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passengerpigeon
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Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:25 pm

What are the largest cities in the USA and Canada that are not linked by direct flights, and are located more than 3 hours apart by road or rail? I am using the geographical definition of a "city" as a contiguously developed area rather than the political definition, so a lack of LGA-SJC flights, for example, wouldn't count if there was LGA-SFO service.
 
IADCA
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:23 pm

This is an interesting thought exercise and a tough one to do in any systematic manner. I suspect what you'll end up with is something that's long and thin (otherwise could be served on an RJ), likely with some other barrier to entry, such as being transborder. There are some examples of pretty substantial city pairs that only have seasonal service, like Vancouver to Boston and Washington and Montreal to Phoenix. I'm really struggling to come up with more than a few that don't have any service at all. One that did jump out is YVR-PHL. But I'm sure others can do better.

Also, your caveat is interesting. There's an argument using that definition that everything from Philly to Boston is one city. I know that's not what you meant, but again, an interesting exercise.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:24 pm

passengerpigeon wrote:
What are the largest cities in the USA and Canada that are not linked by direct flights, and are located more than 3 hours apart by road or rail? I am using the geographical definition of a "city" as a contiguously developed area rather than the political definition, so a lack of LGA-SJC flights, for example, wouldn't count if there was LGA-SFO service.


In terms of metro size, and not demand, I believe these are some
PHL/MIA-YVR
SAT-YYZ
AUS/SAT/STL/PDX-YUL
PDX-CLE/MSY/TPA/MIA/FLL/RDU/IND/PIT
SAT-BOS
SAN-RDU/CLE/CVG/PIT
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
IPFreely
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:43 pm

Shockingly for a major hub, DTW has no service to ABQ, BOI, CAK, COS, ICT, RIC, RNO, TUL, TUS, YYC, YEG,or YWG, among others.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:09 pm

El Paso has no service to New York, Miami or San Francisco.

Memphis has no service to Boston, Salt Lake City, New Orleans, San Francisco or San Diego.
 
klm617
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:51 pm

DTW to ANC/YVR/ONT/TUS/YYC
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
IPFreely
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:55 pm

klm617 wrote:
DTW to ANC/YVR/ONT/TUS/YYC


DTW has service to YVR. Albeit summer seasonal for cruise ship traffic and tourists coming to DTW, but it's served nonetheless.
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:03 am

YVR-MIA, but that's because the main sun and sand markets in BC are Mexico, Hawaii, Los Angeles/Palm Springs, Las Vegas and Phoenix/Scottsdale. Florida in general, and especially South Florida, is more of an Ontario/Quebec/Maritimes thing, and even then Fort Lauderdale gets more Canadian destinations than MIA. Why, I don't know.

Atlanta and San Diego were the two biggest gaps in YVR's transborder network, but AC restarted YVR-SAN a couple of years ago as an Express (Jazz) route, and Delta extended their summer ATL-YVR to year-round on September 1.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:08 am

klm617 wrote:
DTW to ANC/YVR/ONT/TUS/YYC

ONT is not really one of the largest US cities
 
IADCA
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:40 am

DTWLAX wrote:
klm617 wrote:
DTW to ANC/YVR/ONT/TUS/YYC

ONT is not really one of the largest US cities


By the OP's definition it is...because it'd be part of the same city as LA. Which also means it has service from pretty much everywhere using the same definition.
 
klm617
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:09 am

IADCA wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
klm617 wrote:
DTW to ANC/YVR/ONT/TUS/YYC

ONT is not really one of the largest US cities


By the OP's definition it is...because it'd be part of the same city as LA. Which also means it has service from pretty much everywhere using the same definition.


Is it not bigger than the Detroit area it ranks 13th as one of the largest metro areas.

13
Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA MSA
4,622,361
4,224,851
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
IADCA
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:55 pm

klm617 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
ONT is not really one of the largest US cities


By the OP's definition it is...because it'd be part of the same city as LA. Which also means it has service from pretty much everywhere using the same definition.


Is it not bigger than the Detroit area it ranks 13th as one of the largest metro areas.

13
Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA MSA
4,622,361
4,224,851


A noun and a verb and DTW, as always.

But to answer the question. Yes, but, directly from the OP, it doesn't matter:

passengerpigeon wrote:
What are the largest cities in the USA and Canada that are not linked by direct flights, and are located more than 3 hours apart by road or rail? I am using the geographical definition of a "city" as a contiguously developed area rather than the political definition, so a lack of LGA-SJC flights, for example, wouldn't count if there was LGA-SFO service.


Just like the Peninsula is developed all the way from San Francisco to San Jose, the LA Basin is one contiguous development area all the way from the coast along the 10 to ONT. If you lump SJC in with SFO, you lump ONT in with LAX.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:42 pm

IPFreely wrote:
Shockingly for a major hub, DTW has no service to ABQ, BOI, CAK, COS, ICT, RIC, RNO, TUL, TUS, YYC, YEG,or YWG, among others.


Shockingly, everyone of those can be reached from DTW by a plane, not non-stop perhaps. Every hub or large city doesn’t need non-stop service.
 
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seb146
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:57 pm

I thought WN flew PDX-AUS and PDX-STL? I know WN used to not fly SEA-PDX. I am not sure if they still avoid that route.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:51 pm

Very Indy centric...but there's no non-stops from IND to PIT, CLE, BNA, or STL.

It's totally base on metro size only, though. IND-STL is definitely driveable (3.5 hrs), and driving between IND-BNA and IND-CLE are also tolerable (Both are ~4.5 hrs drive).
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
escondido
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:13 pm

YEG-ORD, YEG-EWR/JFK, YEG-DFW
 
MAH4546
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:11 pm

Miami-Vancouver is the largest U.S.-Canada pair, but Air Transat starts it next month (from FLL).

Miami-Portland and Boston-San Antonio have to be way up there.
a.
 
masgniw
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:34 pm

LAX (#3) to Havana (#7)
 
IADCA
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:40 pm

masgniw wrote:
LAX (#3) to Havana (#7)


You may wish to read the OP, not just the thread title, especially the part I've bolded:

passengerpigeon wrote:
What are the largest cities in the USA and Canada that are not linked by direct flights, and are located more than 3 hours apart by road or rail? I am using the geographical definition of a "city" as a contiguously developed area rather than the political definition, so a lack of LGA-SJC flights, for example, wouldn't count if there was LGA-SFO service.
 
masgniw
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:41 pm

IADCA wrote:
masgniw wrote:
LAX (#3) to Havana (#7)


You may wish to read the OP, not just the thread title, especially the part I've bolded:

passengerpigeon wrote:
What are the largest cities in the USA and Canada that are not linked by direct flights, and are located more than 3 hours apart by road or rail? I am using the geographical definition of a "city" as a contiguously developed area rather than the political definition, so a lack of LGA-SJC flights, for example, wouldn't count if there was LGA-SFO service.


Well which one is it, then?
 
samuelx88
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:43 pm

I don't know about transborder or US domestic flights, but I've made a table for the largest Canadian city pairs with no direct flight as of summer 2019. The results were the following, sorted by city pair size:

YVR-YQB
YEG-YQB
YWG-YQB
YWG-YXU
YHZ-YQB

That's all for the 11 largest Canadian cities (Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Calgary, Ottawa, Edmonton, Québec City, Winnipeg, London and Halifax)
 
IADCA
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:21 pm

masgniw wrote:
IADCA wrote:
masgniw wrote:
LAX (#3) to Havana (#7)


You may wish to read the OP, not just the thread title, especially the part I've bolded:

passengerpigeon wrote:
What are the largest cities in the USA and Canada that are not linked by direct flights, and are located more than 3 hours apart by road or rail? I am using the geographical definition of a "city" as a contiguously developed area rather than the political definition, so a lack of LGA-SJC flights, for example, wouldn't count if there was LGA-SFO service.


Well which one is it, then?


Everyone seems to have read it the only rational way, which is to take the more detailed version over the high-level summary. If you're asked to respond to an answer on a test, do you respond to the question itself or to the section header above it?
 
masgniw
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:39 pm

IADCA wrote:
masgniw wrote:
IADCA wrote:

You may wish to read the OP, not just the thread title, especially the part I've bolded:



Well which one is it, then?


Everyone seems to have read it the only rational way, which is to take the more detailed version over the high-level summary. If you're asked to respond to an answer on a test, do you respond to the question itself or to the section header above it?


This is a bad analogy and I won’t answer it until you come up with a better one.
 
IADCA
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:17 am

masgniw wrote:
IADCA wrote:
masgniw wrote:

Well which one is it, then?


Everyone seems to have read it the only rational way, which is to take the more detailed version over the high-level summary. If you're asked to respond to an answer on a test, do you respond to the question itself or to the section header above it?


This is a bad analogy and I won’t answer it until you come up with a better one.


Why don't you justify your own position, which is contrary to the interpretation of every other person in the thread, then? He literally only asks one question between the title of the thread and the OP. He asked one question (and added important detail explaining it, meaning he'd clearly thought about it), and your answer doesn't respond to it. There's one request. While the title may be an inaccurate summary of the request, there is exactly one question asked. Why is that difficult to understand?

But fine: if you're reading a news article, which is more important to understanding: the text of the article, or the headline? Is it possible for a title to inaccurately describe an article? Is it possible for an article to inaccurately describe a title? Why or why not?

I don't mean to be overly rude with this, but I don't know how you can reasonably read the title and the opening post and think Havana is within the scope of the request. The post itself provides a detailed explanation of exactly what the poster was seeking. For example, if he had left "North American" out of the title, would you have responded with the two largest unconnected cities in the entire world, despite the clear text of the opening post?
Last edited by IADCA on Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
masgniw
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:32 am

IADCA wrote:
masgniw wrote:
IADCA wrote:

Everyone seems to have read it the only rational way, which is to take the more detailed version over the high-level summary. If you're asked to respond to an answer on a test, do you respond to the question itself or to the section header above it?


This is a bad analogy and I won’t answer it until you come up with a better one.


Why don't you justify your own position, which is contrary to the interpretation of every other person in the thread, then? He literally only asks one question between the title of the thread and the OP. He asked one question (and added important detail explaining it, meaning he'd clearly thought about it), and your answer doesn't respond to it. There's one request. While the title may be an inaccurate summary of the request, there is exactly one question asked. Why is that difficult to understand?

But fine: if you're reading a news article, which is more important to understanding: the text of the article, or the headline? Is it possible for a title to inaccurately describe an article? Is it possible for an article to inaccurately describe a title? Why or why not?

I don't mean to be overly rude with this, but I don't know how you can reasonably read the title and the opening post and think Havana is within the scope of the request. The post itself provides a detailed explanation of exactly what the poster was seeking. For example, if he had left "North American" out of the title, would you have responded with the two largest unconnected cities in the entire world, despite the clear text of the opening post?


My position is that you could have addressed this in a reasonable, straightforward way. I'm fine being wrong -- I'm adult enough to admit that. But, like seemingly every other anet poster, you dive deep into the world of pedantry and ad hominem attacks. Good bye.
 
IADCA
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Re: Largest North American city pairs with no direct flights

Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:45 am

masgniw wrote:
IADCA wrote:
masgniw wrote:

This is a bad analogy and I won’t answer it until you come up with a better one.


Why don't you justify your own position, which is contrary to the interpretation of every other person in the thread, then? He literally only asks one question between the title of the thread and the OP. He asked one question (and added important detail explaining it, meaning he'd clearly thought about it), and your answer doesn't respond to it. There's one request. While the title may be an inaccurate summary of the request, there is exactly one question asked. Why is that difficult to understand?

But fine: if you're reading a news article, which is more important to understanding: the text of the article, or the headline? Is it possible for a title to inaccurately describe an article? Is it possible for an article to inaccurately describe a title? Why or why not?

I don't mean to be overly rude with this, but I don't know how you can reasonably read the title and the opening post and think Havana is within the scope of the request. The post itself provides a detailed explanation of exactly what the poster was seeking. For example, if he had left "North American" out of the title, would you have responded with the two largest unconnected cities in the entire world, despite the clear text of the opening post?


My position is that you could have addressed this in a reasonable, straightforward way. I'm fine being wrong -- I'm adult enough to admit that. But, like seemingly every other anet poster, you dive deep into the world of pedantry and ad hominem attacks. Good bye.


I'm not sure how much more straightforward I could have been than my initial reply to you. You apparently required repeated explanation of what seemed to be to be a pretty simple concept, which made it a lot less straightforward. Adios.

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