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Airbus747
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Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:09 am

After seeing a historical ad of the Kangaroo Route, and remembering how long distance passenger flight services started with small aircraft (for today's standards) doing multiple stopovers, I was wondering if there still is (or was, in the very recent past) anything comparable to that?

Especially in terms of a smaller/short/mid-range aircraft doing a long range flight incl. with multiple stopovers?

The only thing that comes to my mind is the British Airways A318 flight from London City to New York via Shannon.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:18 am

The UA Island Hopper comes to mind.
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Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
twaconnie
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:59 am

I think the A220 will be a real winner for the next couple of years.
 
JRadier
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:01 pm

A few interesting ones operated by OR (TUI Airlines Netherlands) on 737-800 in the past:
AMS-SID-FOR-NAT-SID-AMS (Brazil)
AMS-HRG-MBA-ZNZ-HRG-AMS (Kenya/Tanzania)
AMS-DXB-KTM-DXB-AMS (Nepal)

Travel Service also used to operate 737's (in various routings) from PRG to CUN, amongst others PRG-PDL-BDA-CUN vv
 
vaughanparry
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:33 pm

I seem to recall that Astraeus Airlines, who went under in 2011, at one time operated the longest non-stop B737 flight in the world to somewhere in Africa, possibly as a charter (so not a scheduled flight which your post calls for) oil workers. Please forgive my vague answer - I wish I could remember this more accurately - airline, type, route etc. - but I'm hoping that someone will have a better memory and a better handle on sources than me...
 
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:57 pm

United Airlines operated a DC-9-83 on DAC-DXB-IST-LGW as recently as 2009, which became LGW-IST-DXB-ZYL-DAC for a while on the return.
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mxaxai
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:59 pm

Not long distance in the stricter sense, but there are some airlines doing relatively long milk runs around the pacific islands with ATRs and other small aircraft. For example you could fly DPS-LBJ-ENE-KOE in Indonesia without ever getting off the aircraft.

Mongolian airline Hunnu Air flew ULN-SVX-CDG with an A319, briefly, in summer 2014. MIAT serves (served) ULN-SVO-TXL with 737-800 and 737 Max 8, although the A310 and 767 have been used on this route as well.
 
c933103
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:19 pm

Not particular small, but many freight airlines are still operating many of their services this way, like from multiple airports in America through Anchorage to multiple airports in Asia.
What's the different between Russian settlement in secessionist territories in Caucasus/Eastern Europe, and historical Western settlement in colonial Africa?
 
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:25 pm

PrivatAir used to do a cool route of FRA-PNQ (Pune, India) directly with an older 737 in wet lease for LH. Return flight always had a fuel stop in OTP or in Tbilisi. Half of the plane was business class, other half in Y. Was convenient to be able to skip the road trip from BOM to PNQ city.
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MD80
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:30 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
United Airlines operated a DC-9-83 on DAC-DXB-IST-LGW as recently as 2009, which became LGW-IST-DXB-ZYL-DAC for a while on the return.


The company was "United Airways", not United Airlines. Do you know the departure and arrival times of these routings?

Some MD-80-operators used their aircraft in the 1980s and 1990s on rather long routings nonstop or with fuel-stops, including many charter companies as well as scheduled carriers.

Regards
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Akwagon
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:35 pm

Fiji air. HNL to NAN 737 800 sometimes stop for fuel I believe in Samoa
Last edited by Akwagon on Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:41 pm

MD80 wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
United Airlines operated a DC-9-83 on DAC-DXB-IST-LGW as recently as 2009, which became LGW-IST-DXB-ZYL-DAC for a while on the return.


The company was "United Airways", not United Airlines. Do you know the departure and arrival times of these routings?


Ahh yes of course it is - brain fart there... I've been awake for too long!

Afraid I don't know the timings, I believe the routing changed depending on fuel prices and I think occasionally some other tech stops were needed which made it 3-5 stops in total.
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debonair
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:54 pm

JRadier wrote:
A few interesting ones operated by OR (TUI Airlines Netherlands) on 737-800 in the past:
AMS-SID-FOR-NAT-SID-AMS (Brazil)
AMS-HRG-MBA-ZNZ-HRG-AMS (Kenya/Tanzania)
AMS-DXB-KTM-DXB-AMS (Nepal)

Travel Service also used to operate 737's (in various routings) from PRG to CUN, amongst others PRG-PDL-BDA-CUN vv


Same for Corendon Dutch B737-800, flying as far as Brazil from AMS...
 
VSMUT
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:05 pm

c933103 wrote:
Not particular small, but many freight airlines are still operating many of their services this way, like from multiple airports in America through Anchorage to multiple airports in Asia.


There is nothing worse than starting you early morning flight out of CDG at 4AM, wanting nothing more at that time than to dive into bed, and having to stop in Stuttgart, Lyon or Frankfurt to drop off some cargo before heading off to your day stop. Those were absolute killers :hypnotized: :ill:

mxaxai wrote:
Not long distance in the stricter sense, but there are some airlines doing relatively long milk runs around the pacific islands with ATRs and other small aircraft. For example you could fly DPS-LBJ-ENE-KOE in Indonesia without ever getting off the aircraft.


Air Tahiti does this on a few routes.
 
Yflyer
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:15 pm

It looks like they don't fly it anymore, but in the relatively recent past Sun Country flew MSP-STN on a 738, with a stop in Gander.
 
Joelatbsl
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:47 pm

Privatair specialized on such routings, providing several other airlines the Boeing 737s or A319s needed for this. Take Gulf Air and KLM as examples:

 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:15 am

Paramount used to fly their MD83 LGW-SHJ-GOI.
Transwede used to fly their MD83 ARN-KEF-BGR-FLL
 
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MD80
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:33 am

Austrian Airlines also used their MD-87ERs on long routings to the Maldives and India with fuel stops. Even with the MD-81, they operated flights to Kenya with a fuel stop.
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blandy62
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:23 pm

Not a schedule flight but today in HongKong we had an Aegean A320 doing ATH-hkg and back with a tech stop in ALA
 
FlySSC
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:57 pm

French airlines « AIR LIBERTÉ » back in the late 90s used to operate ORY-MLE with a MD83 and two enroute stops : IST and DXB.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:27 pm

Wow.... looks like the MadDogs really pushed long haul flying to the limits...( via everywhere)
 
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:29 am

In 1957, one could fly on very long trips on Canadian Pacific Airlines. All on a DC-6B .....

CP301, AMS-YVR-HNL-NAN-AKL-SYD
CP402, HKG-HND-YVR-MEX-LIM-EZE
CP501, MEX-YYZ-YUL-LIS

Not mentioned in the timetable, but you KNOW, there were additional fuel/tech stops.
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zrs70
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:18 pm

Copa Airlines has pretty long legs on the 737.
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fi622
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Fri May 01, 2020 3:08 pm

Akwagon wrote:
Fiji air. HNL to NAN 737 800 sometimes stop for fuel I believe in Samoa


FJ operates NAN-APW-HNL and NAN-CXI-HNL on a B738. This is the only service that CXI sees outside of a few domestic flights to the Line Islands with Air Kiribati. The APW-NAN leg provides services to HNL, which compliments the PPG-HNL service on the HA A332.
 
leghorn
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Mon May 18, 2020 1:34 pm

https://www.lnc.nc/breve/french-bee-bat ... e-et-paris

This interests me - not a small aircraft because a smaller aircraft can't do it.
French Polynesia is sinking or rather sea levels are rising and these type routes aren't doing a jot of good for the long term survival prospects of these distant outposts.
Google says 180k inhabitants; if so Tourism will be the death of them.
 
grjplanes
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Mon May 18, 2020 2:00 pm

Not a regular scheduled flight...but this past weekend CemAir of South Africe did a repatriation flight, collecting stranded South Africans along the way through West Africa...all the way from Morocco to South Africa...routing CMN-NKC-OUA-ABJ-PNR-JNB, with CRJ900
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Mon May 18, 2020 5:10 pm

Surprised nobody mentioned the United Airlines island hopper route from Honolulu to Guam on a 737. HNL-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK-GUM.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Mon May 18, 2020 7:49 pm

leghorn wrote:
https://www.lnc.nc/breve/french-bee-bat-le-record-du-vol-le-plus-long-entre-papeete-et-paris

This interests me - not a small aircraft because a smaller aircraft can't do it.
French Polynesia is sinking or rather sea levels are rising and these type routes aren't doing a jot of good for the long term survival prospects of these distant outposts.
Google says 180k inhabitants; if so Tourism will be the death of them.


I'm not sure I get your point. Dropping flights to French Polynesia won't make enough of a difference to stop global warming and rising sea levels, and France doesn't have the clout to force the rest of the world to drop them either. The islands are also dependent on these flights for more than just tourists.
Not all of French Polynesia will disappear beneath the waves (at least not for the first million years). Some of the islands are pretty tall, such as Tahiti itself and the Marquesas islands.
 
leghorn
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Mon May 18, 2020 8:20 pm

VSMUT wrote:
leghorn wrote:
https://www.lnc.nc/breve/french-bee-bat-le-record-du-vol-le-plus-long-entre-papeete-et-paris

This interests me - not a small aircraft because a smaller aircraft can't do it.
French Polynesia is sinking or rather sea levels are rising and these type routes aren't doing a jot of good for the long term survival prospects of these distant outposts.
Google says 180k inhabitants; if so Tourism will be the death of them.


I'm not sure I get your point. Dropping flights to French Polynesia won't make enough of a difference to stop global warming and rising sea levels, and France doesn't have the clout to force the rest of the world to drop them either. The islands are also dependent on these flights for more than just tourists.
Not all of French Polynesia will disappear beneath the waves (at least not for the first million years). Some of the islands are pretty tall, such as Tahiti itself and the Marquesas islands.

when should an Airbus A350 be able make money serving a population of less than 200,000 people.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Mon May 18, 2020 10:26 pm

leghorn wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
leghorn wrote:
https://www.lnc.nc/breve/french-bee-bat-le-record-du-vol-le-plus-long-entre-papeete-et-paris

This interests me - not a small aircraft because a smaller aircraft can't do it.
French Polynesia is sinking or rather sea levels are rising and these type routes aren't doing a jot of good for the long term survival prospects of these distant outposts.
Google says 180k inhabitants; if so Tourism will be the death of them.


I'm not sure I get your point. Dropping flights to French Polynesia won't make enough of a difference to stop global warming and rising sea levels, and France doesn't have the clout to force the rest of the world to drop them either. The islands are also dependent on these flights for more than just tourists.
Not all of French Polynesia will disappear beneath the waves (at least not for the first million years). Some of the islands are pretty tall, such as Tahiti itself and the Marquesas islands.

when should an Airbus A350 be able make money serving a population of less than 200,000 people.


Not everything is about making money. Essential air services and all that. AFAIK, it is Air Tahiti Nui's job to transport patients to and from France for complicated medical treatment. There is cargo that needs to be transported to the islands. If a ferry breaks down, you can't wait 2 months for the next cargo boat to arrive with spares. They also export a lot of fish BTW.

Smaller aircraft wouldn't do, as this crisis has demonstrated, they need to have an aircraft that doesn't rely on stopping in 3rd part nations that would shut them out.
 
Joelatbsl
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue May 19, 2020 12:07 am

The Canary Islands being very popular amongst Nordic travellers, this sometimes leads to narrowbody aircraft getting pushed to their limits and beyond. A flight from Gran Canaria or Tenerife to Northern Finland or Norway can easily exceed six hours and depending on the wind, there may be fuel stops necessary. Last winter saw a new operator from Denmark on the scene, in Great Dane Airlines, using former flybe EMB-195s. Fuel stops were required on the way from Aalborg to Tenerife, usually in Faro.
 
leghorn
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue May 19, 2020 1:38 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Not everything is about making money. Essential air services and all that. AFAIK, it is Air Tahiti Nui's job to transport patients to and from France for complicated medical treatment. There is cargo that needs to be transported to the islands. If a ferry breaks down, you can't wait 2 months for the next cargo boat to arrive with spares. They also export a lot of fish BTW.

Smaller aircraft wouldn't do, as this crisis has demonstrated, they need to have an aircraft that doesn't rely on stopping in 3rd part nations that would shut them out.

Last time I looked there were plenty of first world nations nearer to Tahiti than France with first world medical systems.
Should fish be transported half way around the world? Should Kiwi? The Kiwi I get come from the far side of the Alps which is a bit closer and then only when in season.
Countries like Russia have shown that overfly rights or suspension of same don't discriminate on the basis of aircraft size.
Direct flights from a small population centre almost literally half-way around the globe are indefensible.

Here they are flying over a Continent to get to another Continent.

There be plenty of time when they are floating adrift on a raft in the south pacific in the future to explain to their kids that "everybody was doing the same" so why not we.

This isn't me virtue signalling. I can't stand when people do that on a forum. This flight is just indefensible and will be used as an edge case to by Eco-warriors to justify depriving people of legitimate freedoms which they have come to enjoy elsewhere in the world.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue May 19, 2020 4:36 pm

leghorn wrote:
Last time I looked there were plenty of first world nations nearer to Tahiti than France with first world medical systems.


None of which are French or have an obligation to treat French citizens. French Polynesia is part of France, and that is who has an obligation to treat them. Australia, the US and Canada do not have any obligations to do any sort of treatment. We are right in the middle of a health crisis where several of those countries shut their borders, providing the perfect example of why this particular case justifies an air link. Trump openly talked about buying a promising pharmaceutical company and restricting the vaccines use to US citizens, and you are suggesting France should rely on the US to treat its citizens?


leghorn wrote:
Countries like Russia have shown that overfly rights or suspension of same don't discriminate on the basis of aircraft size.


Russia is in a unique position due to geography, and yet airlines didn't have to halt flights, they were still able to find alternate routings. If Trump decides to block US airspace to French aircraft, Tahiti flights can still continue via Canada or several central and south american countries. Worst case, they could still go the long way around.


leghorn wrote:
Direct flights from a small population centre almost literally half-way around the globe are indefensible.


Let me correct that for you:
Direct flights to a small population centre almost literally half-way around the globe to lie on a beach is indefensible.


leghorn wrote:
There be plenty of time when they are floating adrift on a raft in the south pacific in the future to explain to their kids that "everybody was doing the same" so why not we.

This isn't me virtue signalling. I can't stand when people do that on a forum. This flight is just indefensible and will be used as an edge case to by Eco-warriors to justify depriving people of legitimate freedoms which they have come to enjoy elsewhere in the world.


?

Virtue signalling is exactly what you are doing, by picking on an essential airlink to a farflung territory of a country. These links exist in other places too, such as Greenland, the Faeroe Islands, Svalbard, St. Helena, the Falkland Islands, Siberia, St. Pierre and Miquelon and most of the Australian bush. As long as people live there, the state has a responsibility to provide basic services to them, which means sending an appropriately fast means of transport.

If you want to prevent eco-warriors from ruining aviation, focus on cheap budget holidays (which French Bee are definitely part of, but not Air Tahiti Nui). That's the real low-hanging fruit. Flying from Europe to Thailand to spend 2 weeks on a beach, that is indefensible. Likewise is getting on a cheap Ryanair flight to go on an extended weekend in the next country over 6 times a year, especially when electric high speed trains and motorways are available. As far as I'm aware, French Polynesia already took steps to reduce mass tourism almost 20 years ago, by limiting hotels.
 
leghorn
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Tue May 19, 2020 5:25 pm

I have touched a nerve there and you are tying yourself up in knots to defend the indefensible.. You really are struggling to defend this Island which can't be maintained as an overseas territory of France.

Firstly US isn't the nearest first world country so lets get that strawman knocked down down first.
An A350's fuel tanks worth of Aviation Fuel goes a long way toward paying for medical treatment or perhaps increasing the quality of local medical coverage.

A duty to Citizens where one exists doesn't need to be satisfied in the manner you proscribe.

A LCC flight of less than a thousand kilometers would need to be taken much more than 6 times before it comes close to the amount of fuel burnt on that trip. On that flight the fuel is being burnt to carry the fuel which is being burnt continuously during the flight.

Is there an A350 flying to Falkland Islands. It isn't a tourist destination either.

No, try to dress it up any way you like and no matter how you insult those who point it out...that route is indefensible.
 
klm617
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Sun May 31, 2020 12:50 am

Akwagon wrote:
Fiji air. HNL to NAN 737 800 sometimes stop for fuel I believe in Samoa


This flight was routed YVR-HNL-NAN
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Sun May 31, 2020 1:41 am

klm617 wrote:
Akwagon wrote:
Fiji air. HNL to NAN 737 800 sometimes stop for fuel I believe in Samoa


This flight was routed YVR-HNL-NAN


Well it was, it still operates NAN-HNL, APW is a scheduled stop once weekly given it’s the only service to the US from APW.

I did think pre covid I wonder if FJ would look at NAN-YVR on an A330.
 
Toenga
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Sun May 31, 2020 3:29 am

[/quote]
Last time I looked there were plenty of first world nations nearer to Tahiti than France with first world medical systems.
[/quote]

Actually New Zealand is contracted to supply some specialist hospital care, to French Polynesian residents. Still a reasonable length flight though.
 
Fuling
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Sun May 31, 2020 4:57 am

SK used to operate a B737-700ER from OSL to IAH via SVG (Stavanger, Norway). IIRC SVG-IAH was 10h 05m and configured with 20J and 66Y.
 
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A333MSPtoAMS
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:13 am

Not scheduled service but Sun Country Airlines flew proving flights from MSP-CDG via Halifax or Gander and also to LGW back in the early 2000's. They were selling flights for passengers for about $300 RT. The flight left one day and came back 4-5 days later. I think it was a 48 - 72 hr between arrival and return
As of Dec 2019 I've flown 457,440 miles on 270 flights on 54 airplane types with 60 airlines traveling thru 104 airports. I've visited 60 countries.
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flyingdoc787
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:45 am

For a short time, PR operated an A321 (or maybe even an A320) MNL-DRW-PER.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:32 am

flyingdoc787 wrote:
For a short time, PR operated an A321 (or maybe even an A320) MNL-DRW-PER.


Good point they also ran MNL-CNS-AKL on an A320 for a while.
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:58 am

TUGMASTER wrote:
Paramount used to fly their MD83 LGW-SHJ-GOI.

LGW-SHJ direct seems a little far for a MD..

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Surprised nobody mentioned the United Airlines island hopper route from Honolulu to Guam on a 737. HNL-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK-GUM.

2nd comment in this post ;-)

PlymSpotter wrote:
United Airlines operated a DC-9-83 on DAC-DXB-IST-LGW as recently as 2009, which became LGW-IST-DXB-ZYL-DAC for a while on the return.

I seriously regret not booking this!

If i could go back in time one of the few flights I wish i could have flown on was the Sterling Caravelle, Belfast-Toronto, with fuel stop and 5 course meal at KEF..back in the days when flying had a level of decadence hehe.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Scheduled long distance routes with small aircraft (incl stopovers)?

Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:21 pm

opticalilyushin wrote:
TUGMASTER wrote:
Paramount used to fly their MD83 LGW-SHJ-GOI.

LGW-SHJ direct seems a little far for a MD..


Now you come to mention it... it does seem a bit of a stretch... think the Max was about 2500 mile out of a Mad Dog....
Can’t remember where else it stopped tho’...Suee someone can remember.

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