UA857
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Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:50 am

How come Kai Tak was closed when CLK was open? I mean Kai Tak could function as a regional airport and CLK function as a international airport. Why did HK demolish Kai Tak After CLK was opened? Any Thoughts?
 
jomur
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:56 am

HK probably had better use of the land and it was rather dodgy to fly into with all those tall buildings around it.
 
tootallsd
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:02 am

Kai Tak was sort of like having an airport on Central Park in NYC.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:04 am

Two airports aren't necessarily better than one. Chances are high the airspaces would collide. The international flights would benefit from the regional feed and vice versa. HKG is well connected via road and rail.
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blandy62
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:07 am

One reason is probably that if the airport is still there, I would be impossible to build any high rise buildings in Kowloon
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:16 am

UA857 wrote:
How come Kai Tak was closed when CLK was open? I mean Kai Tak could function as a regional airport and CLK function as a international airport. Why did HK demolish Kai Tak After CLK was opened? Any Thoughts?


Aside from the value of the land, unnecessary hazard of the approach, and a runway surrounded by water, there is just no call in this era to have aircraft buzzing over the top of some of the densesest population in the world. Eventually something bad would happen, and a whole lot of people on the ground are gonna die. Airports are best located with lots of empty surrounding space whenever possible.

God, I miss Kai Tak.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:17 am

The checkerboard hill approach would definitely interfere with the modern CLK approach (assuming CLK in it's current form came to fruition). Plus Kai Tak was totally out of ramp space and Chek Lap Kok is just massive compared to KT.
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DocLightning
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:26 am

Kai Tak was a horrible airport that was built in the only place it could be. Fans loved it because of the dramatic approach, but the approach was risky (more than a few engine/tip strikes) and limited local development. Moreover, Kai Tak had a strict curfew. It was out of ramp space and the terminal was old and dilapidated. It is much more useful as valuable waterfront property.
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UA857
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:36 am

Couldn't they turn Kai Tak into a turboprop/general aviation airport like Subang Airport in Kuala Lumpur?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:59 am

UA857 wrote:
Couldn't they turn Kai Tak into a turboprop/general aviation airport like Subang Airport in Kuala Lumpur?

Why do you need that? Most helo flyings are moved to CLK anyway and most GA flights are moved to Shek Kong even before Kai Tak closed.

Besides Kai Tak is also in an area where turbulence is at its worst in the Greater Hong Kong area - CLK isnt much better but is better than Kai Tak. Do you seriously want to fly a GA into Kai Tak through the turbulence that it had?

Michael
Last edited by eamondzhang on Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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fraspotter
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:01 am

UA857 wrote:
Couldn't they turn Kai Tak into a turboprop/general aviation airport like Subang Airport in Kuala Lumpur?


It's one thing to hamper building development when Kai Tak was the only option for aviation in HK however if Kai Tak were to be limited to GA those building limitations would still exist. Except this time it would to appease a bunch of rich main landers who just want another place to park their private jets.
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eamondzhang
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:02 am

fraspotter wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Couldn't they turn Kai Tak into a turboprop/general aviation airport like Subang Airport in Kuala Lumpur?


It's one thing to hamper building development when Kai Tak was the only option for aviation in HK however if Kai Tak were to be limited to GA those building limitations would still exist. Except this time it would to appease a bunch of rich main landers who just want another place to park their private jets.

Get your facts right and stop these political nonsense. Tell me how many private jets are carrying the B- national code and how many more are registered to "rich mainlanders"? And how many of them are parked at CLK currently?

Michael
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:40 am

Funnily enough, Kai Tak did temporarily reopen for a very short time after Chek Lap Kok took over; due to cargo freezers failing at the latter, with no real diagnosis as to why or how to fix it, for several days.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Airstud
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:21 am

[Chances are high the airspaces would collide.[/quote]

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mmo
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:29 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Kai Tak was a horrible airport that was built in the only place it could be. Fans loved it because of the dramatic approach, but the approach was risky (more than a few engine/tip strikes) and limited local development. Moreover, Kai Tak had a strict curfew. It was out of ramp space and the terminal was old and dilapidated. It is much more useful as valuable waterfront property.



As a Pilot who flew in there numerous times, I thought Kai Tak was a great airport to fly into/out of on a regular basis. It was challenging, the ATC was fantastic and if you did the procedures as printed you had no problems. But, with that said, it's time had come and gone. It had to be replaced. Can't say I am a fan of the new location and the wind shear which seems to be routine.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:18 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Funnily enough, Kai Tak did temporarily reopen for a very short time after Chek Lap Kok took over; due to cargo freezers failing at the latter, with no real diagnosis as to why or how to fix it, for several days.


The airfield was not reopen, though, only the cargo terminals. I do remember CLK and the problems in the earliest days, though.

As for the OP's question - there's absolutely no reason to keep Kai Tak open, period. They just build a spanking new, state of the art airport with plenty of capacity (back in 1998). Kai Tak was hampering development in many parts of Kowloon, has a fairly dangerous approach, and it's a prime piece of land in the middle of a city that will never have enough lands (although the Kai Tak development was pushed back for almost a decade, and even now, remain relatively undeveloped with only the edge of the old airport having some buildings).

Oh, and "regional" flight? Good luck finding a narrowbody in HK back in 1998 (There are those Dragonair flights on A320, but that's about it...)
 
jetwet1
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:53 am

I can understand the reasoning that the area was prime for redevelopment, however, looking at Google Earth, there does not appear to be much redevelopment being done.

It's been a while since I was actually in the area, except to transfer on CX which doesn't really count. Are there solid plans or is Google way out of date ?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:50 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Good luck finding a narrowbody in HK back in 1998 (There are those Dragonair flights on A320, but that's about it...)

There were actually quite a few airlines flying narrowbodies into Kai Tak in 1998:
CI, CJ, CZ, SZ, GE, VN, and of course KA all flew in narrowbodies right 'til (and on) the last day; and there were way more throughout the early '90s.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:59 am

jetwet1 wrote:
I can understand the reasoning that the area was prime for redevelopment, however, looking at Google Earth, there does not appear to be much redevelopment being done.

It's been a while since I was actually in the area, except to transfer on CX which doesn't really count. Are there solid plans or is Google way out of date ?


Development is painfully slow and for the most part, only the area near the former Concorde Road on the northern/northeastern perimeter of the airport is now developed.

There is also the Cruise Terminal at the end of the former runway.

That's about it, though. They spent years arguing what and how the land will be developed, change the plan multiple times. In another word, typical HK govt and their bureaucracy.
 
seat64k
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:36 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
I can understand the reasoning that the area was prime for redevelopment, however, looking at Google Earth, there does not appear to be much redevelopment being done.

It's been a while since I was actually in the area, except to transfer on CX which doesn't really count. Are there solid plans or is Google way out of date ?


Probably a bit of both. Things take time, and government is in control of the land. But new developments are slowly becoming available.

LAX772LR wrote:
There were actually quite a few airlines flying narrowbodies into Kai Tak in 1998:
CI, CJ, CZ, SZ, GE, VN, and of course KA all flew in narrowbodies right 'til (and on) the last day; and there were way more throughout the early '90s.


They all still do. Most of the airlines in the region sends narrowbodies, with the notable exception (as far as I know) of SQ. But most also send widebodies. Regional ops in HKG is very heavily skewed to wide-bodies.
 
B-HOP
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:27 pm

The flightpath into 13 would interfere with approaches to 25 or take off from 07 so that is a no no, GA, almost non-existent, was moved to Shek Kong.
There was one very serious effort in resuscitate Kai Tak in 2005/2006 when current plans were drawn up, it is for 800m runway similar to Meigs Field

https://www.pland.gov.hk/pland_en/p_stu ... bForum.pdf

The Asian financial crisis means the land use plans was changed multiple times, it was planned to be a concrete jungle, it still is, but at a more reasonable density

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flyingclrs727
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Re: Why didn't Hong Kong Keep Kai Tak open?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:08 am

jomur wrote:
HK probably had better use of the land and it was rather dodgy to fly into with all those tall buildings around it.


It's not just the land occupied by the old airport. It's also the air rights above the flight paths into Kai Tak. The flight paths limited how high buildings could be built. Closing Kai Tak made lots of real estate more valuable overnight.

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