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Vladex
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Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:07 pm

This is something that came up to me before but now with the epidemic and a shutdown and it's another one of those generic topics so I may as well throw it out there. Hawaiian is only flying to Tahiti and American Samoa per wiki , shouldn't they be flying to other islands especially Guam and Northern Mariana islands but also more exotic places like Fiji, Nauru, Tonga, Solomon, Vanuatu and others? I think there is a tourism demand on some level. It's in range of A321 NEO and it may just be a weekly flight
 
Toinou
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:15 pm

If they have a stable market on which they can rely, it would be hazardous to try absolutely to find (or even create) new markets. Whatever free market zealots may say, growth is not always the best business option.

The living standard in most of those countries is really low, creating a very limited local demand.

Added to that, I am not sure that tourism is really important in many of these places. Nauru has not much to attract people after dutifully destroying its environment. In the case of Samoa, the problem has more to do with very strict religious rules.
Last edited by Toinou on Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:16 pm

It is a common a.net failure to start by stating 'xxx-yyy is within range of zzz aircraft - Why doesn't some carrier XX fly it?' An essentially infinite number of routes is within range of modern aircraft, but that's starting from the wrong end.

What is the demand, and drivers of demand, between two airports xxx-yyy? How many people per day? How are they traveling between those airport pairs today? Will they pay a premium for non-stop service available to fill aircraft zzz? Can demand be stimulated by non-stop service? How much will demand be stimulated by lower fares that still achieve carrier XX's threshhold rate of return? How can competitors react? And so on.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:21 pm

Because there is no demand.

Demand to/from Nauru/Tonga/Solomon/Vanuatu is overwhelmingly skewed to Australia and New Zealand due to close proximity and because of historic Colonial and/or Commonwealth ties. The Solomon Islands, for example, are roughly only 1000 miles off the coast of Australia, but more than 3000 miles away from Hawaii. Given the lack of ties and the small population on the islands, a flight makes no sense.

Fiji has a flight to HNL on FJ on a 738 that serves the market well. IIRC either Hawaiian or Aloha (or Aloha Pacific, Aloha's long haul subsidiary with DC10s) served HNL-NAN at one point. CO also make the effort at least once, and I believe the route was discontinued just before or after the UA merger. Again, Fiji traffic is overwhelmingly skewed to Australia...it is basically Australia's version of Cancun or the Caribbean as a holiday destination. HNL-NAN is no short hop...its over 3000 miles and pushing the range of a 738, which FJ use and what CO used.

Demand to the Pacific Islands from HNL is to US Federated Trust Territory and GUM, which UA has covered. There is also demand to Pago Pago, which HA covers as well.
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:00 pm

Vladex wrote:
I think there is a tourism demand on some level. It's in range of A321 NEO and it may just be a weekly flight


Based on what do you think there is demand from HNL? Even if there could be some passengers on such routes, is that enough to cover the operational costs for such flights?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:07 pm

For the record, I intend no sarcasm whatsoever in this post. Please understand that as both a geography teacher and aviation enthusiast, this is a topic on which I feel I can add; however, there is no indictment of the poverty or lack of infrastructure in the Pacific. I am simply stating the facts.

Vladex, this is an excellent question that I have followed for many decades, starting in the 1970's as a geeky child pouring through my World Book encyclopedia set, devouring information wherever I could get it. I drew my own map of the Pacific and created "Trans-Pacific Airlines", a U.S.-based airline flying throughout the Pacific, connecting all the different cultures of the vast ocean area.

But the more I read on the region, the more complex the situation was - this isn't an area bursting at the seams with people nor with vast numbers of people desiring to fly to/from this region. What existed then - and what exists today - doesn't lend itself to the traditional market. Here are some factors to consider:

1) The population of the entire Pacific region, not including Australia, New Zealand, or any other major country bordering on the area (such as Indonesia or the Philippines) is roughly 2.3 million people.

https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/pacificislands/overview

Less than the San Diego region.

2) The vast distances. The largest single physical feature on this planet is the Pacific Ocean, and "vast" doesn't begin to describe it. It is larger than the combined land masses of all the continents, and, depending on where one would imagine the boundary lines, is as big as the Atlantic and Indian Oceans combined. Even removing more than half the ocean from the equation, i.e. the Northern Pacific north of Hawai'i and the Micronesian states along with the stretches of the eastern Pacific east of Hawai'i / French Polynesia / Easter Island, that is still an enormous amount of land of which most Pacific islands are located.

3) Cultural & Ethnic differences. There are three distinct groups in the Pacific islands: Micronesians, Melanesians, and Polynesians, all of which have settled on different groups of islands. Micronesians are generally in the northwest region of the populated Pacific, Melanesians in the southwestern Pacific, and Polynesians to the east.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_in_the_Pacific_Ocean#/media/File:Pacific_Culture_Areas.png

Yes, yes, I know - "don't trust Wikipedia". But in this case, the map is accurate.

So now we have three distinct ethnic groups spreading out throughout the Pacific, crossing vast distances of inhospitable geography (the oceans), looking for new land. Yes, there would be contact between the groups off and on, but nothing tremendously regular, as the ethnic groups started separating further; such as Samoans and Hawaiians developing independently. Cultural ties remain visible but regular contact between most of the "islanders" outside of their main group doesn't happen.

Which brings us to the modern era. What we have today is a very small population, scattered across an enormous ocean, living in beautiful but remote locations, without cultural or major economic ties to their neighbors, and not having large amounts of money to travel, as would be found in "developed" countries. This is not to belittle the people of this region; it is to point out that industrialization is never going to happen on these islands as it would on continental countries. The people of these islands, therefore, will probably not ever be a driving force for premium demand in air travel in this region.

And vice-versa as well. Despite the incredible beauty and historic sites, how many Americans would skip over Hawai'i to go to Palau? Or the Solomon Islands? Fiji is an exception, but only because of its colonial importance in the past.

And that's where the real demand is: where did the Pacific Island migrants migrate to? The nation of Samoa, for example, is so tied to Australia and New Zealand that it not only switched from right-hand to left-hand drive (because so many of their citizens couldn't adjust after having lived in Australia and NZ), but they actually skipped a day to move ahead 24 hours, so that instead of being 21 hours BEHIND Australia and NZ (and on a different day), they are now three hours ahead.

But American Samoa, tied to the U.S., didn't change. There was no need for them to do so, and now these close-by but independent neighbors are a day apart.

So, to summarize, an incredibly small population living scattered across thousands of tiny islands in an almost-inconceivably large ocean, hundreds and thousands of miles apart from each other, with little if any cultural links, with little to no premium demand originating from their islands, and distances killing off most premium demand for travel TO these islands. There are simply too many strikes against the islands of the Pacific for more service.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:08 pm

Nauru- are you serious? Do you know anything about Nauru or did you just see it on the map and think "surely" there must be demand???

FJ satisfies what North American demand exists for NAN.

UA satisfies what North American demand exists for GUM. UA also tried GUM-NAN-HNL and it didn't work.

Anyhow- 1990 HA route map. Note the cancelled Pacific routes:
http://timetablist.blogspot.com/2012/09 ... -1990.html
Last edited by eta unknown on Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Aither
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:09 pm

Maybe the A321XLR in the future could make some pacific destinations viable from HNL, or from secondary Hawaiian airports to larger destinations. In particular if these destinations can connect on banks to the continent.

With all the network / competition changes expected some destinations could become new opportunities for Airlines like Hawaiian. Airlines should not only focus on what to do with their current network but also what new opportunities could emerge from the crisis.

What will happen to Virgin Australia or United on some transpacific markets could create some opportunities for HAL, if they can capture these opportunities. Network & fleet planners will be very busy!
Never trust the obvious
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:31 pm

It may also involve something that is almost anachronistic. Over tourism. I could see doing a trip or two to one of these remote islands and spending a month, really doing nothing. But even a 738 would bring just too many people for a small island population to cope. Those small island populations could likely not only cope but benefit from a small tourist industry - like a few dozen at a time, but 200??
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Aesma
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:23 pm

Some of these places have little demand from anywhere already. On top of that, there is no reason for that demand to come from HNL. It's a bit like trying to get demand from the French Alps to some ski resort in another far away country. Why would anyone go from one to the other ?
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x1234
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:30 pm

FJs bread and butter is flying people from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL/SIN/HKG/NRT to the US (SFO/LAX) for cheap as a connecting airline.
 
x1234
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:38 pm

You know I always wondered by HA doesn't fly to GUM or MEL, one a high yielding US territory and the other the 2nd most populous city in Australia.
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:40 pm

An example that covers a good bit of this. I used to fly several times a year to Guam from Seattle. I thought via HNL would be the best route, but it is substantially more than via NRT - Not once in nearly 20 R/Ts was via HNL the best choice, even though it is several hours less flying. It is complicated by the flight from SEA arrives after the HNL-GUM leaves, so an overnight in HNL is required, I was OK with that as I also do business in HNL so I could do a 3 leg flight. Why?

Tourists from the US and Canada go to Hawaii for vacations, jumping on a plane for an added day each way just doesn't compute. Instead enjoy 2 extra days in Hawaii. A lot of Hawaii contractors do work in Guam, but the work is done by the local Guam office. Guam's tourist industry is primarily from Japan, S Korea, and some Hong Kong / China mainland (flights vis Hong Kong), its a 5 hour flight from Tokyo vs nearly 8 to Hawaii.

Hawaiian is already flying the routes that make sense in the pacific, a lot of the flights are a 737 once a day. It seems quite regular that it pulls service from various places as there is not enough traffic.
 
AirlineBob
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:42 pm

Aren't a lot of those Pacific islands served via UAs Island Hopper service? Also, isn't that service subsidized via the Essential Air Service program, or some other form of government subsidy?
 
Judge1310
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:26 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
For the record, I intend no sarcasm whatsoever in this post. Please understand that as both a geography teacher and aviation enthusiast, this is a topic on which I feel I can add; however, there is no indictment of the poverty or lack of infrastructure in the Pacific. I am simply stating the facts.

Vladex, this is an excellent question that I have followed for many decades, starting in the 1970's as a geeky child pouring through my World Book encyclopedia set, devouring information wherever I could get it. I drew my own map of the Pacific and created "Trans-Pacific Airlines", a U.S.-based airline flying throughout the Pacific, connecting all the different cultures of the vast ocean area.

But the more I read on the region, the more complex the situation was - this isn't an area bursting at the seams with people nor with vast numbers of people desiring to fly to/from this region. What existed then - and what exists today - doesn't lend itself to the traditional market. Here are some factors to consider:

1) The population of the entire Pacific region, not including Australia, New Zealand, or any other major country bordering on the area (such as Indonesia or the Philippines) is roughly 2.3 million people.

https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/pacificislands/overview

Less than the San Diego region.

2) The vast distances. The largest single physical feature on this planet is the Pacific Ocean, and "vast" doesn't begin to describe it. It is larger than the combined land masses of all the continents, and, depending on where one would imagine the boundary lines, is as big as the Atlantic and Indian Oceans combined. Even removing more than half the ocean from the equation, i.e. the Northern Pacific north of Hawai'i and the Micronesian states along with the stretches of the eastern Pacific east of Hawai'i / French Polynesia / Easter Island, that is still an enormous amount of land of which most Pacific islands are located.

3) Cultural & Ethnic differences. There are three distinct groups in the Pacific islands: Micronesians, Melanesians, and Polynesians, all of which have settled on different groups of islands. Micronesians are generally in the northwest region of the populated Pacific, Melanesians in the southwestern Pacific, and Polynesians to the east.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_in_the_Pacific_Ocean#/media/File:Pacific_Culture_Areas.png

Yes, yes, I know - "don't trust Wikipedia". But in this case, the map is accurate.

So now we have three distinct ethnic groups spreading out throughout the Pacific, crossing vast distances of inhospitable geography (the oceans), looking for new land. Yes, there would be contact between the groups off and on, but nothing tremendously regular, as the ethnic groups started separating further; such as Samoans and Hawaiians developing independently. Cultural ties remain visible but regular contact between most of the "islanders" outside of their main group doesn't happen.

Which brings us to the modern era. What we have today is a very small population, scattered across an enormous ocean, living in beautiful but remote locations, without cultural or major economic ties to their neighbors, and not having large amounts of money to travel, as would be found in "developed" countries. This is not to belittle the people of this region; it is to point out that industrialization is never going to happen on these islands as it would on continental countries. The people of these islands, therefore, will probably not ever be a driving force for premium demand in air travel in this region.

And vice-versa as well. Despite the incredible beauty and historic sites, how many Americans would skip over Hawai'i to go to Palau? Or the Solomon Islands? Fiji is an exception, but only because of its colonial importance in the past.

And that's where the real demand is: where did the Pacific Island migrants migrate to? The nation of Samoa, for example, is so tied to Australia and New Zealand that it not only switched from right-hand to left-hand drive (because so many of their citizens couldn't adjust after having lived in Australia and NZ), but they actually skipped a day to move ahead 24 hours, so that instead of being 21 hours BEHIND Australia and NZ (and on a different day), they are now three hours ahead.

But American Samoa, tied to the U.S., didn't change. There was no need for them to do so, and now these close-by but independent neighbors are a day apart.

So, to summarize, an incredibly small population living scattered across thousands of tiny islands in an almost-inconceivably large ocean, hundreds and thousands of miles apart from each other, with little if any cultural links, with little to no premium demand originating from their islands, and distances killing off most premium demand for travel TO these islands. There are simply too many strikes against the islands of the Pacific for more service.


Bravo for providing a beautiful, informative, and well-thought out response/explanation. :-)

Unfortunately, it's becoming more of a rarity on this site these days...
 
BravoOne
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:56 pm

As I recall there was a large push to develop the tourism business in the South Pacific with many grand predictions of major hotel resort developments. For the most part it simply failed to live up to the predictions, and thus today it remains somewhat of a backwater for any significant tourism industry. I don't think Pan American ever made any money serving these very remote stations.
 
mcg
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:12 pm

BravoOne wrote:
As I recall there was a large push to develop the tourism business in the South Pacific with many grand predictions of major hotel resort developments. For the most part it simply failed to live up to the predictions, and thus today it remains somewhat of a backwater for any significant tourism industry. I don't think Pan American ever made any money serving these very remote stations.


Fiji, Cook Islands, Samoa and even Vanuatu do have tourism industries. They are all highly oriented toward Australia and NZ.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:22 pm

I believe Hawaiian has flights to Papeete, Tahiti from Honolulu
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:51 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
For the record, I intend no sarcasm whatsoever in this post. Please understand that as both a geography teacher and aviation enthusiast, this is a topic on which I feel I can add; however, there is no indictment of the poverty or lack of infrastructure in the Pacific. I am simply stating the facts.

Vladex, this is an excellent question that I have followed for many decades, starting in the 1970's as a geeky child pouring through my World Book encyclopedia set, devouring information wherever I could get it. I drew my own map of the Pacific and created "Trans-Pacific Airlines", a U.S.-based airline flying throughout the Pacific, connecting all the different cultures of the vast ocean area.

But the more I read on the region, the more complex the situation was - this isn't an area bursting at the seams with people nor with vast numbers of people desiring to fly to/from this region. What existed then - and what exists today - doesn't lend itself to the traditional market. Here are some factors to consider:

1) The population of the entire Pacific region, not including Australia, New Zealand, or any other major country bordering on the area (such as Indonesia or the Philippines) is roughly 2.3 million people.

https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/pacificislands/overview

Less than the San Diego region.

2) The vast distances. The largest single physical feature on this planet is the Pacific Ocean, and "vast" doesn't begin to describe it. It is larger than the combined land masses of all the continents, and, depending on where one would imagine the boundary lines, is as big as the Atlantic and Indian Oceans combined. Even removing more than half the ocean from the equation, i.e. the Northern Pacific north of Hawai'i and the Micronesian states along with the stretches of the eastern Pacific east of Hawai'i / French Polynesia / Easter Island, that is still an enormous amount of land of which most Pacific islands are located.

3) Cultural & Ethnic differences. There are three distinct groups in the Pacific islands: Micronesians, Melanesians, and Polynesians, all of which have settled on different groups of islands. Micronesians are generally in the northwest region of the populated Pacific, Melanesians in the southwestern Pacific, and Polynesians to the east.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_in_the_Pacific_Ocean#/media/File:Pacific_Culture_Areas.png

Yes, yes, I know - "don't trust Wikipedia". But in this case, the map is accurate.

So now we have three distinct ethnic groups spreading out throughout the Pacific, crossing vast distances of inhospitable geography (the oceans), looking for new land. Yes, there would be contact between the groups off and on, but nothing tremendously regular, as the ethnic groups started separating further; such as Samoans and Hawaiians developing independently. Cultural ties remain visible but regular contact between most of the "islanders" outside of their main group doesn't happen.

Which brings us to the modern era. What we have today is a very small population, scattered across an enormous ocean, living in beautiful but remote locations, without cultural or major economic ties to their neighbors, and not having large amounts of money to travel, as would be found in "developed" countries. This is not to belittle the people of this region; it is to point out that industrialization is never going to happen on these islands as it would on continental countries. The people of these islands, therefore, will probably not ever be a driving force for premium demand in air travel in this region.

And vice-versa as well. Despite the incredible beauty and historic sites, how many Americans would skip over Hawai'i to go to Palau? Or the Solomon Islands? Fiji is an exception, but only because of its colonial importance in the past.

And that's where the real demand is: where did the Pacific Island migrants migrate to? The nation of Samoa, for example, is so tied to Australia and New Zealand that it not only switched from right-hand to left-hand drive (because so many of their citizens couldn't adjust after having lived in Australia and NZ), but they actually skipped a day to move ahead 24 hours, so that instead of being 21 hours BEHIND Australia and NZ (and on a different day), they are now three hours ahead.

But American Samoa, tied to the U.S., didn't change. There was no need for them to do so, and now these close-by but independent neighbors are a day apart.

So, to summarize, an incredibly small population living scattered across thousands of tiny islands in an almost-inconceivably large ocean, hundreds and thousands of miles apart from each other, with little if any cultural links, with little to no premium demand originating from their islands, and distances killing off most premium demand for travel TO these islands. There are simply too many strikes against the islands of the Pacific for more service.


Bravo for providing a beautiful, informative, and well-thought out response/explanation. :-)

Unfortunately, it's becoming more of a rarity on this site these days...


Thank you! I am grateful to be acknowledged for an informed reply.

And thank you to all the posters who have added to this topic. A nice diversion from the routine of quarantine...
 
strfyr51
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:02 pm

Hawaiian and Aloha had the chance for many years to put service into the Marshal Islands, and Guam from Hawaii and never chose to. Continental Airlines flew Air Micronesia service with 727's as far back as 1972 from what I remember as I had friends that worked for Global Assoc. on some of those Islands and they flew in and out on Continental and some of Global's C123's . I flew Island Patrols in my first Deployment as a P-3C Flight Engineer and we mapped those Islands yearly. after storms and Typhoons. We flew west from NAS Barber's point Hawaii to NAS Midway Island, NAS Agana Guam and Ocean survellence to many of the Micronesia Islands Like Yap, Ponepei, and many of the Atolls. We'd land on Kwajalein sometimes just for crew rest where they had a chef there who made us steak over cabbage and rice. A dish I have never found since in any restaurant the way he made it. Deeper still? All of them had Airline service from Contintal Air Micronesia at the time and to this day United has the Air Micronesia service via of Continental. So? Hawaiian or Aloha back in the day could have bid and flown Air Micronesia Service to and West of Guam all the way to the Philippine islands where we used to overnight and turn around South of the Marshall Islands the Kiwi's and Aussies flew patrols and At times we would cross paths with them and share a mean and Beer if they overnighted.
 
Byrdluvs747
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:06 pm

Aither wrote:

What will happen to Virgin Australia.... on some transpacific markets could create some opportunities for HAL, if they can capture these opportunities.


Interesting situation. I wonder how much feed HA & VA exchange and SYD/BNE. Any demise of VA could cut that feed off and give QF an advantage over HA.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
AirlineBob
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:17 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
And thank you to all the posters who have added to this topic. A nice diversion from the routine of quarantine...


This x1000.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:50 pm

mcg wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
As I recall there was a large push to develop the tourism business in the South Pacific with many grand predictions of major hotel resort developments. For the most part it simply failed to live up to the predictions, and thus today it remains somewhat of a backwater for any significant tourism industry. I don't think Pan American ever made any money serving these very remote stations.


Fiji, Cook Islands, Samoa and even Vanuatu do have tourism industries. They are all highly oriented toward Australia and NZ.




Yes this was a North America focused program and I have been to all those spots at least once and therein lies the problem. Once is usually enough. For a viable tourist trade you need repeat travels. The current state of tourism speaks for itself. Even NTAA is pretty low key if you take Moorea or Bora Borara out of the eqauation as beautiful as they are.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:55 pm

x1234 wrote:
FJs bread and butter is flying people from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL/SIN/HKG/NRT to the US (SFO/LAX) for cheap as a connecting airline.


To a degree yes, FJ with the smaller A330 now A359 compared to the previous 744s give FJ more P2P routes for inbound tourism to Fiji, also more feed though for connections over NAN mainly from OZ/NZ-US.

Fiji relies hugely on Tourism. So do Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands but there are limited hotel rooms and air services outside of NZ Australia, mainly AKL/SYD/BNE, NZ run a weekly RAR-LAX still which is topped up by the government to break even, weather it returns after Covid remains to be seen.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:01 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Fiji relies hugely on Tourism. So do Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands but there are limited hotel rooms

This really has been the perennial problem in the Pacific, especially for smaller sized places such as the Cook Islands. It is difficult to get investment in hotels without knowing there will be air service, and difficult to grow air service without knowing there will be places for people to stay.

Canada 3000 tried to get into the Cook Islands market back in the late 1990s, and the infamous hotel at Vaimaanga was going to be completed in the back of the increase in capacity, but then the airline went belly up and the hotel project soon came to naught again.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:43 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Fiji relies hugely on Tourism. So do Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands but there are limited hotel rooms

This really has been the perennial problem in the Pacific, especially for smaller sized places such as the Cook Islands. It is difficult to get investment in hotels without knowing there will be air service, and difficult to grow air service without knowing there will be places for people to stay.

Canada 3000 tried to get into the Cook Islands market back in the late 1990s, and the infamous hotel at Vaimaanga was going to be completed in the back of the increase in capacity, but then the airline went belly up and the hotel project soon came to naught again.

V/F


I forgot about C3 into RAR I think they did 2-3 years seasonally? First year was a weekly 752? Then I think they did 2? Weekly A332s for maybe 1-2 NW seasons? Not a great time of year to go to the Islands though, better May-October not DEC-JAN.

Maybe a case for someone to fly LAX-RAR? But who, no one does APW/TBU-LAX, FJ do a weekly 738 APW-HNL where as a wide body can uplift freight which is important on those low frequency Island services.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:58 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Fiji relies hugely on Tourism. So do Samoa, Tonga, Cook Islands but there are limited hotel rooms

This really has been the perennial problem in the Pacific, especially for smaller sized places such as the Cook Islands. It is difficult to get investment in hotels without knowing there will be air service, and difficult to grow air service without knowing there will be places for people to stay.

Canada 3000 tried to get into the Cook Islands market back in the late 1990s, and the infamous hotel at Vaimaanga was going to be completed in the back of the increase in capacity, but then the airline went belly up and the hotel project soon came to naught again.

V/F


I forgot about C3 into RAR I think they did 2-3 years seasonally? First year was a weekly 752? Then I think they did 2? Weekly A332s for maybe 1-2 NW seasons? Not a great time of year to go to the Islands though, better May-October not DEC-JAN.

Maybe a case for someone to fly LAX-RAR? But who, no one does APW/TBU-LAX, FJ do a weekly 738 APW-HNL where as a wide body can uplift freight which is important on those low frequency Island services.

The reception desk at the Edgewater Hotel had a big poster of the A330 for a period of time. A shame they were brought undone by the events of September 2001, having just taken over Royal and CanJet.

Air New Zealand operated a once-weekly LAX-RAR-AKL service up until the COVID-19 crisis. Hopefully it returns on the other side of this.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Why isn't Hawaiian flying to more pacific islands?

Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:46 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
This really has been the perennial problem in the Pacific, especially for smaller sized places such as the Cook Islands. It is difficult to get investment in hotels without knowing there will be air service, and difficult to grow air service without knowing there will be places for people to stay.

Canada 3000 tried to get into the Cook Islands market back in the late 1990s, and the infamous hotel at Vaimaanga was going to be completed in the back of the increase in capacity, but then the airline went belly up and the hotel project soon came to naught again.

V/F


I forgot about C3 into RAR I think they did 2-3 years seasonally? First year was a weekly 752? Then I think they did 2? Weekly A332s for maybe 1-2 NW seasons? Not a great time of year to go to the Islands though, better May-October not DEC-JAN.

Maybe a case for someone to fly LAX-RAR? But who, no one does APW/TBU-LAX, FJ do a weekly 738 APW-HNL where as a wide body can uplift freight which is important on those low frequency Island services.

The reception desk at the Edgewater Hotel had a big poster of the A330 for a period of time. A shame they were brought undone by the events of September 2001, having just taken over Royal and CanJet.

Air New Zealand operated a once-weekly LAX-RAR-AKL service up until the COVID-19 crisis. Hopefully it returns on the other side of this.

V/F


I should proofread better, I am aware NZ fly LAX-RAR, gotta admit I’m not overly confident it will come back despite the government top up to cover costs.

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