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PacoMartin
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Posts: 827
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:29 pm

Will European airlines ever fly to Australia/New Zealand again? My guess is the answer is no. For the simple reason that it isn't worth investing in the ultra-long-range aircraft to get there nonstop. I imagine that BA will keep the flights from Singapore to Sydney simply because of history.


kilometers - Longest route flown by individual airline
15,345 Singapore Airlines SQ 21 Singapore to Newark
14,534 Qatar Airways QR 921 Auckland to Doha
14,500 Qantas QF 9 Perth to London
14,203 Emirates EK 449 Auckland to Dubai
13,834 United Airlines UA 101 Houston to Sydney
13,712 Philippine Airlines PR 126 Manila to New York-JFK
13,582 Delta Air Lines DL 201 Johannesburg to Atlanta
13,502 Etihad Airways EY 171 Abu Dhabi to Los Angeles
13,409 Saudia SV 41 Jeddah to Los Angeles
13,275 Air New Zealand NZ 27 Chicago–O'Hare to Auckland
13,184 Air Canada AC 37 Vancouver to Melbourne
13,122 Cathay Pacific CX 869 Hong Kong to Washington–Dulles
13,073 American Airlines AA 125 Dallas/Fort Worth to Hong Kong
12,917 Aeroméxico AM 97/99 Shanghai–Pudong to Mexico City
12,878 China Southern Airlines CZ 399 Guangzhou to New York–JFK
12,825 South African Airways SA 203 Johannesburg to New York–JFK
12,776 EVA Air BR 51 Houston–Intercontinental to Taipei–Taoyuan
12,748 Virgin Australia VA 24 Los Angeles to Melbourne
12,565 China Airlines CI 11 Taipei–Taoyuan to New York–JFK
12,529 Garuda Indonesia GA 87 Denpasar to London–Heathrow
12,505 Xiamen Airlines MF 850 Fuzhou to New York–JFK
12,341 Air India AI 174/184 San Francisco to Delhib
12,214 Hainan Airlines HU 415 Chongqing to New York–JFK
12,189 El Al LY 5 Tel Aviv–Ben Gurion to Los Angeles
12,157 Ethiopian Airlines ET 511 Chicago O'Hare to Addis Ababa
.
11,903 Alitalia AZ 688 Rome–Fiumicino to Santiago
11,897 China Eastern Airlines MU 588 New York–JFK to Shanghai–Pudong
11,830 Kenya Airways KQ 2 Nairobi–Jomo Kenyatta to New York-JFK
11,698 Air China CA 867 Beijing–Capital to Johannesburg
11,691 Pakistan International Airlines PK 783 Karachi to Toronto–Pearson
11,684 Hong Kong Airlines HX 69 Los Angeles to Hong Kong
11,652 Air France AF 406 Paris–Charles de Gaulle to Santiago
11,646 British Airways BA 251 London–Heathrow to Santiago
11,510 Korean Air KE 36 Atlanta to Seoul–Incheon
11,479 Lufthansa LH 510 Frankfurt to Buenos Aires–Ezeiza
11,437 KLM KL 701 Amsterdam–Schiphol to Buenos Aires–Ezeiza
11,415 Turkish Airlines TK 181 Istanbul to Mexico City
11,298 Edelweiss Air WK 90 Zürich to Buenos Aires - Ezeiza
11,279 All Nippon Airways NH 180 Tokyo–Narita to Mexico City
11,268 Royal Brunei Airlines BI 3 Bandar Seri Begawan to London Heathrow
11,151 Level LV 2605 Barcelona–El Prat to Santiago
11,136 Aerolíneas Argentinas AR 1141 Rome–Fiumicino to Buenos Aires–Ezeiza
11,120 Norwegian Air Shuttle DI 7505 London–Gatwick to Buenos Aires
11,114 Asiana Airlines OZ 221 New York–JFK to Seoul–Incheon
10,970 TAAG Angola Airlines DT 702 Luanda to Havana
10,887 Japan Airlines JL 6 Tokyo–Haneda to New York–JFK
10,794 Iberia IB 6801 Madrid to Tokyo–Narita
10,610 Malaysia Airlines MH 2/4 Kuala Lumpur–International to London–Heathrow
10,601 Sichuan Airlines 3U 8631 Hangzhou to Los Angeles
10,599 LATAM Chile LA 713 Tel-Aviv to São Paulo–Guarulhos
10,309 Swiss International Air Lines LX 179 Singapore to Zürich
10,223 Vietnam Airlines VN 51 Ho Chi Minh City to London–Heathrow
10,222 Kuwait Airways KU 117 Kuwait to New York–JFK
10,202 Uzbekistan Airways HY 101 Tashkent to New York–JFK
10,095 Royal Air Maroc AT 231 Beijing-Daxing to Casablanca
10,062 Air Europa UX 41 Madrid to Buenos Aires–Ezeiza
10,035 Royal Jordanian RJ 263 Amman–Queen Alia to Chicago–O'Hare
9,957 Condor DE 2358 Frankfurt to Kuala Lumpur
9,910 Scoot TR 734 Singapore to Berlin
9,877 Austrian Airlines OS 81 Vienna to Los Angeles
9,801 EgyptAir MS 3002 Tokyo–Narita to Luxor
9,781 Aeroflot SU 106 Moscow–Sheremetyevo to Los Angeles
9,775 LATAM Brasil JJ 8071 Frankfurt to São Paulo–Guarulhos
9,765 Air Mauritius MK 42/46 Mauritius to London–Heathrow
9,686 LOT Polish Airlines LO 21/23 Warsaw–Chopin to Los Angeles
9,647 Virgin Atlantic VS 207 Hong Kong to London–Heathrow
 
Ishrion
Posts: 1846
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:42 pm

 
RvA
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:43 pm

Did BA stop flying to SYD?
 
AstanaMagic
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:57 pm

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:46 pm

RvA wrote:
Did BA stop flying to SYD?


Nope, they are still flying to SYD, via SIN
2020: AGP, KSQ, LGW, LHR, MXP, TAS, ZRH
A/C: 32B, 32S, 752, 763, E90
A/L: BA, HY, LX, 2L
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5984
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:46 pm

BA flies LHR-SIN-SYD and you left off DFW-SYD from your list.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1645
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:54 pm

Maybe they will if they see that Qantas is making money on its non-stop flights. If Qantas can make money flying between Australia and Europe, why shouldn't other airlines? I think Turkish might be in a position to do this if it buys some kind of ULR plane. From Istanbul, you can reach any city in Europe without backtracking and they have both the frequency and the feed. Maybe for Lufthansa it would also be viable. I'd imagine BA might also want to provide nonstop flights.
 
Arion640
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Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:57 pm

Maybe not. The UK and Australia have strong cultural ties which will strengthen even more with brexit. Other european nations don’t have quite the same so with Emirates and Qatar around, there really isn’t enough non stop demand willing to pay a premium.
1973-2020
 
RvA
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:27 pm

AstanaMagic wrote:
RvA wrote:
Did BA stop flying to SYD?


Nope, they are still flying to SYD, via SIN


Indeed that was kind of my point to the OPs opening question. Bit of an odd one considering.

With good connections and partnerships in place not sure why any European carrier would be interested in the expense of sending an aircraft down there. BA given the UK/AUS ties being the exception. I imagine LH for example is more than happy with routing people via SIN or even BKK.
 
Max Q
Posts: 7995
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:56 pm

Well, with Brexit the UK is not really part of Europe anymore
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Kent350787
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:15 pm

Max Q wrote:
Well, with Brexit the UK is not really part of Europe anymore


True. It may be that UK desperation to get trade deals and Australia seeking to win back markets it feels it lost in the 1970s could strengthen things. That said, BA is rarely even mentioned at the Oz even for flights to the UK.

TK keeps talking about heading here, but I'll believe it when I see it. No other single city/country has the demand to make such a long haul service worthwhile.
 
jumpjets
Posts: 1447
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:28 am

Max Q wrote:
Well, with Brexit the UK is not really part of Europe anymore


Not being too picky I hope but the UK is no longer part of the EU but geographically/ geologically we remain firmly a European nation.
 
DDR
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Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:04 am

Does QANTAS fly to anywhere in Europe other than London?
 
Crackshot
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:57 am

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:58 pm

DDR wrote:
Does QANTAS fly to anywhere in Europe other than London?


Not for a while now. Rumors have been floating of plans to reintroduce services to CDG/FRA nonstop from PER, but they're just that for now, rumors.
 
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PatrickZ80
Posts: 4038
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:32 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
Maybe they will if they see that Qantas is making money on its non-stop flights. If Qantas can make money flying between Australia and Europe, why shouldn't other airlines? I think Turkish might be in a position to do this if it buys some kind of ULR plane. From Istanbul, you can reach any city in Europe without backtracking and they have both the frequency and the feed. Maybe for Lufthansa it would also be viable. I'd imagine BA might also want to provide nonstop flights.


But is Qantas making money on their non-stop flights? That remains to be seen.

It's a tough market, heavily controlled by the Middle Eastern carriers. A direct flight would only have a bonus value for O/D passengers, in other words not connecting on either end. That means a very limited market. People who's departure or arrival is at another airport than where the direct flight is would need to connect. And if you need to connect anyway, what does it matter where you connect? Airlines like Emirates and Qatar would capture these passengers away with lower fares.

Personally, I don't think there's enough demand to make these flights profitable. The difference with USA - Australia and Europe - Australia is that USA - Australia doesn't overfly a price dump region.
 
hoons90
Posts: 3614
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:02 am

DDR wrote:
Does QANTAS fly to anywhere in Europe other than London?


Qantas left Rome in 2003, Paris in 2004 and finally Frankfurt in 2013.
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
AMS18C36C
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:26 am

Various posters on this forum have mentioned that these ULH flights are very costly to operate: for a daily frequency you need two or three aircraft, multiple crews and you need to carry lots of fuel. My guess is everyone is watching QF's results on the non-stop flight.
If any European carrier were to launch Europe-Australia nonstop, my guess would be BA or VA due to the strong ties between the UK and Australia, or TK due to having many European destinations to feed an Australia flight.
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 2518
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Will european airlines ever fly to australia again?

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:53 am

TK could probably launch IST-PER tomorrow if they wanted to... they appear to not want to. And yes you need the premium cabin full to offset the high fuel tankering required on ULH flights.

QF left FRA as the operational charges were too high- it was the favourite crew layover destination- even more popular than London because of the high per diem rate when away from base. Once you've seen tiny downtown FRA there ain't much to spend your money on, so it was all banked.

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