Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
FlyRow wrote:Lack of money, smaller demand from BRU.
Sabena was mainly aimed at Africa and the USA, the 744's range wasn't needed.
American 767 wrote:Because they decided to move forward with the A340 instead. Swissair wasn't very loyal to Boeing, other than being the launch customer for the 747-300. The Classic 747 is the only Boeing (if you don't count McDD) model Swissair has ever bought. Sabena was, for a long time, a Boeing customer since the 707 came out in 1960, but in the end, they became a lot more loyal to Airbus than Boeing.
Another one that has flown the 747-300 but not the 400 is Egypt Air. They also chose the A340.
Bhoy wrote:Swissair operated a total of 7 Boeing Aircraft in their whole history. 2 747-200B’s from 1971 to 1984, when they were introduced, their whole Longhaul fleet was DC-8s and CV990s. DC-10s joined the fleet in the mid 70s as the Coronados were retired.
In 1983, Swissair took delivery of their first 747-300. This fleet grew to comprise 2 747-300s, and 3 747-300M Combis.
Looking at that, it doesn't Appear they needed the Capacity beyond a few routes, but the cargo capacity was welcome.
The 747-400 was introduced only a few years later (first delivery 1989), at which point, Swissair was ordering the MD-11 to replace the DC-10, and had that met McDonnell Douglas’ specifications, Swissair would have had no need for extra long haul capacity, as the A310-200/-300 had taken over the ‘smaller’ capacity requirements in their fleet.
The A330-200 didn’t join Swissair’s fleet until 1998, and Swissair never operated an A340 (they had ordered the A340-600 as an MD-11 replacement towards the end of the 90’s, but they went bust before delivery, and Swiss changed the order to A340-300s to better suit their fleet size). The A330-300 first appeared with Swiss in 2009.
UA857 wrote:They've operated the 747-100/200/300 But Why Didn't they order The -400 varient?
B-HOP wrote:Both didn't need the 744 as they were not big in Asia. In the late 90's, SN uses their 747-300 Combi to JNB and NRT, in fact SN took the last -300 combi in 1990, NRT was dropped in 2001 just before SN folded,
SR to several US Cities like ATL, BOS (non daily), Mumbai and Hong Kong, they don't need the range of -400 to US and the HKG flights were later upgrade to all MD-11, US routes to 332, the route that justify 747-400 combi is NRT/SIN/HKG and maybe JFK, too small to justify a seperate fleet, esp MD-12 (MD-11 stretch is on the pipeline).
S Air Group was then formed and ordered a large number of Airbus aircraft, with an aim for the member's fleet to be exclusively Airbus FBW aircraft, 5 (I thought it was 8) A346 was ordered for Swissair and 2 was ordered for SN, the SN order wasn't built I think and SN took 2 new 340-313X and replaced a pair of -200, that pair later went to Air Tahiti Nui, joining a pair from AOM in France
Kev
blacksoviet wrote:B-HOP wrote:Both didn't need the 744 as they were not big in Asia. In the late 90's, SN uses their 747-300 Combi to JNB and NRT, in fact SN took the last -300 combi in 1990, NRT was dropped in 2001 just before SN folded,
SR to several US Cities like ATL, BOS (non daily), Mumbai and Hong Kong, they don't need the range of -400 to US and the HKG flights were later upgrade to all MD-11, US routes to 332, the route that justify 747-400 combi is NRT/SIN/HKG and maybe JFK, too small to justify a seperate fleet, esp MD-12 (MD-11 stretch is on the pipeline).
S Air Group was then formed and ordered a large number of Airbus aircraft, with an aim for the member's fleet to be exclusively Airbus FBW aircraft, 5 (I thought it was 8) A346 was ordered for Swissair and 2 was ordered for SN, the SN order wasn't built I think and SN took 2 new 340-313X and replaced a pair of -200, that pair later went to Air Tahiti Nui, joining a pair from AOM in France
Kev
Did the -300 Combi aircraft have First Class and Business Class?
blacksoviet wrote:B-HOP wrote:Both didn't need the 744 as they were not big in Asia. In the late 90's, SN uses their 747-300 Combi to JNB and NRT, in fact SN took the last -300 combi in 1990, NRT was dropped in 2001 just before SN folded,
SR to several US Cities like ATL, BOS (non daily), Mumbai and Hong Kong, they don't need the range of -400 to US and the HKG flights were later upgrade to all MD-11, US routes to 332, the route that justify 747-400 combi is NRT/SIN/HKG and maybe JFK, too small to justify a seperate fleet, esp MD-12 (MD-11 stretch is on the pipeline).
S Air Group was then formed and ordered a large number of Airbus aircraft, with an aim for the member's fleet to be exclusively Airbus FBW aircraft, 5 (I thought it was 8) A346 was ordered for Swissair and 2 was ordered for SN, the SN order wasn't built I think and SN took 2 new 340-313X and replaced a pair of -200, that pair later went to Air Tahiti Nui, joining a pair from AOM in France
Kev
Did the -300 Combi aircraft have First Class and Business Class?
mercure1 wrote:Not sure either SR or SN needed the capacity.
Keep in mind 3 of 5 SR -300s we combis while both SN ones were combi also.
MIflyer12 wrote:FlyRow wrote:Lack of money, smaller demand from BRU.
Sabena was mainly aimed at Africa and the USA, the 744's range wasn't needed.
Within a couple years of the end Sabena was flying 747-(347s?), MD-11s, 342s, 343s, 332s, and 333s.
oschkosch wrote:Does it really matter why some now vanished airline did or did not do whatever back then?
ikramerica wrote:Thanks to Sabena I got to fly on the 743. Never flew on a Combi, but was a pax on 741, 742, SP, 743, 744D, 744, 744ER. Only missed out on the SR. Hopefully I’ll get a flight on the -8 one day.
jfk777 wrote:Swissair did fly their 743 fleet for over 20 years until they went belly up.
B-HOP wrote:S Air Group was then formed and ordered a large number of Airbus aircraft, with an aim for the member's fleet to be exclusively Airbus FBW aircraft, 5 (I thought it was 8) A346 was ordered for Swissair and 2 was ordered for SN, the SN order wasn't built I think and SN took 2 new 340-313X and replaced a pair of -200, that pair later went to Air Tahiti Nui, joining a pair from AOM in France
Kev
jfk777 wrote:Swissair did look into the 744 but at the time they felt Boeing wanted too rich a price for them. Maybe Boeing wouldn't take the old 747-300 in trade. Swissair did fly their 743 fleet for over 20 years until they went belly up. Great looking planes, the current SWISS 777 looks great too.
MIflyer12 wrote:FlyRow wrote:Lack of money, smaller demand from BRU.
Sabena was mainly aimed at Africa and the USA, the 744's range wasn't needed.
Within a couple years of the end Sabena was flying 747-(347s?), MD-11s, 342s, 343s, 332s, and 333s.
DouglasDC10 wrote:
Sabena's Boeing customer code was 29, so they were 747-329s (47 was Western Air Lines). The plan was to have an al Airbus fleet with a single flight deck by the end of the 1990s, so four more A340s were on order. Two of them to replace the 747-300s and two of them to replace the MD-11s. It should also be noted that the MD-11s were wetleased from another Belgian Airline, CityBird (the Air Belgium of the 1990s...), and not operated by Sabena itself.
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:jfk777 wrote:Swissair did fly their 743 fleet for over 20 years until they went belly up.
Twice wrong. For them to do so, it would mean they had received their first 743 as early as 1980, whereas it only arrived in March 1983. Also, they didn't keep them until their end. The last two left the fleet in September 2000, that is a good year before the airline went belly up.
jfk777 wrote:Wouldn't 1983 to 2000 generally be considered " 20 years " ? Is that really such a great difference or do you split hair ?
UA857 wrote:They've operated the 747-100/200/300 But Why Didn't they order The -400 varient?
brubiac wrote:Boeing proposed Sabena to have their 2nd 747-300 delivered as a 747-400 instead. I thought OOSGD was the last -300 being build. (1989 if i’m not mistaken)
But due to a other cockpit then the -300 the proposal was denied by Sabena for the -400 series.