Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Ire2008
Topic Author
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:18 pm

Past possible orders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:34 pm

Just wondering does anyone know of airlines considering aircraft choice in the last that seriously considered ordering but for whatever reason didn’t order that aircraft type ? One that springs to mind is Qantas 777 which the A330 seemed to win out in the end. Anybody any others ? Any examples of airlines and aircraft that wouldn’t you wouldn’t expect. eg did EI ever consider the MD80/DC9 etc?

Thanks
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2978
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: Past possible orders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:48 pm

I believe JetBlue was going to start out with 737-800s, but Boeing wasn't very cooperative and we know how that ended up.
 
Rossiya747
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:56 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:58 pm

Air Austral ordered A380's in an 800 seat config but that never turned up. Plus the Aeroflot 787's that got canceled after a falling out with the US.
223 319 320 321 332 333 346 388 734 737 738 739 38M 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 77W 788 789 208 CRJ2 E145 E190 UA DL AA WN AC CM 4O AV 2K FI DY D8 SK LH EI FR U2 IB OS LX BA VS BT PS MS SA SW QR EY HY AI 9W TG SQ MH AK D7 QZ BR NH CA QF MI LV/IB VY AL
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4215
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:01 pm

Emirates A340-600E
Emirates A330-300
Emirates 787-10
Swissair A340-600
 
PB26
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:09 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:14 pm

Transbrasil A300B4, 727-200, 757-200 and 777-200;
Vasp DC-9, 727-100, Caravelle, A310-200;
Tam A310-300, A318 and Embraer 190.
Rio and all South America by Panair do Brasil’s jets.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3802
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Past possible orders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:13 pm

In the early 2000s NZ seriously looked at purchasing the a345 as 767 long-haul replacement (they had just replace the International 737s with a320s).

In the end they went with an order for 77E/7E7 (at that time as still known as the 7E7) to replace the 767s.
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 4137
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Past possible orders

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:49 pm

Ire2008 wrote:
Just wondering does anyone know of airlines considering aircraft choice in the last that seriously considered ordering but for whatever reason didn’t order that aircraft type ?

I think another example might be BA and the A380. How often did they say that they were interested in additional airframes. But, as per their CEO, the evaluation of the proposals they received from both Boeing (779) and Airbus (mix of second hand and new A380s) to their RFP was so unambiguous... the rest is history.
 
User avatar
MD80
Posts: 766
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:29 pm

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:22 am

SAS were close to order 35 MD-95s and finally signed a contract for the Boeing 737-600.
Korean Air considered to order MD-90s and MD-95s to augment their MD-80-fleet and ordered the Boeing 737NG.
ValuJet looked very much into the Airbus A319 and decided to order the MD-95. Austrian Airlines, Finnair, and Swissair were targeted by McDonnell Douglas for the MD-90EC. Austrian and Swissair ordered the A320/321 instead while Finnair postponed their decisions and decided to lease additional MD-80s to replace part of their DC-9-fleet. Cebu Pacific Air was looking at the Boeing 717 to replace their DC-9s and later ordered Airbus-aircraft. Vanguard Airlines were looking to add the Boeing 717.
Alitalia, Northwest Airlines, Air Canada, Aerolineas Argentinas, Wuhan Airlines, and Saudi Arabian Airlines were once mentioned as potential customers for the MD-95
Debonair was mentioned for up to 15 MD-95s. British Midland also considered to order the Boeing 717, including the Boeing 717-100. British Airways was mentioned as a potential operator of up to 40 Boeing 717s. The order went to Airbus. LOT Polish Airlines signed a letter of intent (?) for MD-83s and MD-87s as well as MD-11s (?), but switched "at the last moment" to Boeing.
CSA Czech Airlines were also mentioned many years ago as an operator of MD-80s with the assistance of SAS. Vuelamex wanted to start their ops with Boeing 717s. ProAir prepared the introduction of MD-90s.
Axon Airlines were mentioned as a potential Boeing 717-operator. Start-up Oneida Airlines wanted to start their ops with Boeing 717s. USAir were interested to order up to 100 MD-95s at the same favourable terms like the ValuJet-order. Later, USAir decided to order up to 400 aircraft of the A320-family.

Regards
Dedicated to the MD-80, MD-90, MD-95, and DC-9: www.MD-80.com
 
beechnut
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:27 am

Air Canada ordered A340-500s and 600s. They ended up taking 2 500s which had very short lives with AC, but deferred the 600s indefinitely, and eventually the 777 order kiboshed the A340-600s.

Air Canada has also ordered the MAX 9. In 2018 they delayed their delivery until 2023. There is now a rumour that AC is on the verge of ordering A321LRs and XLRs and will defer the MAX 9 order indefinitely (as in... never), and won't be taking up MAX 8 options. .

Beech
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:29 am

TWA A330 for STL-NRT
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7063
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:54 am

DDL (Danish Air Lines - later a founder of SAS) considered ordering two Douglas DC-3.

In the end they instead got two Focke-Wulf Fw 200A Condor. It was slightly bigger, slightly faster, had slightly longer range, and four engines safety. But most important, the factory test pilot performed a loop with it at an airshow at Aalborg Airport, Denmark. Impressive and not all that common for four engined airliners.

That was 82 years ago.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 856
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:56 am

What about the 748? Did UA or DL ever come close to ordering it?
 
quickmover
Posts: 2201
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:05 am

TWA looked at the 757-300
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5159
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:09 am

I think I read AA looked at the 747-400 before going with the MD-11.

The original concept livery for Skybus was depicted on a 737-700.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7459
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:21 am

Bit of a hard question really IMO, how close did QF really come to ordering the 777 vs say BA ordering the 748I? Of which it was said BA were close to ordering.
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 2394
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:31 am

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Boeing's stunning smash and grab on the Ryanair deal for the A320. Right at the very last second Boeing came in with a knockout deal for the 737-800 and left Airbus at the altar, fuming.

One of John Leahy's rare failures.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2367
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:37 am

US Airways was supposed to take two used A340 for the PHL-China route they were awarded.
 
User avatar
FLALEFTY
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:42 am

The Delta order for 20 B788's inherited from Northwest was never delivered. Virgin Atlantic was one of the launch customers for the A380, ordered 6, with options for more, but never took delivery. Singapore ordered, then canceled the MD-11 due to its inablity to meet their performance standards for range and payload. UPS and FedEx both were launch customers for the A380F, but canceled their orders, ending the A380F program. American took a look at the MD-90, twice: Once when the type was first offered (they passed); then a second time when they took over Reno Airlines, which included a small, but new MD-90 fleet (they passed again and sold off the ex-Reno MD-90's after a brief period in AA's service). TWA was one of the launch customers of the A318, but never took delivery due to financial difficulties. TWA also had talks with Airbus about ordering the A330/340 family to replace their 747 and 767 fleets, but no order transpired. US Airways held an option with Airbus for a small number of A340's, but chose to stick with the A330, instead.
 
IADCA
Posts: 2157
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:10 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
US Airways was supposed to take two used A340 for the PHL-China route they were awarded.


Texas Air-era CO also ordered A340s (as well as A330s).
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:09 am

These are some I could think off. Some mentioned above, some of them order was placed but due to change in strategy or going busted, the airframe was never delivered:

Continental Airlines A330/340
TWA B757-300/A318
Braniff A320 (grey area on this IMO, they did take delivery but went out of service few months after??)
Royal Brunei B777-200 (ex-United airframe), A340-500 (was supposed to lease Air Canada airframe when AC delayed it's EIS), A330
Air Canada A345/346
Singapore Airlines MD-11
Northwest A340-300
Swissair A340-600
Ethiopian Airlines A340-300
Kingfisher Airlines A345/A380
Virgin Atlantic, Skymark Airlines, Air Austral, Hong Kong Airlines, UPS, FedEx, Transaero, ILFC, Amedeo A380
Transaero B747-8i/B788
Lion Air 788
Garuda Indonesia B788 (officially cancelled/789 no update)
Emirates A346/A333
AirBerlin B788
Monarch B788
Travel Service B788
Shanghai Airlines B788
S7 Airlines B788
Primaris Airlines B788
China Eastern B788
Air Pacific (now Fiji Airways) B789
SriLankan A350
Aeroflot B788/789
Hawaiian A338
AirAsia X A332
American A350
Synergy Aerospace A350
Malaysia Airlines B773
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21812
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:46 am

NW was going to fly the A340. That eventually wound up being the A330. But what I wouldn't have given to have seen an A343 in the NW Bowling Shoe scheme.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
TheEuphorian
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:35 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:12 pm

GA was originally going to order the 777-200ER but delayed it due to the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis, and it was converted to a 787 order, then once again to a 77W order that was eventually delivered.
SQ almost ordered the MD-11 but went with A340-300s instead.
Air Siam(Thai airline that got shut down by the government in 1976) almost ordered the L-1011 during the mid 1970s.
US Airways almost acquired 2 ex-TG A340-500 during the late 2000s, but nixed the plans after TG quoted them a relatively high price on these 2nd-hand frames.
MH tried to order the 777-300ER during the 2000s, but nothing materialized.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 13831
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:17 pm

BA for 20-30 A333s around 1997 would probably have served their TATL, EMEA networks well, like all their competitors.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
DL_Mech
Posts: 2455
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:36 pm

A few 767-324s were built for Continental but never delivered. I assume they were rejected in bankruptcy.
Last edited by DL_Mech on Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
User avatar
FLALEFTY
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Past possible orders

Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:36 pm

Back in the mid-late 1970's United had plans to order the proposed, Boeing 727-300. This was to have a lengthened fuselage to accomodate the same number of passengers (189) as the 707-300. It was to have a strengthened landing gear, higher fuel capacity, some aerodynamic tweaks and replacement of the outboard engines with more powerful P&W JT8D-217's. United wanted these for West Coast-Hawaiian services, as well as to up frequencies on select trans-continental routes. United dropped these plans in 1977 when Boeing could not find another launch customer for the variant.
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Past possible orders

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:38 am

TheEuphorian wrote:
GA was originally going to order the 777-200ER but delayed it due to the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis, and it was converted to a 787 order, then once again to a 77W order that was eventually delivered.
SQ almost ordered the MD-11 but went with A340-300s instead.
Air Siam(Thai airline that got shut down by the government in 1976) almost ordered the L-1011 during the mid 1970s.
US Airways almost acquired 2 ex-TG A340-500 during the late 2000s, but nixed the plans after TG quoted them a relatively high price on these 2nd-hand frames.
MH tried to order the 777-300ER during the 2000s, but nothing materialized.

Learnt something new today. Thanks for this.

There are some correction + addition though. Singapore Airlines did place an order for 5 MD-11's and 15 options in January 1990. It was during the test phase when the fuel burn issue and insufficient range came up, they cancelled the whole order and switched to A340 instead. That A340 order was eventually bought out by Boeing for B777.
MH ordered B773 together with B772ER previously. It was during the 97-98 Asia Financial Crisis they changed the B773 to four more B772ER, thus MH ended up 17 B772ER. That's what I have read at least. On B77W order, they were looking at A380 vs. B77W, eventually politics won. They went ahead with A380 against fleet planning team advice in dick-measuring contest with TG and SQ.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
User avatar
vhqpa
Posts: 1698
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Re: Past possible orders

Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:18 am

Didn't Ethiopian order a proposed HGW 767-400 variant, which ultimately got converted to 777-200ERs?

EDIT: It was actually Kenya Airways.


Also Crossair (prior to SR's demise) ordered the Embraer 170. A prototype even got painted in full LX colours.

"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
CowAnon
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:03 am

Re: Past possible orders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:10 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
Back in the mid-late 1970's United had plans to order the proposed, Boeing 727-300. This was to have a lengthened fuselage to accomodate the same number of passengers (189) as the 707-300. It was to have a strengthened landing gear, higher fuel capacity, some aerodynamic tweaks and replacement of the outboard engines with more powerful P&W JT8D-217's. United wanted these for West Coast-Hawaiian services, as well as to up frequencies on select trans-continental routes. United dropped these plans in 1977 when Boeing could not find another launch customer for the variant.

It would be interesting to hear about various OEMs' launch requirements over the years. Around 1986-88, SAS wanted to order 100 7J7s, but Boeing wouldn't go forward without an accompanying US airline to help launch the clean-sheet plane. Then in the mid-1990s, SAS was able to buy the Boeing 737-600 as the sole launch customer. Boeing allowing a single airline to launch a plane would seem to make sense if the new aircraft were just a derivative, but then there's your example of Boeing dropping the 727-300 due to the inability to find more than one buyer.
 
User avatar
FLALEFTY
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Past possible orders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:48 am

CowAnon wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Back in the mid-late 1970's United had plans to order the proposed, Boeing 727-300. This was to have a lengthened fuselage to accomodate the same number of passengers (189) as the 707-300. It was to have a strengthened landing gear, higher fuel capacity, some aerodynamic tweaks and replacement of the outboard engines with more powerful P&W JT8D-217's. United wanted these for West Coast-Hawaiian services, as well as to up frequencies on select trans-continental routes. United dropped these plans in 1977 when Boeing could not find another launch customer for the variant.

It would be interesting to hear about various OEMs' launch requirements over the years. Around 1986-88, SAS wanted to order 100 7J7s, but Boeing wouldn't go forward without an accompanying US airline to help launch the clean-sheet plane. Then in the mid-1990s, SAS was able to buy the Boeing 737-600 as the sole launch customer. Boeing allowing a single airline to launch a plane would seem to make sense if the new aircraft were just a derivative, but then there's your example of Boeing dropping the 727-300 due to the inability to find more than one buyer.


Another strange launch decision by Boeing was the 757-300, which was launched in the late-1990's based on a small order of 13 by Condor. In all, only 55 were produced (for only 7 airlines), though all but one are still in service today.

If I remember correctly, the SAS order for the B736 was a last-minute decision when Boeing made them an offer they couldn't refuse, which included a package deal that included other, larger 737NG models. SAS was to be the launch customer for the MD-95 (B717) and provided much of the design requirements for the program to McDonnell-Douglas. The loss of the SAS launch order nearly ended the MD-95 program until ValuJet (later known as Air Tran) stepped in and took over as the launch airline. While the 717 was better suited to SAS's primary short-haul missions, they favored the 736 for its longer range (allowing them to be used for weekend holiday charters to Southern Europe and North Africa) and for its commonality with the larger 737NG's they planned to order.
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 4137
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Past possible orders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:15 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
The Delta order for 20 B788's inherited from Northwest was never delivered. Virgin Atlantic was one of the launch customers for the A380, ordered 6, with options for more, but never took delivery. Singapore ordered, then canceled the MD-11 due to its inablity to meet their performance standards for range and payload. UPS and FedEx both were launch customers for the A380F, but canceled their orders, ending the A380F program.

Sorry for nitpicking. But what you listed in the first part of your post were firm orders. The question in the OP was:

Ire2008 wrote:
Just wondering does anyone know of airlines considering aircraft choice in the last that seriously considered ordering but for whatever reason didn’t order that aircraft type ?
 
User avatar
FLALEFTY
Posts: 725
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:33 am

Re: Past possible orders

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:57 pm

N14AZ wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
The Delta order for 20 B788's inherited from Northwest was never delivered. Virgin Atlantic was one of the launch customers for the A380, ordered 6, with options for more, but never took delivery. Singapore ordered, then canceled the MD-11 due to its inablity to meet their performance standards for range and payload. UPS and FedEx both were launch customers for the A380F, but canceled their orders, ending the A380F program.

Sorry for nitpicking. But what you listed in the first part of your post were firm orders. The question in the OP was:

Ire2008 wrote:
Just wondering does anyone know of airlines considering aircraft choice in the last that seriously considered ordering but for whatever reason didn’t order that aircraft type ?


Thanks for pointing that out.

I was attempting to expand the dialogue of this thread (as did other posters) to include manufacturer orders for specific airliner types that were ordered, but never delivered to those customers, since these can be more easily verified. In later posts I also discussed SAS having interest in the B717, as well as United's consideration of the proposed, but not developed B727-300.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos