mayhem
Topic Author
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:14 am

West coast of South America - why do planes fly around Peru/Ecuador?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:42 pm

Hi all,

Just flew DL146 from SCL to ATL and noticed we flew around Peru/Ecuador rather than straight over it.
I asked the pilot after deplaning who didn't really know what I was talking about and then ended up saying "we didn't want to fly over Venezuela" - which left me in awe, since I assumed pilots have a somewhat better understanding of what route they fly than he did.

Is this because they want to avoid the mountains and keep Lima closer in case of an engine out option? Or is this for winds?
I checked some other flights and they seemed to follow a similar curve
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /SCEL/KATL
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/LAN ... /SCEL/KJFK

thanks!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14217
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: West coast of South America - why do planes fly around Peru/Ecuador?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:13 pm

As long as I've been going to Santiago (~15 years), the dogleg around Peru and Ecuador has been common on SCL-East Coast flights. Some carriers/flights fly over a bit of the Peruvian and Ecudorian coasts, though, so what you are seeing is likely a combination of terrain, winds, and avoiding overflight fees.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mayhem
Topic Author
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:14 am

Re: West coast of South America - why do planes fly around Peru/Ecuador?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:33 pm

Thanks!
* double posted this by accident in civil aviation - this thread can be closed/deleted but I can't
 
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janders
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Re: West coast of South America - why do planes fly around Peru/Ecuador?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:43 pm

Hopefully, this is clear enough, but the airways structure is built that way

Image

Any yes overflight fees are generally cheaper when you avoid a countries landmass
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
citationjet
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

Re: West coast of South America - why do planes fly around Peru/Ecuador?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:05 pm

I flew AA 940 from SCL to DFW last Saturday. Our flight flew over the coast of Peru and Ecuador, but it was a straight line, as our destination of DFW is further west than ATL or JFK.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
mayhem
Topic Author
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:14 am

Re: West coast of South America - why do planes fly around Peru/Ecuador?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:35 pm

janders wrote:
Hopefully, this is clear enough, but the airways structure is built that way

Image

Any yes overflight fees are generally cheaper when you avoid a countries landmass


Interesting! Where can I learn more about these airways structures? how much are overflight fees typically? Feels like quite a detour (20-30'?) so the savings must be substantial?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 4639
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: West coast of South America - why do planes fly around Peru/Ecuador?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:08 pm

First, Jeppesen would be happy to supply charts for about $12,000 per annum. And, it wouldn’t really help you understand the structure very much. Most flight plans are computed by computer but the planner has tools to see any restrictions and calculate fees for cheapest routing. Fees vary widely by nation, ATC service provide, plane gross weight, distance, operator (private or commercial, is the route especially efficient (Russia, specifically Aeroflot, charges your lungs because Siberia is cost effective for so many city-pairs).

I was once PTY-SCL in military C-5. Guayaquil says, “Lima does not accept your diplomatic clearance, p,ease advise intentions”. Quick look at charts and requested 135* to intercept the airways that run well out to sea (200+ nautical west of Peru). Then some hasty fuel calculations, check weather, alternates and away we went arriving within 15 minutes of plan due to better tailwinds. It happens.

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