NonTechAvLover
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What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:39 am

I hope it is not against forum rules to start a topic like this, which is a bit personal in nature, but if not against the rules, I would like to hear what cooler heads think.

I have an Istanbul-SAW flight on Qatar Airways tomorrow. Going to bed last night I was a bit worried about the runway incursion at SAW, which meant very few flights were landing in or taking off from SAW, but I thought that would be cleared by Thursday. I was also a bit worried about the tension in the region.

Then I woke up this morning to the news of the FAA suspension of flights over the Gulf, the crash of the UIA plane and some kind of Iranian retaliation against the U.S. bases in Iraq (though I am not sure about the details of that last one).

If I have to see civilian aircraft dancing amidst weapon fire, I prefer it to be accompanied by the calming presence of Bruce Willis and I doubt he will be on my flight tomorrow.

Not taking the flight means losing a hefty payment I have already made towards a vacation, and flying has the obvious risk or anxiety.

What would you do?

Thanks in advance for the answers.
 
downdata
Posts: 576
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Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:55 am

Where are you flying from? Can you arrange an alternate flight to SAW that avoids the conflict zone?
 
pythoniels
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:54 pm

Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:58 am

I’d personally thrust on the advise of the authorities. Seen it after the. MH17 crash that the particular area was being avoided by airlines. That being said, many commercial flights still cross Iraq/Afghanistan etc. Personally I’m not a big fan out of it, but what can you do? Airlines sometimes change the routing a bit.

Avoiding these airspaces is the best and only thing airlines can do. I wouldn’t mind paying some extra $$$ for the extra fuel.
Last edited by pythoniels on Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
NonTechAvLover
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Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:17 am

downdata wrote:
Where are you flying from? Can you arrange an alternate flight to SAW that avoids the conflict zone?

I am already in Istanbul.
 
NonTechAvLover
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Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:29 am

pythoniels wrote:
I’d personally thrust on the advise of the authorities. Seen it after the. MH16 crash that the particular area was being avoided by airlines. That being said, many commercial flights still cross Iraq/Afghanistan etc. Personally I’m not a big fan out of it, but what can you do? Airlines sometimes change the routing a bit.

Avoiding these airspaces is the best and only thing airlines can do. I wouldn’t mind paying some extra $$$ for the extra fuel.

With Iraq and Syria also closed to most and Saudi Arabia etc. closed to Qatar, avoidance from Istanbul to Doha becomes pretty impossible without Iran. I guess it can be done but it would be a very, very long flight.
 
jetwet1
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Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:08 pm

I woke up to a company email to let me know my QR flights are cancelled and I would be rebooked on another airline.
 
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LH748
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Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:14 pm

I'm sure the Iranians will make sure to not shoot down their allies so you should be safe
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MadameConcorde
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Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:05 pm

I am not fearful.
If I have to go somewhere for a good reason, I'll go.

I was in Iran a good number of times. All parts of Iran.
Doing flights on all kinds of Iranian airlines old planes.
Most are gone now so no regret.
Planning to go again in 2020. Kish Air Show and other places.

Lufthansa is my airline of choice to Tehran.
Then I catch the mero to Mehrabad airport and fly off again.

Always hope for the better.
Down your street can be just as unsafe maybe more even.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Sokes
Posts: 572
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:32 am

NonTechAvLover wrote:
Going to bed last night I was a bit worried about the runway incursion at SAW, which meant very few flights were landing in or taking off from SAW, but I thought that would be cleared by Thursday. I was also a bit worried about the tension in the region.

Then I woke up this morning to the news of the FAA suspension of flights over the Gulf, the crash of the UIA plane and some kind of Iranian retaliation against the U.S. bases in Iraq (though I am not sure about the details of that last one).



Are you still alive?

""Ask yourself whether your thinking is productive. If you are actively solving a problem, such as by trying to find ways to increase your chances of success, keep working on solutions.
If, however, you're wasting your time ruminating, change the channel in your brain. Acknowledge that your thoughts aren't helpful, and get up and go do something else for a few minutes to get your brain focused on something more productive."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ant-change"
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
NonTechAvLover
Topic Author
Posts: 74
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Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:36 am

Sokes wrote:
NonTechAvLover wrote:
Going to bed last night I was a bit worried about the runway incursion at SAW, which meant very few flights were landing in or taking off from SAW, but I thought that would be cleared by Thursday. I was also a bit worried about the tension in the region.

Then I woke up this morning to the news of the FAA suspension of flights over the Gulf, the crash of the UIA plane and some kind of Iranian retaliation against the U.S. bases in Iraq (though I am not sure about the details of that last one).



Are you still alive?

""Ask yourself whether your thinking is productive. If you are actively solving a problem, such as by trying to find ways to increase your chances of success, keep working on solutions.
If, however, you're wasting your time ruminating, change the channel in your brain. Acknowledge that your thoughts aren't helpful, and get up and go do something else for a few minutes to get your brain focused on something more productive."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ant-change"


Firstly, a belated thank you for your concerns. As the fact of my reply to your question betrays, the answer to your question is in the affirmative. The flight from Istanbul to Doha over Iranian airspace the day after the shooting of flight 752 was a bit nervy. The return trip 10 days later, not as much.

I also appreciate the advice which follows your question, but am not sure if I can say I am in full agreement with it. I will propose two answers, neither of which I authored:

The first comes from from my late clinical psychology professor, whose lectures I enjoyed tremendously. When the issue of fear of flying was being discussed by the students in one of our classes (in some high-flying academic/medical terms), he interjected and said: “Well, we walk, we swim, but we do not fly.” I appreciate the Enlightenment worldview that everything is susceptible to domination by the power of the human mind (thinking, Reason etc.), I find it unrealistic, overly sanguine and as off-base as some of the other meta-narratives preceding it (an example would be praying for one’s plane to arrive safely). I understand the desire to think of the human mind as a gadget that its owner has full control over, which he is prepared to exercise after a cool calculation of which among his thoughts are productive and which are not, switches the channels, as if by a remote control. I am afraid the reality is a bit more complicated than that.

Which brings me to the second thought, maybe an expression of the first in a much more eloquent way:

“But, orderly to end where I begun.
Our wills and fates do so contrary run
That our devices still are overthrown.
Our thoughts are ours, their ends, none of our own.

Best regards,
 
Sokes
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Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:33 am

NonTechAvLover wrote:
... I understand the desire to think of the human mind as a gadget that its owner has full control over, which he is prepared to exercise after a cool calculation of which among his thoughts are productive and which are not, switches the channels, as if by a remote control. I am afraid the reality is a bit more complicated than that.

...
Our thoughts are ours, their ends, none of our own.

Best regards,


Fantastic answer. You are of course right. I apologize for my earlier irony.
While not meeting the diagnostic criteria, I have a lot of autistic symptoms. Such people have a high risk for anxiety. Strange enough, I jumped from a 10 m board when I was only seven. I wonder if it is a problem of regulation = too much or too little anxiety. A little bit of anxiety would have served me well during my studies. Did you know that a low to moderate level of anxiety is (after intelligence) the second best predictor for academic success? Of course it's about low to moderate levels.
So I have a surprising worry free live, but I feel I would have had a much more successful live with at least some worries. Unfortunately my life isn't a gadget either.
I also saw in TV a scientist who mentioned "We could breed mice with extreme low levels of anxiety. But they would not have a good chance of survival."
Interesting enough, my son is a little claustrophobic.

I don't know if this refers to only worries or to (stronger) anxieties, but I read about the following thought experiment:
If one worries about something imagine one watches TV and sees an actor who is oneself.
But I guess that's for people who are not very self-aware. From your post I conclude you are well aware of the irrationality of your thoughts and are still overwhelmed.
Well, you didn't allow your fears to disrupt your life. You took the flight. Your life seems to be more of a gadget than mine. So congrats.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
NonTechAvLover
Topic Author
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:09 am

Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:16 pm

Sokes wrote:
NonTechAvLover wrote:
... I understand the desire to think of the human mind as a gadget that its owner has full control over, which he is prepared to exercise after a cool calculation of which among his thoughts are productive and which are not, switches the channels, as if by a remote control. I am afraid the reality is a bit more complicated than that.

...
Our thoughts are ours, their ends, none of our own.

Best regards,


Fantastic answer. You are of course right. I apologize for my earlier irony.
While not meeting the diagnostic criteria, I have a lot of autistic symptoms. Such people have a high risk for anxiety. Strange enough, I jumped from a 10 m board when I was only seven. I wonder if it is a problem of regulation = too much or too little anxiety. A little bit of anxiety would have served me well during my studies. Did you know that a low to moderate level of anxiety is (after intelligence) the second best predictor for academic success? Of course it's about low to moderate levels.
So I have a surprising worry free live, but I feel I would have had a much more successful live with at least some worries. Unfortunately my life isn't a gadget either.
I also saw in TV a scientist who mentioned "We could breed mice with extreme low levels of anxiety. But they would not have a good chance of survival."
Interesting enough, my son is a little claustrophobic.

I don't know if this refers to only worries or to (stronger) anxieties, but I read about the following thought experiment:
If one worries about something imagine one watches TV and sees an actor who is oneself.
But I guess that's for people who are not very self-aware. From your post I conclude you are well aware of the irrationality of your thoughts and are still overwhelmed.
Well, you didn't allow your fears to disrupt your life. You took the flight. Your life seems to be more of a gadget than mine. So congrats.


Hello and my apologies for not answering earlier. I wanted to have some time to think about your post before writing an answer.

First, I did not have any problems with you post or irony, I thought you were making a helpful suggestion. And who can be offended by any irony in the question "are you still alive?" if he is able to answer? :)

I remember reading that a lot of studies show that certain levels of stress/anxiety enhance performance in task oriented tests. I am also not surprised that this can be a predictor of academic success. All that being said, I had a few thoughts about your comments, especially regarding your having autistic symptoms, being relatively care-free and your statement that maybe you would have had a much more successful life with at least some worries. I do not know what definition of success you had in mind when making that statement. In one's younger years, one is very much inclined to thinking about success in proxies like grades (school years) and money (early career years) and one's worries and anxieties revolve around those issues. Later in life, one may be more inclined to think about success in more subjective terms and without the use of proxies. Am I happy, satisfied with the connections I have made to others, am I a good parent, son/daughter, friend, colleague and dozens more questions of this kind that one finds more relevant in life.

I would suggest an idea, maybe re-considering success with some of those alternative criteria. I am not saying one is right and the others are wrong, but my personal bias is a little bit more in favor of the more subjective criteria.

The mice statement sounds right, but not transferable to contemporary humans, I think. The level of control humans have reached over their environment (without the accompanying wisdom, unfortunately) allows us to subvert the evolutionary processes to wonderful results. Mice with not enough anxiety may perish because cats will eat them with more ease. People with low levels of anxiety will do fine and even better than others in certain ways. So, I would render unto mice the things that belong to mice and unto humans the things that belong to humans. ;)

As for your congratulations at the end, I am afraid I do not deserve them. :) I experience anxiety at times and I do not always take the flight. One thing I try to do though is the following: When I do not take the flight, I am not disappointed in myself, I do not see it as a defeat. The anxiety I feel is a part of me. And I think this is related to the definition of success issue above: do not worry too much about the test results, the salary figures and the number of missed flights. Focus on inner peace attained, people made happy and the flights that were taken.

I hope this does not sound like a lecture. I was very intrigued by your post and enjoyed it a lot. I was struck by the kindness of your words. So, I tried to be helpful and included some suggestions even though you did not ask for any.

Rgds,
 
BuildingMyBento
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Re: What Would You Do? Flight Over Iranian Airspace Tomorrow

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:07 am

I wish I were on a flight solely over Iranian airspace; that country looks brilliant.

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