Om2
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Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:20 am

With all of the current airlines startups in the USA, would there be room for another major airline?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:29 am

Breeze Airways?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:37 am

Yes we desperately need the competition. We lost half of the legacy carriers over the last decade.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:46 am

Om2 wrote:
With all of the current airlines startups in the USA, would there be room for another major airline?


Why? There are already plenty of airlines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_ ... _companies


Unfortunately these airlines just do not have the brand strength to market, promote, and economically succeed using their own intellectual property, styling, and stand alone fleet when competing against the big boys.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
masseybrown
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:47 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
We lost half of the legacy carriers over the last decade.


Which turned out not to be a good thing at all
 
spdbrd007
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:56 am

If a US based company can run a ULCC without stuffing as many seats as possible in aircraft it could work.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:14 am

masseybrown wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
We lost half of the legacy carriers over the last decade.


Which turned out not to be a good thing at all


How so?
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:30 am

BNAMealer wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
We lost half of the legacy carriers over the last decade.


Which turned out not to be a good thing at all


How so?

Lack of threads about US airline bankruptcies in the last decade compared to the previous, perhaps?

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
VSMUT
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:30 am

spdbrd007 wrote:
If a US based company can run a ULCC without stuffing as many seats as possible in aircraft it could work.


That's a very contradictory statement. ULCCs need to squeeze as many seats in as possible.
 
CRJ5000
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:39 am

spdbrd007 wrote:
If a US based company can run a ULCC without stuffing as many seats as possible in aircraft it could work.


Hmm, a non-profit airline... Sounds interesting.
 
tphuang
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:44 am

BNAMealer wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
We lost half of the legacy carriers over the last decade.


Which turned out not to be a good thing at all


How so?

Less competition for one.
 
Delta777Jet
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:50 am

Yes ‘ the US needs another legacy carrier.

Powerful as Pan Am (back then)
Network like Emirates
Service level like Singapore Airlines

We can all dream :)
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
NonTechAvLover
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:57 am

CRJ5000 wrote:
spdbrd007 wrote:
If a US based company can run a ULCC without stuffing as many seats as possible in aircraft it could work.


Hmm, a non-profit airline... Sounds interesting.


Actually it does. Imagine financing provided by banks (debt only) and executives who love aviation running it. Non-profits can pay financing expenses and salaries. If you are not chasing profits, your ticket prices would be better than anyone else’s and you could “make a killing,” except it would not come in the form of money, but the simple satisfaction that you were doing a good job and a good thing (and, yes, maybe in the form of actually killing an airline or two in the process). Not quite what the Chicago School folks would recommend, but I like the idea.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:06 pm

tphuang wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
masseybrown wrote:

Which turned out not to be a good thing at all


How so?

Less competition for one.


Maybe, depending on how one looks at it. But no one can argue against the fact it stabilized the industry.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:08 pm

So you thinks banks would be benevolent overlords, do you? You couldn't sell equity/shares in a business that doesn't try to make a profit.

Maybe we should just try to convince employees they're doing God's work at poverty wages, like nuns teaching at K-12 Catholic schools?

The reality is that there are already ten (marketing) carriers in the U.S. with fleets of 90+ mainline jets. That's a big hurdle in investment and organization. There is competition on all major and the great majority of medium-volume city-pair routes. We might see another geographically-concentrated super-regional like Alaska or JetBlue but expecting a nationwide network with 300+ planes seems too much to ask.
 
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Polot
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:17 pm

NonTechAvLover wrote:
CRJ5000 wrote:
spdbrd007 wrote:
If a US based company can run a ULCC without stuffing as many seats as possible in aircraft it could work.


Hmm, a non-profit airline... Sounds interesting.


Actually it does. Imagine financing provided by banks (debt only) and executives who love aviation running it. Non-profits can pay financing expenses and salaries. If you are not chasing profits, your ticket prices would be better than anyone else’s and you could “make a killing,” except it would not come in the form of money, but the simple satisfaction that you were doing a good job and a good thing (and, yes, maybe in the form of actually killing an airline or two in the process). Not quite what the Chicago School folks would recommend, but I like the idea.

That is such a simplistic and idealized view of businesses, how they operate, and why they need money that I don’t even know where to begin in tearing that idea apart.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:30 pm

While more competition is always better, the barrier into entry in this business is astronomical. The airline business is the most regulated “de-regulated” business out there.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:33 pm

The US could use a Ryanair/Easyjet style carier which shakes up the market in direct competition with mainliners. Today I see few direct competition on same routes (only transcontinental) but many routes are operated by a sole carier to there hub.
Tickets are still very expensive compared to the EU.
I know you have Southwest/Allegiant but they rarely operate in direct competition. They could be the extra airline but the US needs a shake up after the consolidation of the last decade.
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
NonTechAvLover
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:34 pm

Polot wrote:
NonTechAvLover wrote:
CRJ5000 wrote:

Hmm, a non-profit airline... Sounds interesting.


Actually it does. Imagine financing provided by banks (debt only) and executives who love aviation running it. Non-profits can pay financing expenses and salaries. If you are not chasing profits, your ticket prices would be better than anyone else’s and you could “make a killing,” except it would not come in the form of money, but the simple satisfaction that you were doing a good job and a good thing (and, yes, maybe in the form of actually killing an airline or two in the process). Not quite what the Chicago School folks would recommend, but I like the idea.

That is such a simplistic and idealized view of businesses, how they operate, and why they need money that I don’t even know where to begin in tearing that idea apart.


If you want more intellectual joy, I would recommend first identifying your own assumptions about businesses, how they operate and etc. (and while you are at it, about human nature) and, if the first part is not too exhausting, questioning those assumptions. Trust me, it is much, much more interesting than tearing apart the ideas of others without having questioned your own assumptions first.

Just a long-winded way of one user recommending more openness towards “thought experiments.”

On a more specific note, I did not quite understand the part about “why businesses need money.” I acknowledged the need for financing and proposed a solution, though admittedly an impractical one). Did you maybe mean to say why businesses need profits? If that is the objection, it must be incomplete at some level since there is actually a thing called a non-profit organization and operates without needing profits.
 
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Polot
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:43 pm

NonTechAvLover wrote:
Polot wrote:
NonTechAvLover wrote:

Actually it does. Imagine financing provided by banks (debt only) and executives who love aviation running it. Non-profits can pay financing expenses and salaries. If you are not chasing profits, your ticket prices would be better than anyone else’s and you could “make a killing,” except it would not come in the form of money, but the simple satisfaction that you were doing a good job and a good thing (and, yes, maybe in the form of actually killing an airline or two in the process). Not quite what the Chicago School folks would recommend, but I like the idea.

That is such a simplistic and idealized view of businesses, how they operate, and why they need money that I don’t even know where to begin in tearing that idea apart.


If you want more intellectual joy, I would recommend first identifying your own assumptions about businesses, how they operate and etc. (and while you are at it, about human nature) and, if the first part is not too exhausting, questioning those assumptions. Trust me, it is much, much more interesting than tearing apart the ideas of others without having questioned your own assumptions first.

Just a long-winded way of one user recommending more openness towards “thought experiments.”

On a more specific note, I did not quite understand the part about “why businesses need money.” I acknowledged the need for financing and proposed a solution, though admittedly an impractical one). Did you maybe mean to say why businesses need profits? If that is the objection, it must be incomplete at some level since there is actually a thing called a non-profit organization and operates without needing profits.

Businesses need profits to grow. Non-profits are typically charitable organizations that are relying on donations, fundraising and volunteerism to grow in order to get more money and expand their mission, not on incredibly expensive assets such as planes. They are also tax exempt. Good luck getting tax exempt status with an airline.

One of the assumptions you are making is that every ticket an airline sells has profit built into it, and thus a “nonprofit” airline would be cheaper.
 
NonTechAvLover
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:44 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
So you thinks banks would be benevolent overlords, do you? You couldn't sell equity/shares in a business that doesn't try to make a profit.

Maybe we should just try to convince employees they're doing God's work at poverty wages, like nuns teaching at K-12 Catholic schools?


I thought banks were in the business of lending money for interest. I have a mortgage and pay interest to the bank, never thought this made them benevolent overlords. They make money that way. And please read my post again, I said debt financing, i. e., there is no equity.

There are many non-profit businesses which do not include any nuns working for $12K, though I am aware of some airlines trying to bring their flight attendants’ pay to that level.

Once again, a thought experiment and assume for once second you could convince the banks to lend to a business that did not have equity at “normal” interest rates.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:52 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

How so?

Less competition for one.


Maybe, depending on how one looks at it. But no one can argue against the fact it stabilized the industry.


From the passenger's point of view, it was a disaster. Wall Street happy; employees happy; management happpy; customers crowded and complaining.
 
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LotsaRunway
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:17 pm

With year over year large profits, the industry has room for, and needs, more competition. The problem is getting past the mega-carriers, who suddenly get competitive when crossing their path.
 
cschleic
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:49 pm

FlyRow wrote:
The US could use a Ryanair/Easyjet style carier which shakes up the market in direct competition with mainliners. Today I see few direct competition on same routes (only transcontinental) but many routes are operated by a sole carier to there hub.
Tickets are still very expensive compared to the EU.
I know you have Southwest/Allegiant but they rarely operate in direct competition. They could be the extra airline but the US needs a shake up after the consolidation of the last decade.


The U.S. does...they're called Spirit and Frontier. Allegiant is a travel company that includes an airline; not a direct comparison with the others.

WeatherPilot wrote:
While more competition is always better, the barrier into entry in this business is astronomical. The airline business is the most regulated “de-regulated” business out there.


It's more a matter of barriers to entry and competition. Capital costs are astronomical, margins are razor thin, customer demand is seasonal and fluctuates and is extremely price sensitive vs. significant fixed operating costs, the major equipment suppliers are a duopoly, one of their largest expenses is a commodity with costs that are totally outside of their control, and entrenched and large competitors have the resources to be brutally competitive. What's not to like?
 
kabq737
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:58 pm

NonTechAvLover wrote:
CRJ5000 wrote:
spdbrd007 wrote:
If a US based company can run a ULCC without stuffing as many seats as possible in aircraft it could work.


Hmm, a non-profit airline... Sounds interesting.


Actually it does. Imagine financing provided by banks (debt only) and executives who love aviation running it. Non-profits can pay financing expenses and salaries. If you are not chasing profits, your ticket prices would be better than anyone else’s and you could “make a killing,” except it would not come in the form of money, but the simple satisfaction that you were doing a good job and a good thing (and, yes, maybe in the form of actually killing an airline or two in the process). Not quite what the Chicago School folks would recommend, but I like the idea.


While they are in it to make a profit I can tell you as someone who worked in the aviation business with multiple small airlines who were run by people who love aviation they’re part of the problem. I can’t give any carrier names on the public forum but I know management of 3 carriers who went under and the common theme is “aviation guys”.

Throughout Aviation there are far too many people who love the industry and think they can run a business in it when in reality they only understand the flying side but nothing else. It’s a recipe that unfortunately doesn’t work. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like having bean counters manage every aspect of an operation. I don’t think it’s healthy either. A team of executives who simply love aviation would also be unhealthy. You need a balanced team with a completely diverse skill set to run an airline properly.
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:02 pm

There's certainly room for a new entrant.

That being said, I'd argue the US airline industry and pax have benefited from much of the consolidation. Average airfare has decreased almost 33% since 1990 (adj for inflation), and most of that started in the 2000s (read: mergers and BKs). There are a lot of flights (mostly transcons) that are flown now that would never have worked in the old model (overflying a dozen or more hubs). Airlines trimmed the fat both through bankruptcies and right sizing their hubs/fleet. Both pax and the airlines have benefited from that.

Really the only people who have lost are the ones who worked at, and/or flew to/from one of the shuttered hubs. Even in those cases, there has been a resurgence from other carriers and airfare generally ends up being much lower than it was during the hub captive days. As an RDU flyer, I can say we're far better off than we were in the AA hub days. Traffic last year was almost 50% higher than in the busiest year of AA's RDU hub.

Non-profit airlines... I lollered hard at that one. Just when I thought I'd seen it all. Call it Unicorn airlines.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:02 pm

masseybrown wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Less competition for one.


Maybe, depending on how one looks at it. But no one can argue against the fact it stabilized the industry.


From the passenger's point of view, it was a disaster. Wall Street happy; employees happy; management happpy; customers crowded and complaining.


Again, how so? Are you sure your not just saying this because your hurt by UA dehubbing CLE?
 
11C
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:20 pm

CRJ5000 wrote:
spdbrd007 wrote:
If a US based company can run a ULCC without stuffing as many seats as possible in aircraft it could work.


Hmm, a non-profit airline... Sounds interesting.


That’s been done many times before. Labor ended up financing it with their pensions.
 
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F737NG
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:21 pm

"Is there room for another airline in the USA, currently?"

Yes, *IF* the levels of profits being earned by the incumbents are maintained for another year or two, then we'll see someone with some serious backing attempt to muscle-in and get a share of the current good times. The next JetBlue or Allegiant will appear.

However, don't forget that as much as US passengers are unhappy with things as they stand, the airline industry is hugely cyclical and overall tends to make very little overall profit in the long-run.

We'll see a spate of Ch.11 bankruptcies again soon enough and a return to 'passenger-friendly' fares and load factors that people here are yearning for.


NonTechAvLover wrote:
Actually it does. Imagine financing provided by banks (debt only) and executives who love aviation running it. Non-profits can pay financing expenses and salaries. If you are not chasing profits, your ticket prices would be better than anyone else’s and you could “make a killing,” except it would not come in the form of money, but the simple satisfaction that you were doing a good job and a good thing (and, yes, maybe in the form of actually killing an airline or two in the process). Not quite what the Chicago School folks would recommend, but I like the idea.


Quick question: What happens when a company is loaded with debt?
Its interest rate is increased by lenders to price-in the extra risk that the company may become insolvent and fail to make its loan repayments. Especially when there is no reserve built-up (profits) to act as buffer for whenever this incredible airline makes losses - any recession in the economy will do that.

At some point, with all this debt and associated higher interest rates, it becomes cheaper to just to issue equity. Equity has the benefit of allowing a company to vary the dvidend level depending on prior-year performance - debt does not.
Many profitable companies fold because of an inability to raise sufficient liquidity as the debt payments fall due.

So this 'no equity and no profits' does not lead to cheaper tickets. The debt servicing will wipe out any perceived ability to undercut the competition's prices.
 
DesertAir
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:22 pm

I think there is room in the USA for new airlines that connect small communities to large airports with reliable, frequent and reasonable cost service. Such an airline could be composted of retired airline workers who still want to participate in the industry. Everyone from the CEO to the baggage handler would make minimum wage plus 10% or the like. This type of airline could be registered as non-profit public corporations depending on the state.
 
Calledonian
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:24 pm

[*]
Delta777Jet wrote:
Yes ‘ the US needs another legacy carrier.

Powerful as Pan Am (back then)
Network like Emirates
Service level like Singapore Airlines

We can all dream :)

Half of this forum would argue that already exists, and is called Delta Air Lines :wink2:
 
dstblj52
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:31 pm

DesertAir wrote:
I think there is room in the USA for new airlines that connect small communities to large airports with reliable, frequent and reasonable cost service. Such an airline could be composted of retired airline workers who still want to participate in the industry. Everyone from the CEO to the baggage handler would make minimum wage plus 10% or the like. This type of airline could be registered as non-profit public corporations depending on the state.

Your describing southern in terms of pay but the allegiant model seems to be the best for serving small communities at low costs
 
snasteve
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:54 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes we desperately need the competition. We lost half of the legacy carriers over the last decade.


They keep allowing them to merge. Perhaps they should relax some of the foreign ownership rules?
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:02 pm

WeatherPilot wrote:
While more competition is always better, the barrier into entry in this business is astronomical. The airline business is the most regulated “de-regulated” business out there.

The first sentence in your post is spot on. It is obscenely expensive and difficult to get all the regulatory approvals to launch a new carrier in the US. I'd like to nitpick your other sentence as I would say that the trucking industry in the US may be the most regulated "deregulated" industry. It's probably a virtual tie in all reality, but every week, there is a new regulation going into effect in trucking. Too bad that there are practically zero barriers to starting a new trucking company as there are in a new airline.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:13 pm

snasteve wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes we desperately need the competition. We lost half of the legacy carriers over the last decade.


They keep allowing them to merge. Perhaps they should relax some of the foreign ownership rules?

Why? Most of the global carriers are becoming more like US carriers as time goes on. Emirates is slowly starting to shift its strategy. Cathay is shifting its strategy. Etihad has completely gutted its strategy. Sure, Emirates and Singapore still have first class on a large portion of their fleets and some of the global carriers out there give a ridiculous portion of food that gets wasted, but the US carriers are good at what they do, and many of these foreign companies don't have the slightest idea of how to operate a US domestic network.

BTW, look at all of the mergers and failures in Europe. Not too much different than the 2000s in the US market.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
snasteve
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:18 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
WeatherPilot wrote:
While more competition is always better, the barrier into entry in this business is astronomical. The airline business is the most regulated “de-regulated” business out there.

The first sentence in your post is spot on. It is obscenely expensive and difficult to get all the regulatory approvals to launch a new carrier in the US. I'd like to nitpick your other sentence as I would say that the trucking industry in the US may be the most regulated "deregulated" industry. It's probably a virtual tie in all reality, but every week, there is a new regulation going into effect in trucking. Too bad that there are practically zero barriers to starting a new trucking company as there are in a new airline.


When I worked in the financial industry. It was always the larger firms that caused most of the problems in the industry. They dealt with it how they dealt with everything they just paid the fine. And with each incident would come a new layer of regulation intended to prevent it. Which I don’t necessarily oppose, but the pattern is clear. The largest firms could always afford any fines and compliance costs. In the long run this makes them more profitable because it shrinks the market ensuring that only the largest firms survive. And the barrier to entry remains too high for anyone else trying to come in.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:35 pm

Yes, the more competition, the better! However, any new airline has to have a solid business plan, and needs to start as much as possible in nonsaturated markets. Breeze/Moxie seems to be trying to go in this direction, and I wish them good luck. Above all else, don't pull a Western Pacific and try to compete with the like of United at Denver International - you'll lose. Build up slowly but surely, operate from outlying airports like LUV started out doing, and there's certainly a market for the right routes and prices.

Oh, and painting a 737 up in Simpsons colors wouldn't hurt, either! That was actually a brilliant marketing move on Western Pacific's part, something that more smallish airlines should consider to raise their visibility and bring in a few more shekels.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:55 pm

cschleic wrote:
FlyRow wrote:
The US could use a Ryanair/Easyjet style carier which shakes up the market in direct competition with mainliners. Today I see few direct competition on same routes (only transcontinental) but many routes are operated by a sole carier to there hub.
Tickets are still very expensive compared to the EU.
I know you have Southwest/Allegiant but they rarely operate in direct competition. They could be the extra airline but the US needs a shake up after the consolidation of the last decade.


The U.S. does...they're called Spirit and Frontier. Allegiant is a travel company that includes an airline; not a direct comparison with the others.



Spirit and Frontier don't really go direct competition like Easyjet/Norwegian does do they? They fly the more secondary airports I believe and not in the frequency and main airport flying like you see in the EU. You are right btw, i mixed allegiant and spirit.
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
snasteve
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:58 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
snasteve wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes we desperately need the competition. We lost half of the legacy carriers over the last decade.


They keep allowing them to merge. Perhaps they should relax some of the foreign ownership rules?

Why? Most of the global carriers are becoming more like US carriers as time goes on. Emirates is slowly starting to shift its strategy. Cathay is shifting its strategy. Etihad has completely gutted its strategy. Sure, Emirates and Singapore still have first class on a large portion of their fleets and some of the global carriers out there give a ridiculous portion of food that gets wasted, but the US carriers are good at what they do, and many of these foreign companies don't have the slightest idea of how to operate a US domestic network.

BTW, look at all of the mergers and failures in Europe. Not too much different than the 2000s in the US market.


Aviation is a hobby of mine I don’t profess to be an expert or have the answer. It was just a suggestion. However problems tend to go on in search of solutions. Eventually if enough of the public are fed up with it than it becomes political. And the last thing any industry wants is a politician who is not in their industry doesn’t know anything starts suggesting solutions. Especially if they become popular with the public. Of course it’s within the airlines own power to prevent it getting to such a situation? Will they do that?
 
MavyWavyATR
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Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:33 pm

I think honestly, there is room for another player in the US Airline industry. Although, the type of airline that is needed right now is a legacy type instead of another LCC or ULCC (that market is pretty much flooded now).
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 2142
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:35 am

Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:18 pm

spdbrd007 wrote:
If a US based company can run a ULCC without stuffing as many seats as possible in aircraft it could work.


If you remember, that was B6. Everyone had the same offering (except row 1 and emergency exits) for seat pitch, leather seats, TV, unlimited snacks and non alcoholic drinks. Fast forward 20 years and B6 now has Mint, Even More (economy+), fare packages, etc. Now the A320s are going back to their original 162 pax configuration, only now with Spaceflex and slimline seats. This is all based on what travelers want and what the airline needs to do to survive, and most of that is based on ticket price.

A pressurized aluminum can only has so much square footage (for pax, cubic footage for cargo) to make money. If you think that minimizing the amount of revenue per square foot is going to be hit on Wall Street, I wish you the best of luck, because it is those idiots that drove the airlines to do what they do today. "YAY, we made a healthy profit!" "You didn't hit our Target, change up or your stocks will drop to nothing."

So, unless an airline stays privately owned with no IPO in the USA, I cannot see this happening because the airline needs to maximize revenue per square foot based on what people are willing to pay for that length of a trip.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:52 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

Maybe, depending on how one looks at it. But no one can argue against the fact it stabilized the industry.


From the passenger's point of view, it was a disaster. Wall Street happy; employees happy; management happpy; customers crowded and complaining.


Again, how so? Are you sure your not just saying this because your hurt by UA dehubbing CLE?


Cleveland is interesting; but I live in Washington. I think customers are unhappy about increased seating density, uncomfortable seats themselves, high load factors on planes whose designers expected them to operate with lighter loads, difficulty rebooking (again because the planes are so full), and longer hub layover times. Most of these problems arose after last round of legacy mergers.
 
Charters737
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:59 am

Re: Is there room for another airline in the USA

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:00 am

Ishrion wrote:
Breeze Airways?
breeze has right idea.

Emb195 which apparently getting for nothing & a220 that have cost per seat same as much bigger aircraft which csn also fly some missions across the Atlantic.

Domestically choosing from 500 city psirs with no direct service & must be plenty of thin nonstops across over the Atlantic

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