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D L X
Topic Author
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:29 pm

This is going to be the new normal for a while. AA will offer masks to fliers beginning this weekend, while B6 will require them beginning next week.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... oom_Alerts


http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=68480

The question I have is, where is AA getting all these masks and hand sanitizer from? Incredible job sourcing, if they pull it off. I mean, I might book a flight just to get some hand sanitizer!
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 585
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:48 pm

Most of these masks are cheap and flimsy. I doubt they'd protect you from much of anything. This is a PR stunt. The free masks will be gone within 30 days.
 
VS11
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:51 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Most of these masks are cheap and flimsy. I doubt they'd protect you from much of anything. This is a PR stunt. The free masks will be gone within 30 days.


Masks are not to protect you but other people from you.
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:53 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Most of these masks are cheap and flimsy. I doubt they'd protect you from much of anything. This is a PR stunt. The free masks will be gone within 30 days.


I think UAL/DL will follow what AA did. For now let those who want to wear them wear them. B6 step is bold and I am not sure it’ll be effective. There’s a chart somewhere online that will show you how effective various coverings are. N95 is almost 100%. Other surgical type masks are around 60-70%. Everything else below that is 15-45% roughly
 
VS11
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:54 pm

D L X wrote:
This is going to be the new normal for a while. AA will offer masks to fliers beginning this weekend, while B6 will require them beginning next week.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... oom_Alerts


http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=68480

The question I have is, where is AA getting all these masks and hand sanitizer from? Incredible job sourcing, if they pull it off. I mean, I might book a flight just to get some hand sanitizer!


Should have been done long time ago. Could have saved a few billions by minimizing the unnecessary hysteria.
 
zuckie13
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:54 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Most of these masks are cheap and flimsy. I doubt they'd protect you from much of anything. This is a PR stunt. The free masks will be gone within 30 days.


While you are right that these are certainly not the N95 masks that provide nearly full protection the concept of having everyone wear even these cheaper masks does actually make a big difference. These mask protect by blocking/slowing down what comes out of the person wearing them which helps limit transmission. A drop that may have flown 10 feet unabated now will get either stopped or will travel much less after being slowed by the mask.

That is assuming people wear them right. I hat seeing pictures of people wearing a mask wit their nose hanging out...
 
D L X
Topic Author
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:57 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Most of these masks are cheap and flimsy. I doubt they'd protect you from much of anything. This is a PR stunt. The free masks will be gone within 30 days.


While you are right that these are certainly not the N95 masks that provide nearly full protection the concept of having everyone wear even these cheaper masks does actually make a big difference. These mask protect by blocking/slowing down what comes out of the person wearing them which helps limit transmission. A drop that may have flown 10 feet unabated now will get either stopped or will travel much less after being slowed by the mask.

That is assuming people wear them right. I hat seeing pictures of people wearing a mask wit their nose hanging out...


Or worse, on their chins.

The point needs to be driven home: the masks are to protect others from you. You want to be in an environment where everyone else is wearing a mask -- and that means that you have to wear one so that everyone around you is also in an environment where everyone is wearing a mask.

With that said, I'm still not ready to take a 5 hour flight. That's a lot of time in an enclosed space. Reducing transmission from 90% per minute to 2% per minute (numbers made up for effect) doesn't mean much if you're spending 300 minutes next to someone.
 
Exyxy
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:44 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:09 pm

Right now you’re not going to be next to anybody, probably no one in the front and back row.
 
D L X
Topic Author
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:13 pm

Exyxy wrote:
Right now you’re not going to be next to anybody, probably no one in the front and back row.

You'd think, but apparently, planes are surprisingly full. They've dropped capacity so low that the small amount of flights are beginning to match the small amount of passengers.

https://onemileatatime.com/full-flight-outrage/
 
nickpo
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:36 pm

D L X wrote:
The question I have is, where is AA getting all these masks and hand sanitizer from? Incredible job sourcing, if they pull it off. I mean, I might book a flight just to get some hand sanitizer!


Well... they've been doing a bunch of cargo flights to China. Probably they pick some of the loads for them to use, China is the one producing the most and where all of the countries are sending flights to pick up clinical materials.

I think is a very good idea, one of those cheapy masks during the first hour or two of use, are not that bad. The only mistake is that they took long to implement the idea, is something that needed to be done several weeks ago.
LatinAirliner
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7773
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:42 pm

D L X wrote:
Exyxy wrote:
Right now you’re not going to be next to anybody, probably no one in the front and back row.

You'd think, but apparently, planes are surprisingly full. They've dropped capacity so low that the small amount of flights are beginning to match the small amount of passengers.

https://onemileatatime.com/full-flight-outrage/


There may be some relatively full flights but WN just reported a ~20% load factor for the second half of March, is projecting a 6% load factor for April, and 5-10% for May.

Data beat anecdotes. One Click-bait Title at a Time

http://www.southwestairlinesinvestorrel ... -110107839
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:45 pm

I love this item in the B6 release:

Small children who are not able to maintain a face covering are exempt from this requirement.

This is brilliant given how small children are petri dishes writ large.

That being said...this should have been done weeks & weeks ago based on common sense; there should have been NO need to wait for CDC or any other organization to come out with anything saying it should be done.
Last edited by cathay747 on Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3533
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:48 pm

zuckie13 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Most of these masks are cheap and flimsy. I doubt they'd protect you from much of anything. This is a PR stunt. The free masks will be gone within 30 days.


While you are right that these are certainly not the N95 masks that provide nearly full protection the concept of having everyone wear even these cheaper masks does actually make a big difference. These mask protect by blocking/slowing down what comes out of the person wearing them which helps limit transmission. A drop that may have flown 10 feet unabated now will get either stopped or will travel much less after being slowed by the mask.

That is assuming people wear them right. I hat seeing pictures of people wearing a mask wit their nose hanging out...


That's where the cabin crew can enforce this, unless a customer is actively in the act of consuming food or beverages.

To that end, why don't airlines with a BOB program install vending machines for other goods aboard aircraft? Less things for cabin crew to handle.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14425
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:23 pm

D L X wrote:
zuckie13 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Most of these masks are cheap and flimsy. I doubt they'd protect you from much of anything. This is a PR stunt. The free masks will be gone within 30 days.


While you are right that these are certainly not the N95 masks that provide nearly full protection the concept of having everyone wear even these cheaper masks does actually make a big difference. These mask protect by blocking/slowing down what comes out of the person wearing them which helps limit transmission. A drop that may have flown 10 feet unabated now will get either stopped or will travel much less after being slowed by the mask.

That is assuming people wear them right. I hat seeing pictures of people wearing a mask wit their nose hanging out...


Or worse, on their chins.

The point needs to be driven home: the masks are to protect others from you. You want to be in an environment where everyone else is wearing a mask -- and that means that you have to wear one so that everyone around you is also in an environment where everyone is wearing a mask.

With that said, I'm still not ready to take a 5 hour flight. That's a lot of time in an enclosed space. Reducing transmission from 90% per minute to 2% per minute (numbers made up for effect) doesn't mean much if you're spending 300 minutes next to someone.


I'm all for mask wearing in the airport. But on the airplane and once the packs are on, I'm not sure how much transmission actually occurs. Is there evidence of airborne transmission on airplanes?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Exyxy
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:44 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:29 pm

It could be that nyc flights are fairly full because of the drastic reductions out the 3 airports.
 
D L X
Topic Author
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:40 pm

Cubsrule wrote:

I'm all for mask wearing in the airport. But on the airplane and once the packs are on, I'm not sure how much transmission actually occurs. Is there evidence of airborne transmission on airplanes?


We are in an evidence desert for COVID-19 information, but we do know that illnesses transmit on planes historically. Our technology has improved greatly, such that the guy at the back of the plane might not infect the guy at the front, and vice versa, but there are a whole lot of people that will be within 6 feet of you on a plane for a long period of time.

There's a study behind a paywall here:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... n-a-plane/
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14425
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:45 pm

D L X wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I'm all for mask wearing in the airport. But on the airplane and once the packs are on, I'm not sure how much transmission actually occurs. Is there evidence of airborne transmission on airplanes?


We are in an evidence desert for COVID-19 information, but we do know that illnesses transmit on planes historically. Our technology has improved greatly, such that the guy at the back of the plane might not infect the guy at the front, and vice versa, but there are a whole lot of people that will be within 6 feet of you on a plane for a long period of time.

There's a study behind a paywall here:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... n-a-plane/


Surface transmission is a big problem on airplanes and in general; I'm not so sure about airborne transmission.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4244
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:32 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
To that end, why don't airlines with a BOB program install vending machines for other goods aboard aircraft? Less things for cabin crew to handle.


Because having 100 people mingling about in the aisles is a bigger risk than everybody staying in their seats and having the stuff brought to them.

But a BOB program where you order via the PTV system is not a bad idea. Cabin crew will only have to come out to those who specifically order something. Doesn't Norwegian do this on the 787?
 
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cathay747
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: AA hands out masks. B6 requires them.

Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:26 pm

D L X wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

I'm all for mask wearing in the airport. But on the airplane and once the packs are on, I'm not sure how much transmission actually occurs. Is there evidence of airborne transmission on airplanes?


We are in an evidence desert for COVID-19 information, but we do know that illnesses transmit on planes historically. Our technology has improved greatly, such that the guy at the back of the plane might not infect the guy at the front, and vice versa, but there are a whole lot of people that will be within 6 feet of you on a plane for a long period of time.

There's a study behind a paywall here:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... n-a-plane/


Exactly. A couple of times in my past, and many times with co-workers, some type of "upper respiratory illness" has hit a few days after coming home from a trip with the usual raised-eyebrows from the employer of course with having to take sick-time right after coming back from vacation.
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