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leghorn
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Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Tue May 05, 2020 10:49 pm

I would.
I'd do a 400km trip in a car in preference to using the plane. The hassle of COVID-19 would be enough to swing it where as previously that distance would be the point where I'd be thinking it is easier and faster just to take the plane.
These are the sort of routes which I think will suffer in the near future during the early stages of loosening of restrictions.
 
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DL747400
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Tue May 05, 2020 10:59 pm

You are not alone. A great many people are going to reach the same conclusion, joining those who already have.

Short haul air travel has taken another massive blow from COVID, the other being 9/11. In regions and city pairs where reliable passenger rail service exists, the economics have changed (again). Airlines will lose short haul market share to rail, just as they did after 9/11.

Nonstop short haul will be hit the hardest. That's really bad news financially because nonstop short hauls generate some of the highest revenues for airlines, especially in markets where there is little or no competition or involve slot-controlled airports. Connecting short haul will also suffer, but likely less over time as connecting traffic flows are reestablished and demand slowly begins to return.
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leghorn
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Tue May 05, 2020 11:13 pm

Air France's strings attached financial aid isn't going to hurt them too much since many people weren't going to use those short routes which the French Government has demanded that they end.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Tue May 05, 2020 11:16 pm

leghorn wrote:
I would.
I'd do a 400km trip in a car in preference to using the plane. The hassle of COVID-19 would be enough to swing it where as previously that distance would be the point where I'd be thinking it is easier and faster just to take the plane.
These are the sort of routes which I think will suffer in the near future during the early stages of loosening of restrictions.

A 400-km trip is basically shy over 3 hours in Europe (assuming you're talking about Europe since you're mentioning km); since you're supposed to be at the airport 1 hour prior to your flight, flight time, disembarking, getting out of the airport, etc, you were already spending that much time anyway.
Short-hops like that were already rarely flown for and by themselves in Europe before COVID-19; they were mainly flown for connecting flights (and those aren't getting away) or because of natural terrain that prevented quick car trip (such as, mountains or bodies of water). For the latter, COVID-19 won't kill the short hops.

TL,DR: I doubt much will change just due to COVID-19 on 400-km trips.
 
leghorn
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Tue May 05, 2020 11:19 pm

Even with Autobahns 400km is closer to 4hours as the roads are very congested.
Getting around cities on the motorway network in most of western Europe slows things down.
 
Aither
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Tue May 05, 2020 11:27 pm

If you are in India no.
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L0VE2FLY
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Tue May 05, 2020 11:36 pm

Until this nightmare is over, I'd rather drive 2000 km than take the plane. It's not just airlines, all public transportation will suffer due to COVID-19, you can never get infected inside your car which is not the case with planes, trains, etc...


DL747400 wrote:
Nonstop short haul will be hit the hardest.


The almost-nonexistent connecting short haul will be hit even harder! :yes:

WayexTDI wrote:
leghorn wrote:
I would.
I'd do a 400km trip in a car in preference to using the plane. The hassle of COVID-19 would be enough to swing it where as previously that distance would be the point where I'd be thinking it is easier and faster just to take the plane.
These are the sort of routes which I think will suffer in the near future during the early stages of loosening of restrictions.

A 400-km trip is basically shy over 3 hours in Europe (assuming you're talking about Europe since you're mentioning km)


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prebennorholm
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 12:51 am

leghorn wrote:
The hassle of COVID-19 would be enough to swing it where as previously that distance would be the point where I'd be thinking it is easier and faster just to take the plane.

COVID may also offer advantages in the future. For instance related to reclineable seats.

Just sneeze once, and you can be 200% sure that the seat in front doesn't suddenly slam down on your lap and crush your knees.

Tall people (6+ ft) will appreciate such a vast improvement of air travel. It may even make your 400 km air trip equally safe as going by car.
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Kent350787
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 12:56 am

For me, 4hrs in the car is around where i make the call. SYD to CBR is 50mins block time, but would normally not be worth flying over the 3.5hr drive
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lightsaber
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 2:59 am

I live in California. Congestion at the airports and TSA already had me driving routes I previously flew. Covid19 will increase the radius significantly.
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continental004
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 3:30 am

What about those who don't drive? what about them? There is never any discussion about any long-distance bus or train travel in lieu of flying.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 1:07 pm

Everybody that has a car assumes everybody has a car.
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airbazar
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 1:19 pm

leghorn wrote:
I would.
I'd do a 400km trip in a car in preference to using the plane. The hassle of COVID-19 would be enough to swing it where as previously that distance would be the point where I'd be thinking it is easier and faster just to take the plane.
These are the sort of routes which I think will suffer in the near future during the early stages of loosening of restrictions.

400km is nothing. That's less than Boston to Philadelphia and I've done that many times by car. Loads of people drive from the northeast U.S. to Florida and back for a 1 week vacation. That's 2,000Km each way.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 1:53 pm

And Boston to Phillie is probably the worst imaginable drive in the US except for some LA trips.
 
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 2:46 pm

DL747400 wrote:
In regions and city pairs where reliable passenger rail service exists, the economics have changed (again). Airlines will lose short haul market share to rail, just as they did after 9/11.


From a UK perspective, I am not so sure. All public transport is taking a hit, not just aviation.

Even very early on in the outbreak, several of my family and friends in the UK and Europe were instructed by their companies to avoid all public transport when travelling. That meant driving, or more often for those in the UK, not travelling at all, as both ferries and the channel tunnel were still considered public transport.
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airhansa
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 4:05 pm

A lot of countries in Europe and Asia don't have populations where everyone owns a car, in younger demographics it could easily be that most people don't own a car. But most people in Europe and East Asia don't fly short haul trips except to get over bodies of water.

PlymSpotter wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
In regions and city pairs where reliable passenger rail service exists, the economics have changed (again). Airlines will lose short haul market share to rail, just as they did after 9/11.


From a UK perspective, I am not so sure. All public transport is taking a hit, not just aviation.

Even very early on in the outbreak, several of my family and friends in the UK and Europe were instructed by their companies to avoid all public transport when travelling. That meant driving, or more often for those in the UK, not travelling at all, as both ferries and the channel tunnel were still considered public transport.


This is the big difference between East Asia and the West. Asians have a lot of history with SARS and MERS, including knowing that the aftermath was generally safe, so they're more willing to travel quickly after the pandemic subsides. Rail is generally more roomy than planes, with more stops and breathing space, so it will likely win against planes and buses. But air travel will likely not be hit as badly as in the West for the same reasons. There's more chance of a westerner spreading the disease in an Asian airport than a Chinese person.
 
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falstaff
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 4:58 pm

400km is not a long distance. I would have never considered flying that short of a distance unless it was to fly on some kind of aircraft I hadn't flown on before.

I generally consider air travel for anything over 500 miles. I take into consideration how long I'm going to be at the destination and will I need my car there. I travel to St. Louis a lot to visit my parents. If I going for a weekend I'll fly, but if I go for a week I'll drive. I drove to New York City in February, from Detroit, for a few days, but I needed my truck to haul something there for a friend and to a bring a bunch of beer back.

If I travel to Chicago from Detroit I'll take the train. Business class is priced well and it's isolated from the rest of the train. The train takes me right downtown where the airplane doesn't.

This year I may not fly at all. Most of that decision has already been made for me because my two international trips have been cancelled and an event I planned to fly to, in the US, has been cancelled. I don't really have the need to go anywhere. Next year I still plan to go to Europe twice, but we'll see how that turns out when the time comes. I usually take a week long round about overnight train trip in the US or Canada every year too, but considering lots of things are closed there is no point of traveling for sightseeing purposes either.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 pm

continental004 wrote:
What about those who don't drive? what about them? There is never any discussion about any long-distance bus or train travel in lieu of flying.


Not in the U.S., no, because outside of the Northeast Corridor those routes that have time-efficient bus or train travel alternatives represent a vanishingly small fraction of plane trips. San Francisco/Oakland to Seattle in 22 hours, once a day, vs. 2:10 on a plane? No thanks.
 
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Thu May 07, 2020 6:30 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
And Boston to Phillie is probably the worst imaginable drive in the US except for some LA trips.

Done the Philly to Boston drive before and yeah it sucks. Would take rail next time.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Thu May 07, 2020 6:39 am

leghorn wrote:
Even with Autobahns 400km is closer to 4hours as the roads are very congested.
Getting around cities on the motorway network in most of western Europe slows things down.


Yesterday was the first time i went to a customer in two month... streets are not empty, but 400km of Highway can easily be done in 3 hours without ever going faster than 150, aside of construction and other speed limits there isn't much slowing you down right now.

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CV990A
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Thu May 07, 2020 1:27 pm

I drove DC-Boston once and after I got home I swore I'd never complain about the cost of airfare again!

I regularly travel DC-NY, and have driven, flown, and taken the train and driving is by far my preferred method - especially since I'm not staying in the city proper.

My fly vs. drive pain threshold is about 800km - and that's usually my decision as I am not a fan of train travel.
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UALFAson
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Sat May 09, 2020 12:49 am

I think the bigger and more important question is HOW MUCH LONGER would you now be willing to drive to avoid flying.

Case in point: from where I live now (Nashville--BNA) to my family in Washington, D.C. is about 1:30 flying or 10-11 hours driving each way. I haven't driven that in probably 6 years since I finished grad school but flew it every 1-2 months the past several years. I'm thinking of planning a trip home next month assuming cases don't spike. I am torn between the isolation provided by driving versus the speed but potential increased risk of flying. That's a question I never would have asked the past 5-6 years.

The further people are willing to drive to avoid planes, the worse the recovery for airlines will be.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Sat May 09, 2020 2:39 am

If the price is under $150 for a nonstop short haul I'll still fly.

I'm looking at LEX-DTW in September if Basic Economy is about $150 I'd do it.

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Insertnamehere
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Sat May 09, 2020 4:48 am

Albeit I don't own a car as I live in a large city with relatively (by US standards) public transport options. But still, some trips make more sense flying. I fly for both work and family quite regularly between New York and Columbus Ohio. This is only a 9 hours drive, but considering there are a plethora of flights (well used to be, now there is none) that means I can even theoretically wake up in New York, fly to Columbus, and fly back to new york to go to bed, what's the point in driving? I think many people will make the same decision, especially business travelers.

For tourist purposes, that's a different story, Americans already don't travel much internationally, after all the rate of Americans with a passport is far lower than European countries. I don't see Americans driving either so I think travel will become something limited for the rest of the year. Going forward? Who knows. Its completely dependant on how the Economy goes.
 
DFW17L
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Sat May 09, 2020 6:58 pm

Depends who’s driving. Probably not with Rex Kramer.

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geologyrocks
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Re: Would you spend an additional hour in a car to avoid COVID-19 hassle?

Sun May 10, 2020 2:17 pm

For me, as it relates to COVID, would be entirely on if I could make the trip within a reasonable day. I don't think getting on an airplane is the end of the world and I certainly would rather get on an airplane before I make a long road trip that would involve multiple stops or worse, a hotel stay along the way.

Atlanta to Orlando...okay, I can drive that. Atlanta to Boston...forget about it, when is the next flight?

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