FlyingBlueKLM
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Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:17 am

When I watched this interesting video from @AirplaneProductions https://youtu.be/y05JQS1JRKM, I thought: could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 MAX successor like Airbus did with the A220? In terms of seat count, it’s a good MAX 7, 8, and 9 successor, the -200 has 132 seats, the -300 has 163 seats, and the -400 has 192 seats.
Last edited by FlyingBlueKLM on Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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32andBelow
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:36 am

Below a 0 chance.
 
FlyingBlueKLM
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:45 am

32andBelow wrote:
Below a 0 chance.

Why?
NL: Bij de landing is full reverse het leukst!

EN: Full reverse is the best at touchdown!
 
rigo
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:51 am

Interesting, I was just wondering the same thing. I believe that the MC-21 is technically a very fine aircraft that deserves a chance. It is fitted with western avionics and engines which should facilitate support and integration in existing fleets and it would give Boeing the modern single aisle airliner it needs, probably for a fraction of what it would cost to develop it from scratch. I know it's not that simple (supply chains, logistics, ... politics!) but as an idea I like it.
 
jghealey
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:10 am

I'd say very, very unlikely - given that it's probably a source of national pride for Russia I don't see why they would sell it, and I also don't see how Boeing would buy it considering the political tensions. It would not look good for Boeing to be buying Russian tech in the eyes of the general public.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:12 am

FlyingBlueKLM wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Below a 0 chance.

Why?

Boeing would never buy a Russian or Chinese program. Airbus wouldn’t either.
 
FlyingBlueKLM
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:17 am

jghealey wrote:
I'd say very, very unlikely - given that it's probably a source of national pride for Russia I don't see why they would sell it, and I also don't see how Boeing would buy it considering the political tensions. It would not look good for Boeing to be buying Russian tech in the eyes of the general public.

Okay.
NL: Bij de landing is full reverse het leukst!

EN: Full reverse is the best at touchdown!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:21 am

FlyingBlueKLM wrote:
When I watched this interesting video from @AirplaneProductions https://youtu.be/y05JQS1JRKM, I thought: could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 MAX successor like Airbus did with the A220? In terms of seat count, it’s a good MAX 7, 8, and 9 successor, the -200 has 132 seats, the -300 has 163 seats, and the -400 has 192 seats.


Why would the Russians even consider selling it?
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strfyr51
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:25 am

rigo wrote:
Interesting, I was just wondering the same thing. I believe that the MC-21 is technically a very fine aircraft that deserves a chance. It is fitted with western avionics and engines which should facilitate support and integration in existing fleets and it would give Boeing the modern single aisle airliner it needs, probably for a fraction of what it would cost to develop it from scratch. I know it's not that simple (supply chains, logistics, ... politics!) but as an idea I like it.

and? Exactly what does the MC-21 bring that Boeing Can't bring? I fail to see the logic of a quick fix for something Boeing can do for themselves.
would Boeing have the entire program OR? Would they then have to Transfer Manufacturing Tech to Russia to build and support the MC-21?
Since I'm sure this question is Rhetorical and NOT a serious question,, Boeing could just as easily up the Embraer E195 series as well and NOT transfer any technology or support.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:57 am

Very interesting thought, but highly unlikely. Much more change that they would buy the. Chinese program, but I bet they are not willing to sell. The Chinese want to build their own industry and eventually rival Airbus and Boeing.
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Dutchy
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:59 am

strfyr51 wrote:
rigo wrote:
Interesting, I was just wondering the same thing. I believe that the MC-21 is technically a very fine aircraft that deserves a chance. It is fitted with western avionics and engines which should facilitate support and integration in existing fleets and it would give Boeing the modern single aisle airliner it needs, probably for a fraction of what it would cost to develop it from scratch. I know it's not that simple (supply chains, logistics, ... politics!) but as an idea I like it.

and? Exactly what does the MC-21 bring that Boeing Can't bring? I fail to see the logic of a quick fix for something Boeing can do for themselves.
would Boeing have the entire program OR? Would they then have to Transfer Manufacturing Tech to Russia to build and support the MC-21?
Since I'm sure this question is Rhetorical and NOT a serious question,, Boeing could just as easily up the Embraer E195 series as well and NOT transfer any technology or support.


They could do it themselves, but it will take 5 years, the MC-21 flies today.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
32andBelow
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:22 am

Dutchy wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
rigo wrote:
Interesting, I was just wondering the same thing. I believe that the MC-21 is technically a very fine aircraft that deserves a chance. It is fitted with western avionics and engines which should facilitate support and integration in existing fleets and it would give Boeing the modern single aisle airliner it needs, probably for a fraction of what it would cost to develop it from scratch. I know it's not that simple (supply chains, logistics, ... politics!) but as an idea I like it.

and? Exactly what does the MC-21 bring that Boeing Can't bring? I fail to see the logic of a quick fix for something Boeing can do for themselves.
would Boeing have the entire program OR? Would they then have to Transfer Manufacturing Tech to Russia to build and support the MC-21?
Since I'm sure this question is Rhetorical and NOT a serious question,, Boeing could just as easily up the Embraer E195 series as well and NOT transfer any technology or support.


They could do it themselves, but it will take 5 years, the MC-21 flies today.

Is it actually as reliable and better than a current gen airbus or 737? Doubtful.
 
IWMBH
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:26 am

It won’t happen until hell freezes over.
 
Toinou
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:51 am

strfyr51 wrote:
and? Exactly what does the MC-21 bring that Boeing Can't bring? I fail to see the logic of a quick fix for something Boeing can do for themselves.
would Boeing have the entire program OR? Would they then have to Transfer Manufacturing Tech to Russia to build and support the MC-21?
Since I'm sure this question is Rhetorical and NOT a serious question,, Boeing could just as easily up the Embraer E195 series as well and NOT transfer any technology or support.

I agree with you (and all others) that this is so unlikely that it is fair to say impossible. For many reasons.
That being said, you ask why would boeing buy an outside program instead of doing in house. But, as you point yourself, they just did something very similar with Embraer (and Airbus did it with Bombardier). So, I guess, it is not completely idiot to observe that there is a recent trend in major aircraft manufacturers to complete their offer by buying instead of developing themselves what they need.
Still, buying Russian or Chinese is not likely but I think many people did not see coming that Airbus and Boeing would act this way and interrogations are logical about how far this could go.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:06 am

Toinou wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
and? Exactly what does the MC-21 bring that Boeing Can't bring? I fail to see the logic of a quick fix for something Boeing can do for themselves.
would Boeing have the entire program OR? Would they then have to Transfer Manufacturing Tech to Russia to build and support the MC-21?
Since I'm sure this question is Rhetorical and NOT a serious question,, Boeing could just as easily up the Embraer E195 series as well and NOT transfer any technology or support.

I agree with you (and all others) that this is so unlikely that it is fair to say impossible. For many reasons.
That being said, you ask why would boeing buy an outside program instead of doing in house. But, as you point yourself, they just did something very similar with Embraer (and Airbus did it with Bombardier). So, I guess, it is not completely idiot to observe that there is a recent trend in major aircraft manufacturers to complete their offer by buying instead of developing themselves what they need.
Still, buying Russian or Chinese is not likely but I think many people did not see coming that Airbus and Boeing would act this way and interrogations are logical about how far this could go.


I would certainly agree with you in part. What took Airbus and Boeing to invest on the C-Series and the E2 respectively was that lack of offering on the Regional Jet portfolio (something below the A319 / B737-700 or thereabouts).

As a replacement of their main programs (B737-8 / A320), I do not see neither doing any acquisitions and that's why - contrary to the trend here - I do not see, for example an A220-500 in the pipeline until Airbus reviews the whole portfolio towards one single type replacement for the whole family (A220 and A320 replaced by a single product).

From Boeing's perspective, what it needs to do is to get the B737 in the air - nothing will offset the losses (at least in part) - you cannot write off a whole production line in exchange for another just like this. In regards to the E-Jet Program, I see Boeing replicating Airbus for now just as the latter uses the A220 as a complement to their A320.

Additionally, with the present sanctions scenario, I do not see ANY US company purchasing ANY Russian program and vice-versa. Regardless of the economics (which are not there...) there's simply no Political feasibility for this to happen.
 
asr0dzjq
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:49 pm

Negative infinity chance.
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strfyr51
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:44 pm

Dutchy wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
rigo wrote:
Interesting, I was just wondering the same thing. I believe that the MC-21 is technically a very fine aircraft that deserves a chance. It is fitted with western avionics and engines which should facilitate support and integration in existing fleets and it would give Boeing the modern single aisle airliner it needs, probably for a fraction of what it would cost to develop it from scratch. I know it's not that simple (supply chains, logistics, ... politics!) but as an idea I like it.

and? Exactly what does the MC-21 bring that Boeing Can't bring? I fail to see the logic of a quick fix for something Boeing can do for themselves.
would Boeing have the entire program OR? Would they then have to Transfer Manufacturing Tech to Russia to build and support the MC-21?
Since I'm sure this question is Rhetorical and NOT a serious question,, Boeing could just as easily up the Embraer E195 series as well and NOT transfer any technology or support.


They could do it themselves, but it will take 5 years, the MC-21 flies today.

Boeing is in no serious trouble that they would need the MC-21 to sell to anybody! Boeing has designs on the board and once they get the Max back flying? They'll probably present them So? I think from Boeing's perspective? There's not a need to Panic and rush any design. They will ALWAYS have customers for their airplanes!
 
strfyr51
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:56 pm

Toinou wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
and? Exactly what does the MC-21 bring that Boeing Can't bring? I fail to see the logic of a quick fix for something Boeing can do for themselves.
would Boeing have the entire program OR? Would they then have to Transfer Manufacturing Tech to Russia to build and support the MC-21?
Since I'm sure this question is Rhetorical and NOT a serious question,, Boeing could just as easily up the Embraer E195 series as well and NOT transfer any technology or support.

I agree with you (and all others) that this is so unlikely that it is fair to say impossible. For many reasons.
That being said, you ask why would boeing buy an outside program instead of doing in house. But, as you point yourself, they just did something very similar with Embraer (and Airbus did it with Bombardier). So, I guess, it is not completely idiot to observe that there is a recent trend in major aircraft manufacturers to complete their offer by buying instead of developing themselves what they need.
Still, buying Russian or Chinese is not likely but I think many people did not see coming that Airbus and Boeing would act this way and interrogations are logical about how far this could go.

There are those posting here that are GLOBALISTS.. They know little to nothing about the USA nor the thinking therein. Boeing is more than an airplane manufacturer.
It's a PRIME Defense Contractor to the USA Govt. Anything Boeing thinks or builds and any technology they develop can be used of offensive,or defensive or Commercial applications including aircraft. Transferring knowledge off shore? What's in it for them? Just to sell a few commercial airplanes? It makes no sense.
It would be like Lockheed- Martin opening the doors to the Skunk Works. Are you kidding?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:24 pm

Dutchy wrote:
They could do it themselves, but it will take 5 years, the MC-21 flies today.


Developing from scratch could easily take 5 years, however Boeing doesn't have to develop from scratch. They got the MAX and even though it's currently grounded the grounding won't last forever. No doubt one day it will be released again and that's likely to be well within 5 years. With all the fixes applied to the MAX since the grounding started, it's bound to be the safest plane ever.

The MC-21 isn't exactly an improvement compared to the current 737, it's pretty much on par with the NG. So it's no successor, just a continuation. The MAX is the real successor as it easily outperforms the MC-21.
 
Rossiya747
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:35 pm

Are you ok
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VSMUT
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Re: Could Boeing buy the MC-21 program as a 737 successor?

Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:06 am

strfyr51 wrote:
There are those posting here that are GLOBALISTS.. They know little to nothing about the USA nor the thinking therein. Boeing is more than an airplane manufacturer.
It's a PRIME Defense Contractor to the USA Govt. Anything Boeing thinks or builds and any technology they develop can be used of offensive,or defensive or Commercial applications including aircraft. Transferring knowledge off shore? What's in it for them? Just to sell a few commercial airplanes? It makes no sense.
It would be like Lockheed- Martin opening the doors to the Skunk Works. Are you kidding?


Boeing did a significant amount of the aerodynamic design of the 787 at their design center in Moscow.


PatrickZ80 wrote:
The MC-21 isn't exactly an improvement compared to the current 737, it's pretty much on par with the NG. So it's no successor, just a continuation. The MAX is the real successor as it easily outperforms the MC-21.


I doubt that. The MC-21 development has not been shrouded in secrecy. The MC-21 should be able to outperform even the A321neo. They really threw in all developments available to them. Extensive composite use, cold-baked composites, Aluminium-Lithium fuselage, supercritical wing, active sidesticks, fly-by-wire and so on. Unlike the 737MAX, it has proper full-size non-compromised engines. The aircraft itself is extremely impressive. What matters is all the training, aftermarket support and such.

It is the Chinese jet, the C919, that is the more conservative design that will at best only match a 737MAX or A320neo.

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