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UA857
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Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:50 am

When did UA retire the L-1011 just 3 years after acquiring it from PA?
Last edited by UA857 on Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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janders
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:21 am

6 orphan L-1011s in the midst of 60+ DC-10s hardly made sense to keep.
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:34 am

UA857 wrote:
When did UA retire the L-1011 just 3 years after acquiring it from PA?


After United took them over from Pan Am, the sub-fleet of just 6 L-1011-500's were eventually replaced with DC-10-30's, which maintained substantial commonality with the rest of United's legacy fleet of DC-10-10's. This move rationalized maintenance and training costs, as well as simplified the crew seniority ladder. However, these L-1011-500's did live on with Delta, who obtained UA's sub-fleet to go with their L-1011-1 & 200 fleet.
 
AA747123
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:36 am

Did United put their own interiors in the L10's? Or a hybrid PA/UA or did they keep PA colors? Never found a picture of UA L10 interiors
 
United1
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:26 am

AA747123 wrote:
Did United put their own interiors in the L10's? Or a hybrid PA/UA or did they keep PA colors? Never found a picture of UA L10 interiors


UA kept the same seating configuration as PA used on the L1011s. I’m not 100% sure if they swapped out the seat covers for UAs style or not.
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blacksoviet
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:26 am

I’m pretty sure the DC-10-30 has more range than the L1011-500.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:28 am

United1 wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Did United put their own interiors in the L10's? Or a hybrid PA/UA or did they keep PA colors? Never found a picture of UA L10 interiors


UA kept the same seating configuration as PA used on the L1011s. I’m not 100% sure if they swapped out the seat covers for UAs style or not.

Were these three-class aircraft?
 
hoons90
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:14 am

Some interior shots of the UA L-1011 can be found in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgk7fCP5om0
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deltacto
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:30 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Were these three-class aircraft?


yes .... seat map from 1987

http://departedflights.com/UAL1587.html

this is the exact same configuration that Pan Am had

http://www.departedflights.com/PAL151085.html

these aircraft had mid-cabin lavs .... and 3x4x3 seating in coach
 
Sevoair
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:08 am

A comment on the video says this was Pac Day—the day that United took over from Pan Am. I read in an old article that United took over planes (obviously here the L1011s) and employees from Pan Am as part of the sale. So, were employees for Pan Am specifically in a Pacific, Atlantic or domestic division? Or how they chose which employees went to United. I assume in the video these had been Pan Am employees who were now United employees.

Does anyone recall how that integration went compared to some more modern ones? I vaguely remember, as a child, seeing the Pan Am 747s at SFOs central terminal and then a couple years later (i didn’t fly much until later) seeing mostly United 747s there. I always wanted to fly international as kid! Took me until my 20s!

Thanks!


hoons90 wrote:
Some interior shots of the UA L-1011 can be found in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgk7fCP5om0
 
UA857
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:06 am

When was UA´s last L-1011 flight?
 
cedarjet
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:21 am

UA857 wrote:
When was UA´s last L-1011 flight?

Three years after Pac Day
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:45 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
However, these L-1011-500's did live on with Delta, who obtained UA's sub-fleet to go with their L-1011-1 & 200 fleet.

Which is sorta ironic, as DL had temporarily leased some of the DC10s intended for UA, while waiting for its L1011s.
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Cody
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:24 am

Not sure if the L1011s received United interiors, but I know the 747sp's ( they arrived at the same time ) did rather quickly.

They got the same grey economy seats, with orange and magenta checkerboard squares, that the DC-8s and most of the DC-10s had.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:48 am

Did the PA L1011's in UA colors see TPAC service in 1986 and 1987 before they left the fleet?
 
Cody
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:11 pm

Yes, from SFO to Osaka.
 
superjeff
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:40 pm

hoons90 wrote:
Some interior shots of the UA L-1011 can be found in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgk7fCP5om0



This video was obviously filmed shortly after the takeover of PA's Pacific routes by UA and the interior is definitely Pan Am. Note that Pan Am's configuration of the L10 was denser than the norm back then. The original L10's on most carriers in Economy was 2-4-2; later they went to 2-5-2 on most airlines. I believe that a few airlines (CX, NH, and PA come to mind) operated a ten abreast confirguration in Economy, which must have been painful.
 
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:31 pm

janders wrote:
6 orphan L-1011s in the midst of 60+ DC-10s hardly made sense to keep.


Well in a way that's true, however the L15s were mostly used on long-haul flights whereas UA's DC-10 fleet was essentially made off domestic aircraft, except the eight DC-10-30s/-30CFs. Since with the acquisition of the Pacific network came all of PA's 74L, they fitted better in their fleet than the Lockheeds.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:13 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
I’m pretty sure the DC-10-30 has more range than the L1011-500.


Wikipedia says no DC-10-30 to L-1011-500, but if you want to cite a source, great.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:21 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
I’m pretty sure the DC-10-30 has more range than the L1011-500.


Wikipedia says no DC-10-30 to L-1011-500, but if you want to cite a source, great.


It might be that the DC-10-30s from around 1979/80 have a little longer, not by much, range than the L15. This with more capacity. Wikipedia indicates the early variants engines and MTOW.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:07 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
I’m pretty sure the DC-10-30 has more range than the L1011-500.


Wikipedia says no DC-10-30 to L-1011-500, but if you want to cite a source, great.


It might be that the DC-10-30s from around 1979/80 have a little longer, not by much, range than the L15. This with more capacity. Wikipedia indicates the early variants engines and MTOW.


The L1011-500 carried 246 passengers (multi-class) at a MTOW of 510,000 lbs. for a max range of 5,345 nm; the DC-10-30 carried 270 passengers (multi-class) at a MTOW of 555,000 lb. for a max range of 5,100 nm. (Source: Wikipedia)
 
ltbewr
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:18 pm

Did any of these PA L-1011's after UA and DL go to other operators like ATA ?
 
kaitak
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:35 pm

I presume no UA crews ever trained on the L1011? All ex-PA until they presumably converted to whatever their seniority would allow (767s? DC10s?) once the L1011s were retired?

Was there bad feeling; did PA crews feel that they were treated well by UA? Did UA make an effort to make them feel welcome?
 
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deltacto
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:58 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Did any of these PA L-1011's after UA and DL go to other operators like ATA ?



Of UA's 6 L15's ... Delta acquired 5 and LTU acquired 1 .... none went on to fly for any other carrier after Delta and LTU retired them

https://rzjets.net/aircraft/?parentid=1 ... frstatus=3

Initially Delta kept their L15's at 10 abreast in coach and flew them on transpacific routes. Once DL acquired enough MD11's, they reconfigured the L15's to 9 abreast and flew them transatlantic
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:14 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
The L1011-500 carried 246 passengers (multi-class) at a MTOW of 510,000 lbs. for a max range of 5,345 nm; the DC-10-30 carried 270 passengers (multi-class) at a MTOW of 555,000 lb. for a max range of 5,100 nm. (Source: Wikipedia)



I know, hence what I said about early variants. For instance, Laker Airways DC-10-30s had a MTOW of 580,000 lb. and CF6-50C2 engines producing 54,000 lb. thrust.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:59 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Did United put their own interiors in the L10's? Or a hybrid PA/UA or did they keep PA colors? Never found a picture of UA L10 interiors


Some sort of UA interior made it to the L10s. I remember seeing used UA airplane carpet at the TOC in ATL in the early '90s (presumably from a UA L10).
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
UA444
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:04 am

Cody wrote:
Not sure if the L1011s received United interiors, but I know the 747sp's ( they arrived at the same time ) did rather quickly.

They got the same grey economy seats, with orange and magenta checkerboard squares, that the DC-8s and most of the DC-10s had.

The SP stayed until 1995 or so. Which is why they were repainted quickly and refurbished quicker.
 
Cody
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:21 am

DL_Mech wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Did United put their own interiors in the L10's? Or a hybrid PA/UA or did they keep PA colors? Never found a picture of UA L10 interiors


Some sort of UA interior made it to the L10s. I remember seeing used UA airplane carpet at the TOC in ATL in the early '90s (presumably from a UA L10).


Was it the charcoal grey carpet with little red and white squares?

Someone above asked if the 1011s were all crewed by former Pan Am folks. I believe UAL put some new hire flight engineers into the L1011.
 
UA857
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:31 am

What routes did UA fly the L-1011 on during its career I want the full route list from 1986-1989.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:56 pm

Cody wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Did United put their own interiors in the L10's? Or a hybrid PA/UA or did they keep PA colors? Never found a picture of UA L10 interiors


Some sort of UA interior made it to the L10s. I remember seeing used UA airplane carpet at the TOC in ATL in the early '90s (presumably from a UA L10).


Was it the charcoal grey carpet with little red and white squares?

Someone above asked if the 1011s were all crewed by former Pan Am folks. I believe UAL put some new hire flight engineers into the L1011.


The aircraft were crewed by those Pan Am flight crews that transferred to UAL with the sale of the Pacific division.I suppose that if UAL increased utilization there would e some additional slots open up that in turn would be available to the UAL pilot group. Would be surprised to see any off the street new hires migrate to the L1011 as it would require pay protecting a significant group of UAL pilots. I guess anything was possible.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:18 pm

Cody wrote:

Was it the charcoal grey carpet with little red and white squares?


Yes, that was it.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
Cody
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Re: Why did UA retire the L-1011?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:57 pm

If that was the case I assume the seats were like the DC-8. I have a picture here but I have no idea how to post it.

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