matter what the airline offers.


Most people are not premium passengers. I went to the special "tight connection" area, on my own. Still it was super mega crowded with over 50 person in this express lane already.

I have filled a complaint at OS since I arrived at destination with an over 4 hours delay and according to UE law am entitled to a 400euros compensation. I got an email 48hrs later saying they wont pay me a cent, so I have decided to go to court. Fun. Will never fly any LH airlines again.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:40 pm

Thibault973 wrote:
aklrno wrote:
LH at FRA will go to extraordinary lengths to help you with connections at FRA especially if you are a premium passenger. Nonetheless, arriving a few minutes late, getting a very remote bus gate, and a distant departure gate can make FRA connections very stressful and occasionally unsuccessful. I'm kind of surprised that LH didn't notice your tight connection and send you through the special immigration area they have for such passengers.
In any case, I would never attempt a connection in less than 90 minutes for non-Schengen flights at FRA no matter what the airline offers.


Most people are not premium passengers. I went to the special "tight connection" area, on my own. Still it was super mega crowded with over 50 person in this express lane already.

I have filled a complaint at OS since I arrived at destination with an over 4 hours delay and according to UE law am entitled to a 400euros compensation. I got an email 48hrs later saying they wont pay me a cent, so I have decided to go to court. Fun. Will never fly any LH airlines again.


What was their excuse? Why did they refuse to pay you the compensation?
 
User avatar
AirAfreak
Posts: 1002
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:20 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:41 am

I loathe Seattle Airport, for example, so I would not hesitate to purchase a short transfer at SEA.
Last edited by AirAfreak on Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
User avatar
AirAfreak
Posts: 1002
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:20 am

Re: Airlines selling extremely tight airport connections

Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:57 am

AirAfreak wrote:
The connecting airport is the deciding factor whether to choose a short or long transfer. Seattle is definitely on my short transfer list, for example, while Seoul is on top of the “I don’t mind” list for long airport transfers.

Imagine the experience of a pleasant and seamless check-in experience combined with the elegant and sparkling clean environment of Seoul/Incheon Airport. The softest volume of piano music playing within the background isn’t intrusive because it’s the thoughtful and elegant details among a host of passenger amenities that commands near and dear pleasantries of Christmas morning; the world can be yours.

The softest kiss from the warmest goodbye cradles you with comfort and care; reminding you of the distant land of happiness. And several hours later, the greyest of skies is keen to embrace you with an icy, cold shoulder. The halls of darkness holds on to you as you shoulder the burden of the grim and depressing halls of Sea-Tac; akin to a New York City landfill at winter. Yes, welcome to Seattle/Tacoma International Airport ladies and gentlemen; the La Guardia of the Pacific Northwest.
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 817Dreamliiner and 7 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos