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DLHAM
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Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 pm

Hey everyone, I am searching for the busiest unserved routes between Europe and the US. I have all the passenger numbers from Germany, but In cannot find any numbers from the US to see the indirect traffic to Cities other than German ones. Maybe someone knows about a list somewhere on the Internet where you can see those routes? Or where I can find numbers. I found some stuff on anna.aero/the route shop but I only find very few numbers unfortunately.
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Clackers
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:49 pm

ORD-ATH would be my guess.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:53 pm

Clackers wrote:
ORD-ATH would be my guess.


AA already serves ORD-ATH.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:58 pm

Clackers wrote:
ORD-ATH would be my guess.


ORD-ATH is served by AA seasonally and outside of peak season, I would hardly call this a busy route. US-Greece is highly seasonal. Traffic falls off a cliff beyond end of September.
 
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JakubH
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:59 pm

DLHAM wrote:
Hey everyone, I am searching for the busiest unserved routes between Europe and the US. I have all the passenger numbers from Germany, but In cannot find any numbers from the US to see the indirect traffic to Cities other than German ones. Maybe someone knows about a list somewhere on the Internet where you can see those routes? Or where I can find numbers. I found some stuff on anna.aero/the route shop but I only find very few numbers unfortunately.


Data for Prague (PRG) are here: https://www.prg.aero/en/node/5156

Not sure how accurate they are, since there might be new supply-induced demand, but the top ones are:
LOS ANGELES 25,000 one-way pax
MIAMI 20,500
SAN FRANCISCO 17,000
BOSTON 15,000

I think LAX could work 4-times weekly for most of the year, especially if offered by AA with excellent West Coast links from LAX. I am thrilled about AA's expansion to PRG from both PHL and ORD next year.
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:00 pm

DLHAM wrote:
Hey everyone, I am searching for the busiest unserved routes between Europe and the US. I have all the passenger numbers from Germany, but In cannot find any numbers from the US to see the indirect traffic to Cities other than German ones. Maybe someone knows about a list somewhere on the Internet where you can see those routes? Or where I can find numbers. I found some stuff on anna.aero/the route shop but I only find very few numbers unfortunately.


A Moscow-US service would be high up my guesslist.
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DLHAM
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:06 pm

JakubH wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Hey everyone, I am searching for the busiest unserved routes between Europe and the US. I have all the passenger numbers from Germany, but In cannot find any numbers from the US to see the indirect traffic to Cities other than German ones. Maybe someone knows about a list somewhere on the Internet where you can see those routes? Or where I can find numbers. I found some stuff on anna.aero/the route shop but I only find very few numbers unfortunately.


Data for Prague (PRG) are here: https://www.prg.aero/en/node/5156

Not sure how accurate they are, since there might be new supply-induced demand, but the top ones are:
LOS ANGELES 25,000 one-way pax
MIAMI 20,500
SAN FRANCISCO 17,000
BOSTON 15,000

I think LAX could work 4-times weekly for most of the year, especially if offered by AA with excellent West Coast links from LAX. I am thrilled about AA's expansion to PRG from both PHL and ORD next year.


Wow thats interesting! Do you have any Data how much passengers flew on PHL/ORD-PRG before the AA flights started?
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voxkel
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:16 pm

MXP-BOS has to be up there. Along with MXP to LAX and IAH.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:54 pm

voxkel wrote:
MXP-BOS has to be up there. Along with MXP to LAX and IAH.


Top 5 From BOS unserved to Western Europe with PDEW are ATH (87) , MXP (73), VCE (55), BER (53), and ARN (47)
Top 5 From CHI are MXP (76) BER (56), MAN (51), GVA (37), ZAG (35)

NYC most likely has some unserved secondary/tertiary markets that are larger that these in PDEW.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:01 pm

DLHAM wrote:
JakubH wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Hey everyone, I am searching for the busiest unserved routes between Europe and the US. I have all the passenger numbers from Germany, but In cannot find any numbers from the US to see the indirect traffic to Cities other than German ones. Maybe someone knows about a list somewhere on the Internet where you can see those routes? Or where I can find numbers. I found some stuff on anna.aero/the route shop but I only find very few numbers unfortunately.


Data for Prague (PRG) are here: https://www.prg.aero/en/node/5156

Not sure how accurate they are, since there might be new supply-induced demand, but the top ones are:
LOS ANGELES 25,000 one-way pax
MIAMI 20,500
SAN FRANCISCO 17,000
BOSTON 15,000

I think LAX could work 4-times weekly for most of the year, especially if offered by AA with excellent West Coast links from LAX. I am thrilled about AA's expansion to PRG from both PHL and ORD next year.


Wow thats interesting! Do you have any Data how much passengers flew on PHL/ORD-PRG before the AA flights started?

ORD has not yet started. I recollect it was around 18,000 passengers one-way in 2017 - so not as high as others, but with great connection potential to the West Coast. I don't think PHL was up high - it's mostly just a better connection city for East Coast US travel than ATL used to be for DL.

Interestingly, Prague has a lot of long-haul potential given it's combination of business + leisure visitors - hoping for better connections to Tokyo, Hong Kong and Thailand too. The terminal and runway expansion cannot come soon enough.
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SueD
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:02 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
voxkel wrote:
MXP-BOS has to be up there. Along with MXP to LAX and IAH.


Top 5 From BOS unserved to Western Europe with PDEW are ATH (87) , MXP (73), VCE (55), BER (53), and ARN (47)
Top 5 From CHI are MXP (76) BER (56), MAN (51), GVA (37), ZAG (35)

NYC most likely has some unserved secondary/tertiary markets that are larger that these in PDEW.


Absolutely anywhere within a radius of 800 mile or say 1 ½ hours flying time of Heathrow struggles to compete on NYC especially in the back of the bus so to speak due to massive price dumping on the consolidators just to fill those seats for much of the year even if demand exists and I can assure you it does.
 
B747forever
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:05 pm

voxkel wrote:
MXP-BOS has to be up there. Along with MXP to LAX and IAH.


MXP-LAX is operated by Air Italy, though it is only a seasonal service.


I am sure ARN-LAX will be up there now that SAS will switch the route to CPH and Norwegian won't fly any long haul out of ARN. Though not sure what the PDEW, but pretty sure it is greater than CPH-LAX.
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DLHAM
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:13 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
voxkel wrote:
MXP-BOS has to be up there. Along with MXP to LAX and IAH.


Top 5 From BOS unserved to Western Europe with PDEW are ATH (87) , MXP (73), VCE (55), BER (53), and ARN (47)
Top 5 From CHI are MXP (76) BER (56), MAN (51), GVA (37), ZAG (35)

NYC most likely has some unserved secondary/tertiary markets that are larger that these in PDEW.


Thats interesting, HAM had more passengers to both BOS and ORD than BER and DUS in 2018, with DUS almost as much as HAM to ORD, so they should show up somehow.
Yeah pretty sure NYC has some higher Volume markets, NYC-HAM for example will be an estimated PDEW of 155 in 2019.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:48 pm

B747forever wrote:
I am sure ARN-LAX will be up there now that SAS will switch the route to CPH and Norwegian won't fly any long haul out of ARN. Though not sure what the PDEW, but pretty sure it is greater than CPH-LAX.


I wouldn't be too sure of that, Copenhagen is a bigger hub than Stockholm. Also as a city Copenhagen is larger than Stockholm and Danes are more willing to fly than Swedes. The Swedes suffer from flight shaming, environment issues and so on. This is less the case in Denmark.

The busiest unserved route is probably something like Madrid - Seattle.
 
leftcoast8
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:02 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
The busiest unserved route is probably something like Madrid - Seattle.


Besides tourism is there a lot of demand between the Puget Sound region and Spain?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:56 pm

MCO-LHR is technically the largest, although there is plenty of service from LGW-MCO
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MIflyer12
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:14 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
voxkel wrote:
MXP-BOS has to be up there. Along with MXP to LAX and IAH.


Top 5 From BOS unserved to Western Europe with PDEW are ATH (87) , MXP (73), VCE (55), BER (53), and ARN (47)


Data sources, anybody? :)

I, too, had BOS-MXP on the mind but think there has to be a lot of seasonality, like 5x weekly the week before Easter thru the end of October capturing 75% of the traffic.
 
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:21 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
voxkel wrote:
MXP-BOS has to be up there. Along with MXP to LAX and IAH.


Top 5 From BOS unserved to Western Europe with PDEW are ATH (87) , MXP (73), VCE (55), BER (53), and ARN (47)


Data sources, anybody? :)

I, too, had BOS-MXP on the mind but think there has to be a lot of seasonality, like 5x weekly the week before Easter thru the end of October capturing 75% of the traffic.


https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f ... 564d1b.pdf Has top 25 CHI and BOS: O+D, Market share, and in-depth look at GVA from both cities.

Also concerning HAM BER DUS - I wonder if the source data I posted includes both SXF and TXL for BER.
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2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
mdavies06
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:11 am

Probably a route ex LON or NYC. How about LON-STL?

Some data inside this thread when we discussed BA PDX-LHR a few weeks ago: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437021
 
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:38 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
B747forever wrote:
I am sure ARN-LAX will be up there now that SAS will switch the route to CPH and Norwegian won't fly any long haul out of ARN. Though not sure what the PDEW, but pretty sure it is greater than CPH-LAX.


I wouldn't be too sure of that, Copenhagen is a bigger hub than Stockholm. Also as a city Copenhagen is larger than Stockholm and Danes are more willing to fly than Swedes. The Swedes suffer from flight shaming, environment issues and so on. This is less the case in Denmark.

The busiest unserved route is probably something like Madrid - Seattle.



It is hard to back up my statement without the exact numbers, but I believe that the PDEW (O&D) between ARN-LAX is greater than CPH-LAX, which probably was one of the reasons why SAS initially started the LAX route from ARN rather than CPH. However, with the larger and more developed hub at CPH I am sure that total traffic (O&D and connecting) is greater at CPH vs ARN, and with the other factors you mention makes more sense to move the route to CPH.
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:55 am

B747forever wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
B747forever wrote:
I am sure ARN-LAX will be up there now that SAS will switch the route to CPH and Norwegian won't fly any long haul out of ARN. Though not sure what the PDEW, but pretty sure it is greater than CPH-LAX.


I wouldn't be too sure of that, Copenhagen is a bigger hub than Stockholm. Also as a city Copenhagen is larger than Stockholm and Danes are more willing to fly than Swedes. The Swedes suffer from flight shaming, environment issues and so on. This is less the case in Denmark.

The busiest unserved route is probably something like Madrid - Seattle.



It is hard to back up my statement without the exact numbers, but I believe that the PDEW (O&D) between ARN-LAX is greater than CPH-LAX, which probably was one of the reasons why SAS initially started the LAX route from ARN rather than CPH. However, with the larger and more developed hub at CPH I am sure that total traffic (O&D and connecting) is greater at CPH vs ARN, and with the other factors you mention makes more sense to move the route to CPH.


I was told that SAS moved the route because more passengers originated from Denmark Than from Sweden and then it was easier to transfer in CPH than ARN
 
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:23 am

JakubH wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Hey everyone, I am searching for the busiest unserved routes between Europe and the US. I have all the passenger numbers from Germany, but In cannot find any numbers from the US to see the indirect traffic to Cities other than German ones. Maybe someone knows about a list somewhere on the Internet where you can see those routes? Or where I can find numbers. I found some stuff on anna.aero/the route shop but I only find very few numbers unfortunately.


Data for Prague (PRG) are here: https://www.prg.aero/en/node/5156

Not sure how accurate they are, since there might be new supply-induced demand, but the top ones are:
LOS ANGELES 25,000 one-way pax
MIAMI 20,500
SAN FRANCISCO 17,000
BOSTON 15,000

I think LAX could work 4-times weekly for most of the year, especially if offered by AA with excellent West Coast links from LAX. I am thrilled about AA's expansion to PRG from both PHL and ORD next year.

I'm interested if DL might try a seasonal BOS-PRG route, as part of their push to make BOS a TATL hub. If they use BOS as a connecting hub and don't solely rely on O/D traffic, they might be able to make the market work.
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DLHAM
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:44 am

Well ive started a small list, though the passenger numbers are from different years, a lot from 2018, some from 2017 and 2016 and one from 2019. Hard to find numbers. German relations dominate the list a bit because I know where to acess the numbers from Germany (German Federal Office of statistics).

Out of all the routes I read here and could find numbers for HAM-NYC is the largest offline EU-US market so far, but I'm sure there are markets with more demand.

Unserved markets, passengers annually ONE-WAY, Passengers daily EACH WAY

Unserved markets

Route Pax OW PDEW Possible Airlines

NYC-HAM 56.520 154,8 DL UA EK B6 EW
ORD-ATH 55.500 152,1 flown AA
MCO-LHR 46.000 126,0 VS BA
DEN-AMS 40.000 109,6 KL UA
MSY-LON 31.828 87,2 flown BA
DEN-FCO 31.000 84,9 UA AZ DY
DUS-LAX 25.812 70,7 EW DY
LAX-PRG 25.000 68,5 AA?
HAM-MIA 22.058 60,4 EW
HAM-SFO 17.241 47,2 EW
BER-SFO 20.578 56,4 EW
MIA-PRG 20.500 56,2 AA
HAM-LAX 18.375 50,3 EW DY
BER-LAX 17.134 46,9 EW DY
DUS-SFO 17.135 46,9 EW DY
ORD-HAM 15.289 41,9 AA UA
ORD-DUS 15.176 41,6 AA UA
MXP-BOS DL
MXP-LAX DL AA AZ


adamh8297 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:

Top 5 From BOS unserved to Western Europe with PDEW are ATH (87) , MXP (73), VCE (55), BER (53), and ARN (47)


Data sources, anybody? :)

I, too, had BOS-MXP on the mind but think there has to be a lot of seasonality, like 5x weekly the week before Easter thru the end of October capturing 75% of the traffic.


https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/859c15_f ... 564d1b.pdf Has top 25 CHI and BOS: O+D, Market share, and in-depth look at GVA from both cities.

Also concerning HAM BER DUS - I wonder if the source data I posted includes both SXF and TXL for BER.


My numbers are Berlin altogether, including SXF, which has close to no traffic to the US.

2018:

BOS
BER 9.687 26,8
DUS 9.774 26,4
HAM 10.495 28,8

ORD
BER 11.452 31,4
DUS 15.176 41,6
HAM 15.289 41,9

Oneway, PDEW
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Clackers
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:07 am

LAS-BUD?
 
artflyer
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:05 pm

WAW-BKK 76.000
WAW-HAN 52.000
WAW-PVG 33.000
WAW-HKG 29.000

All one way 2018.

https://www.lotnisko-chopina.pl/en/airp ... tml#tab116

Edit: sorry, only now I realised we are talking Europe-US.
 
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JakubH
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:45 am

NickolayAv wrote:
JakubH wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Hey everyone, I am searching for the busiest unserved routes between Europe and the US. I have all the passenger numbers from Germany, but In cannot find any numbers from the US to see the indirect traffic to Cities other than German ones. Maybe someone knows about a list somewhere on the Internet where you can see those routes? Or where I can find numbers. I found some stuff on anna.aero/the route shop but I only find very few numbers unfortunately.


Data for Prague (PRG) are here: https://www.prg.aero/en/node/5156

Not sure how accurate they are, since there might be new supply-induced demand, but the top ones are:
LOS ANGELES 25,000 one-way pax
MIAMI 20,500
SAN FRANCISCO 17,000
BOSTON 15,000

I think LAX could work 4-times weekly for most of the year, especially if offered by AA with excellent West Coast links from LAX. I am thrilled about AA's expansion to PRG from both PHL and ORD next year.

I'm interested if DL might try a seasonal BOS-PRG route, as part of their push to make BOS a TATL hub. If they use BOS as a connecting hub and don't solely rely on O/D traffic, they might be able to make the market work.

Yes, I think both AA and UA will be looking at different city pairs like BOS-PRG with the arrival of their new 321XLR, and DL may too if it has the right equipment. ATL was not very convenient for connections to PRG and BOS may be a logical complement to DL's JFK-PRG seasonal route.

I also think that smaller, more economical aircraft will enable year-round connections, which seems to be the major weakness of the Czech capital, forcing many frequent flyers to stick to LHR, MUC, FRA, AMS and CDG for TATL connections. Fingers crossed that ORD, PHL, EWR and JFK do well this year, and we might see more additions in the future.
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Rossiya747
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:40 am

FlyRow wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
Hey everyone, I am searching for the busiest unserved routes between Europe and the US. I have all the passenger numbers from Germany, but In cannot find any numbers from the US to see the indirect traffic to Cities other than German ones. Maybe someone knows about a list somewhere on the Internet where you can see those routes? Or where I can find numbers. I found some stuff on anna.aero/the route shop but I only find very few numbers unfortunately.


A Moscow-US service would be high up my guesslist.


Its pretty well served albeit only with Aeroflot. They fly to LAX, JFK, and MIA IIRC. Sometimes they will to 3x daily to JFK but its still kind of expensive.

In other news, LED is now allow to have fifth-freedom flights so maybe UA, AA, or DL could fly there and then to India or Central Asia. Would be interesting.
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:51 am

Clackers wrote:
LAS-BUD?

that one I really do not think so. Rather LAX-BUD.
 
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:24 pm

JFK/EWR-LED
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:22 pm

This is what I found so far ... Any more ideas and numbers welcome!

The routes written in italic have launched as a Nonstop flight recently or are announced. The ones with the small Star in front contain a City which has no service to Europe / the US at all.

Image
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:19 pm

DLHAM wrote:
This is what I found so far ... Any more ideas and numbers welcome!

The routes written in italic have launched as a Nonstop flight recently or are announced. The ones with the small Star in front contain a City which has no service to Europe / the US at all.


Denver - Rome can be set in italics, Norwegian has announced it and will start March 31st.

And as others have mentioned, Orlando - London Heathrow might be unserved but Orlando - London Gatwick certainly isn't. Bit strange that you pick LHR for this one and LON for all the other London routes.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:12 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
And as others have mentioned, Orlando - London Heathrow might be unserved but Orlando - London Gatwick certainly isn't. Bit strange that you pick LHR for this one and LON for all the other London routes.


Thanks for the Info!

I did so because there is no service from the whole London area to places like STL -- but Heathrow - Orlando has no flight while Gatwick does but still such a high passenger volume. I mean, still number two on this list. This shows pretty good - I think - that Heathrow and Gatwick partly serve different markets/catchments. But basically youre right, LHR-MCO should not be there, but then also the recently launched routes should not be there.
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B747forever
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Re: Busiest unserved routes between the US and Europe

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:21 pm

So Swedavia, which is the government owned main airport operator in Sweden posted their annual destination statistics.

https://www.swedavia.se/globalassets/st ... _2019.xlsx (excel file, thanks to QuawerAir for providing the link!)

In 2019 ARN-LAX/LAX-ARN had a total of 172,468 passengers which translates to a PDEW of 236.

Still trying to find the PDEW for CPH-LAX.
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Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos