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x1234
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DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:20 pm

I heard there was a Delta Asia hub in Portland in the 1980's because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop. I found this online: https://www.weninchina.com/transpac-pio ... n-portland

As they say history repeats itself and DL is recreating the hub in Seattle now.
Last edited by x1234 on Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ZazuPIT
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:32 pm

x1234 wrote:
I heard there was a Delta Asia hub in Portland in the 1980's because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop. I found this online: https://www.weninchina.com/transpac-pio ... n-portland

As they say history repeats itself and DL is recreating the hub in Seattle now.


Apples and oranges. The PDX hub had virtually no connections aside from other DL hubs. They have/had a robust domestic product in SEA.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:53 pm

x1234 wrote:
I heard there was a Delta Asia hub in Portland in the 1980's because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop. I found this online: https://www.weninchina.com/transpac-pio ... n-portland

As they say history repeats itself and DL is recreating the hub in Seattle now.


Seattle has a lot more business traveler potential and Portland was opened at a time where US airlines were into the idea of these connecting hubs or gateways without much O&D traffic. Republic then NW at MEM, AA at RDU, BNA and SJC (AA always had a Nashville presence but made it into a hub), etc. Even Western's move from Denver to Salt Lake before Delta bought them was a case of this.

Flights to Japan lasted until about 2000 I want to say but Seoul, Taipei, etc I do not think lasted that long, but I could be wrong.

Also Hong Kong was flown from LAX via Anchorage at the time.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:05 am

x1234 wrote:
I heard there was a Delta Asia hub in Portland in the 1980's

Yes they did. There's tons of past posts here about it. May wish to read those when this one is inevitably locked.


x1234 wrote:
because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop.

...except that DL flew nonstop ATL-NRT with MD11s for years on end.

In fact, its eastbound was their last ever scheduled MD11 flight, in 2004.


x1234 wrote:
As they say history repeats itself and DL is recreating the hub in Seattle now.

What do you believe that one has to do with the other?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
flyinghippo
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:32 am

Technically, DL never had a hub in SEA until about 4 years go, so DL is not re-creating another hub. NW had a hub in SEA. DL back in the 1980s did not want to compete with NW in SEA, so they established a gateway for Asia destinations in PDX.
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:44 am

x1234 wrote:
I heard there was a Delta Asia hub in Portland in the 1980's because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop. I found this online: https://www.weninchina.com/transpac-pio ... n-portland

As they say history repeats itself and DL is recreating the hub in Seattle now.


The MD11 had nothing to do with it. It was the L15. The MD11s didn’t come until later. What’s the point?
 
n9801f
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:51 am

LAX772LR wrote:
x1234 wrote:
because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop.

...except that DL flew nonstop ATL-NRT with MD11s for years on end.


Maybe so. But didn’t the MD-11 range increase post-delivery due to McDoDo PIP’s?

Could the pre-PIP MD-11 make ATL-NRT?
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:36 am

First off, Delta didn't fly md11s in the 1980s and I think the final md11 revenue flight was from NRT to ATL. The MD-11 has a range of like, 12,000km and NRT to ATL is like 11,000km.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:43 am

x1234 wrote:
I heard there was a Delta Asia hub in Portland in the 1980's because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop. I found this online: https://www.weninchina.com/transpac-pio ... n-portland

As they say history repeats itself and DL is recreating the hub in Seattle now.


The PDX hub had nothing to do with the MD11 and the range. DL flew the MD11 from ATL-NRT nonstop almost until the type was withdrawn from service. The issue was the L1011 which did not have the range to fly from ATL to NRT. After a US-Japan bilateral air treaty was negotiated, Delta launched L1011 service from PDX to NRT and thus began the evolution of the DL TPAC gateway at PDX. The MD11 was not yet in service at the time and DL lacked a plane that could fly TPAC from its larger hubs. The same year, AA launched DFW-NRT and bought 2 747SPs from TWA to fly the route. In 1987, DL added PDX-SEL. Delta would later add Nagoya, Fukuoka from PDX. These flights did not all operate simultaneously but were added between 1986 and 2001. Taipei and Bangkok were added too as tags from the SEL service (TPE was also I think for a time flown nonstop).

Delta invested in the PDX operation and built a larger Crown Room club. The operation was profitable for Delta, and viable, until the Asian Financial Crisis in 1998. NRT and Nagoya were the last two routes in 2001 when the aftermath of 9/11 resulted in the hub being closed down. Delta in 2001 closed a 300 flight attendant base there and eliminated most flights from PDX except to hubs in ATL, CVG, and SLC.
Last edited by Cointrin330 on Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
simairlinenet
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:43 am

Here's a good article on the gateway. I thought there was another detailed one online, but can't find it: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2011/10 ... uest-blog/
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:47 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
I heard there was a Delta Asia hub in Portland in the 1980's because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop. I found this online: https://www.weninchina.com/transpac-pio ... n-portland

As they say history repeats itself and DL is recreating the hub in Seattle now.


The PDX hub had nothing to do with the MD11 and the range. DL flew the MD11 from ATL-NRT nonstop almost until the type was withdrawn from service. The issue was the L1011 which did not have the range to fly from ATL to NRT. After a US-Japan bilateral air treaty was negotiated, Delta launched L1011 service from PDX to NRT and thus began the evolution of the DL TPAC gateway at PDX. The MD11 was not yet in service at the time and DL lacked a plane that could fly TPAC from its larger hubs. The same year, AA launched DFW-NRT and bought 2 747SPs from TWA to fly the route. In 1987, DL added PDX-SEL. Delta would later add Nagoya, Fukuoka from PDX. These flights did not all operate simultaneously but were added between 1986 and 2001. Taipei and Bangkok were added too as tags from the SEL service (TPE was also I think for a time flown nonstop).

Delta invested in the PDX operation and built a larger Crown Room club. The operation was profitable for Delta, and viable, until the Asian Financial Crisis in 1998. NRT and Nagoya were the last two routes in 2001 when the aftermath of 9/11 resulted in the hub being closed down. Delta in 2001 closed a 300 flight attendant base there and eliminated most flights from PDX except to hubs in ATL, CVG, and SLC. It has since rebuilt PDX, though not to a hub or focus city. Delta inherited the NW route from PDX to NRT which was started several years later.
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:52 am

Correcting my above post. TPE was an extension / tag route. It was not flown nonstop from PDX on Delta.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:36 am

n9801f wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
x1234 wrote:
because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop.

...except that DL flew nonstop ATL-NRT with MD11s for years on end.


Maybe so. But didn’t the MD-11 range increase post-delivery due to McDoDo PIP’s?

Could the pre-PIP MD-11 make ATL-NRT?

Yes and Yes.

The PIP that you're referring to was a modified trailing edge, wingtip wedge, and auxiliary fuel tank. Only two aircraft had them in full, and they were meant to allow a roundtrip LAX-HKG nonstop... which DL only flew for about a year, circa 1995.

Nothing really to do with ATL-NRT.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
n9801f
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:28 am

I see, thank you.

The L15 mentioned above (shortened fuselage L10) sounds like it might have high seat-mile costs, especially if they used a 3-class configuration.

Between the CASM, the small point-to-point market, and post-bubble Japanese economy you can imagine the route struggling for profitability.
 
jetawayusa
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:10 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Correcting my above post. TPE was an extension / tag route. It was not flown nonstop from PDX on Delta.


I flew TPE-PDX nonstop on Delta. Delta flew that route non stop 4 x a week and the other three days thru SEL (kimpo). This was short lived...ended sometime in 1994/95. Delta pulled out of TPE and BKK as their relationship with their handle agent in those two station soured. Delta continued SEL NGO and NRT non stop. FUK-PDX lasted about 9 months. FUK has not had any other non stop service to mainland USA since.
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:42 am

simairlinenet wrote:
Here's a good article on the gateway. I thought there was another detailed one online, but can't find it: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2011/10 ... uest-blog/


Same article I keep on the subject. I lived here during the hub at it's peak, it was beautiful how well it worked. The idea that PDX was the same thing as Seattle in not true. PDX was a chance by a carrier that was last to the Asian party. They were given an authority to NRT because PDX was the destination & they played their underdog card. Luckily they got it, because the L15 was limited.

The idea PDX was just a scissor hub is not entirely accurate. At one time, I'd see the M11's up to five of them, plus multiple 767's, 757's, 72s's, 733's, CR2's all coming from many more places than just hubs. Yes ATL, DFW, CVG, JFK, SLC & LAX were there, but ANC, BOI, BOS, ORD, LAS, SFO, SEA & YVR were flown to the connecting hub at one time or another.

Two M11's continued, one to ATL that came from NRT & the other M11 went to CVG coming from NGO. TPE was most definitely flown non-stop from here & KIX was never flown.

The SEA operation is DL setting up a hub, or trying at least. DL has had several changes during this time & maybe they will dial it in properly one day, before AA & AS offer some more optons.
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Cointrin330
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:55 am

DL's foray into Asia through the PDX operation was by all accounts a success, measured by how long the PDX operation lasted (1986 to 2001). It came at a time of unique changes to the TPAC market, which was still very NRT centric, as aircraft did not have the range to fly to many of the destinations that today are served nonstop. In 1986, UA acquired Pan Am's TPAC portfolio and NW was the other dominant player. AA was just getting going and focused on Japan. It was the Asian Financial Crisis, 9/11, and the recession that followed it that killed PDX as a TPAC gateway for DL.
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:07 pm

I used to correspond by letter with Delta route-development as a kid. Delta wanted all traffic flowing toward the western U.S. with no back-traffic. Portland also had very convenient customs that I think was a good selling point for passengers (and Delta expansion prospects) to choose the northwestern city. "Delta makes another bold move in the Pacific: Taipei. It's your move." Gotta love those full-page newspaper advertisements back in the day! At the time this destinations was truly exotic for such a southern belle, though they had recently become a national player with the Western merger. The Western merger was really the momentum for Delta's fledgling Pacific endeavours.
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:42 pm

Just an opinion, I know that DL is creating SEA Asia hub, but wouldn't it work better for AA? I mean, AA is partner with Alaska Airlines, and I think it would be better for them. Plus, Singapore Airlines launched SIN-SEA route last year, so Delta can't really do that either. They have limited options, Seoul, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, and that's about it. Delta is not interested in serving areas like Singapore, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, Taipei, or Fukuoka anytime soon, though they should if they really want to be a power house in Asia, again in which they are not interested. They need adequate replacement of the NRT hub they dismantled a few months ago......
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:45 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
DL's foray into Asia through the PDX operation was by all accounts a success, measured by how long the PDX operation lasted (1986 to 2001). It came at a time of unique changes to the TPAC market, which was still very NRT centric, as aircraft did not have the range to fly to many of the destinations that today are served nonstop. In 1986, UA acquired Pan Am's TPAC portfolio and NW was the other dominant player. AA was just getting going and focused on Japan. It was the Asian Financial Crisis, 9/11, and the recession that followed it that killed PDX as a TPAC gateway for DL.



Yep, the PDX hub lasted longer than the NRT hub. (1986-2001), (2008-2020).
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:12 am

simairlinenet wrote:
Here's a good article on the gateway. I thought there was another detailed one online, but can't find it: https://www.airlinereporter.com/2011/10 ... uest-blog/


The only point I had with this article, I've read in the past that Immigration/Custom was a bear for passengers from certain destinations.
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:17 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
Just an opinion, I know that DL is creating SEA Asia hub, but wouldn't it work better for AA? I mean, AA is partner with Alaska Airlines, and I think it would be better for them. Plus, Singapore Airlines launched SIN-SEA route last year, so Delta can't really do that either. They have limited options, Seoul, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, and that's about it. Delta is not interested in serving areas like Singapore, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, Taipei, or Fukuoka anytime soon, though they should if they really want to be a power house in Asia, again in which they are not interested. They need adequate replacement of the NRT hub they dismantled a few months ago......


The challenge with that argument is simply this: Delta and Alaska used to have a very strong partnership as well. If an AS partnership, plus AA serving the international routes “works better”, then why didn’t DL just do that in the first place when they already had the partnership with AS. DL could have easily just launched international routes from SEA, like AA is proposing. They didn’t.

DL had that AS partnership, and ultimately decided they were better off dropping the partnership and building their own hub to feed the TPAC flights. If the AS partnership would have been better for DL’s international routes, then DL should have stuck with that. DL didn’t, and there is a reason they didn’t. And that is why DL will likely fare better long term at SEA than AA will.
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:22 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
Just an opinion, I know that DL is creating SEA Asia hub, but wouldn't it work better for AA? I mean, AA is partner with Alaska Airlines, and I think it would be better for them. Plus, Singapore Airlines launched SIN-SEA route last year, so Delta can't really do that either. They have limited options, Seoul, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, and that's about it. Delta is not interested in serving areas like Singapore, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, Taipei, or Fukuoka anytime soon, though they should if they really want to be a power house in Asia, again in which they are not interested. They need adequate replacement of the NRT hub they dismantled a few months ago......


Why would you mention SQ here? DL has absolutely no reason to serve SIN, as it's already well served from the US thanks to UA/SQ, plus SIN isn't a Skyteam hub. I'd argue that they'd be mildly interested in serving TPE, given the large Taiwanese population in the PNW. As for FUK, that's a second-tier city which shouldn't be listed along with first-tier cities such as CGK, KUL, BKK, and SGN. FUK is already served by 2 US carriers (HA from HNL and UA from GUM), and that's more than enough. FUK doesn't have much TPAC traffic, and the little bit that it has goes via TYO.
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DeltaMD95
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:01 pm

n9801f wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
x1234 wrote:
because their MD-11 couldn't reach ATL-NRT non-stop.

...except that DL flew nonstop ATL-NRT with MD11s for years on end.


Maybe so. But didn’t the MD-11 range increase post-delivery due to McDoDo PIP’s?

Could the pre-PIP MD-11 make ATL-NRT?


DL received about half of their MD-11 deliveries between 1994-1998. Most of these likely had the PIPs incorporated into the production. It was the early MD-11 1991-92 line numbers that infamously fell below range expectations.
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
twicearound
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:04 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
DL's foray into Asia through the PDX operation was by all accounts a success, measured by how long the PDX operation lasted (1986 to 2001). It came at a time of unique changes to the TPAC market, which was still very NRT centric, as aircraft did not have the range to fly to many of the destinations that today are served nonstop. In 1986, UA acquired Pan Am's TPAC portfolio and NW was the other dominant player. AA was just getting going and focused on Japan. It was the Asian Financial Crisis, 9/11, and the recession that followed it that killed PDX as a TPAC gateway for DL.



Yep, the PDX hub lasted longer than the NRT hub. (1986-2001), (2008-2020).


You do realize that the NRT hub was opened in 1978 when the airport was built? So no, the PDX hub did not last longer then the 40 year operation in Narita.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:53 am

twicearound wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
DL's foray into Asia through the PDX operation was by all accounts a success, measured by how long the PDX operation lasted (1986 to 2001). It came at a time of unique changes to the TPAC market, which was still very NRT centric, as aircraft did not have the range to fly to many of the destinations that today are served nonstop. In 1986, UA acquired Pan Am's TPAC portfolio and NW was the other dominant player. AA was just getting going and focused on Japan. It was the Asian Financial Crisis, 9/11, and the recession that followed it that killed PDX as a TPAC gateway for DL.



Yep, the PDX hub lasted longer than the NRT hub. (1986-2001), (2008-2020).


You do realize that the NRT hub was opened in 1978 when the airport was built? So no, the PDX hub did not last longer then the 40 year operation in Narita.


I don't think that is what is being referred to. NRT opened in 1978, but Delta's hub at NRT, inherited through the merger with NW and combining its own NRT operations, existed for less time than DL's PDX TPAC hublet. DL and NW fully integrated in 2010. The NRT operation for DL closed in March 2010 with all flights moved to HND.
 
twicearound
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:04 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
twicearound wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:


Yep, the PDX hub lasted longer than the NRT hub. (1986-2001), (2008-2020).


You do realize that the NRT hub was opened in 1978 when the airport was built? So no, the PDX hub did not last longer then the 40 year operation in Narita.


I don't think that is what is being referred to. NRT opened in 1978, but Delta's hub at NRT, inherited through the merger with NW and combining its own NRT operations, existed for less time than DL's PDX TPAC hublet. DL and NW fully integrated in 2010. The NRT operation for DL closed in March 2010 with all flights moved to HND.


The hub that DL inherited from NWA, that was officially closed this year, was opened in 1978 when Narita opened. NWA originally had a hub operation at Haneda before the New Narita airport opened. So we are talking about a hub that operated without disruption from 1978 to 2020. So this hub existed for 42 consecutive years while their foray into PDX lasted 15. Unless you're only looking at half of DL's history, your not acknowledging that half of the DL we know today is made of NWA and it's all combined history at this point. If we are only counting post merger time, then the PDX operation had been long gone, and his argument is moot.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:21 am

twicearound wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
twicearound wrote:

You do realize that the NRT hub was opened in 1978 when the airport was built? So no, the PDX hub did not last longer then the 40 year operation in Narita.


I don't think that is what is being referred to. NRT opened in 1978, but Delta's hub at NRT, inherited through the merger with NW and combining its own NRT operations, existed for less time than DL's PDX TPAC hublet. DL and NW fully integrated in 2010. The NRT operation for DL closed in March 2010 with all flights moved to HND.


The hub that DL inherited from NWA, that was officially closed this year, was opened in 1978 when Narita opened. NWA originally had a hub operation at Haneda before the New Narita airport opened. So we are talking about a hub that operated without disruption from 1978 to 2020. So this hub existed for 42 consecutive years while their foray into PDX lasted 15. Unless you're only looking at half of DL's history, your not acknowledging that half of the DL we know today is made of NWA and it's all combined history at this point. If we are only counting post merger time, then the PDX operation had been long gone, and his argument is moot.


Read the post carefully. Discussing the DL portion of the NRT hub, not its entire history but argue away at semantics if it pleases you.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:53 pm

twicearound wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
twicearound wrote:

You do realize that the NRT hub was opened in 1978 when the airport was built? So no, the PDX hub did not last longer then the 40 year operation in Narita.


I don't think that is what is being referred to. NRT opened in 1978, but Delta's hub at NRT, inherited through the merger with NW and combining its own NRT operations, existed for less time than DL's PDX TPAC hublet. DL and NW fully integrated in 2010. The NRT operation for DL closed in March 2010 with all flights moved to HND.


The hub that DL inherited from NWA, that was officially closed this year, was opened in 1978 when Narita opened. NWA originally had a hub operation at Haneda before the New Narita airport opened. So we are talking about a hub that operated without disruption from 1978 to 2020. So this hub existed for 42 consecutive years while their foray into PDX lasted 15. Unless you're only looking at half of DL's history, your not acknowledging that half of the DL we know today is made of NWA and it's all combined history at this point. If we are only counting post merger time, then the PDX operation had been long gone, and his argument is moot.



Yeah I was not counting NWA, so I hope that clears everything up.
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:02 am

DeltaMD95 wrote:
n9801f wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:

...except that DL flew nonstop ATL-NRT with MD11s for years on end.


Maybe so. But didn’t the MD-11 range increase post-delivery due to McDoDo PIP’s?

Could the pre-PIP MD-11 make ATL-NRT?


DL received about half of their MD-11 deliveries between 1994-1998. Most of these likely had the PIPs incorporated into the production. It was the early MD-11 1991-92 line numbers that infamously fell below range expectations.


Ships 803-807 were the HKG and TPE birds that were equipped with the aux. fuel tanks in the forward cargo compartment. These four flew exclusively with the lower fuel consumption Phase III engines. The newer ships flew with a mix of Phase I and III engines.

I don't recall problems with range on ATL-NRT, but that nonstop route started after the early MD-11 problems. I do know that the pilots did have issues with crew rest after the F class seats were removed and BusinessElite cabins were installed.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:09 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
twicearound wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:


Yep, the PDX hub lasted longer than the NRT hub. (1986-2001), (2008-2020).


You do realize that the NRT hub was opened in 1978 when the airport was built? So no, the PDX hub did not last longer then the 40 year operation in Narita.


I don't think that is what is being referred to. NRT opened in 1978, but Delta's hub at NRT, inherited through the merger with NW and combining its own NRT operations, existed for less time than DL's PDX TPAC hublet. DL and NW fully integrated in 2010. The NRT operation for DL closed in March 2010 with all flights moved to HND.

Are you suggesting that DL stopped serving NRT in 2010 and at that time transferred their Tokyo operation to HND? Because that is not correct.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:11 pm

luckyone wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
twicearound wrote:

You do realize that the NRT hub was opened in 1978 when the airport was built? So no, the PDX hub did not last longer then the 40 year operation in Narita.


I don't think that is what is being referred to. NRT opened in 1978, but Delta's hub at NRT, inherited through the merger with NW and combining its own NRT operations, existed for less time than DL's PDX TPAC hublet. DL and NW fully integrated in 2010. The NRT operation for DL closed in March 2010 with all flights moved to HND.

Are you suggesting that DL stopped serving NRT in 2010 and at that time transferred their Tokyo operation to HND? Because that is not correct.



Yeah he meant 2020.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:19 pm

luckyone wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
twicearound wrote:

You do realize that the NRT hub was opened in 1978 when the airport was built? So no, the PDX hub did not last longer then the 40 year operation in Narita.


I don't think that is what is being referred to. NRT opened in 1978, but Delta's hub at NRT, inherited through the merger with NW and combining its own NRT operations, existed for less time than DL's PDX TPAC hublet. DL and NW fully integrated in 2010. The NRT operation for DL closed in March 2010 with all flights moved to HND.

Are you suggesting that DL stopped serving NRT in 2010 and at that time transferred their Tokyo operation to HND? Because that is not correct.


Typo. Delta shifted all TYO ops to HND this year, 2020, not in 2010.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:07 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Just an opinion, I know that DL is creating SEA Asia hub, but wouldn't it work better for AA? I mean, AA is partner with Alaska Airlines, and I think it would be better for them. Plus, Singapore Airlines launched SIN-SEA route last year, so Delta can't really do that either. They have limited options, Seoul, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, and that's about it. Delta is not interested in serving areas like Singapore, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, Taipei, or Fukuoka anytime soon, though they should if they really want to be a power house in Asia, again in which they are not interested. They need adequate replacement of the NRT hub they dismantled a few months ago......

DL partnered with AS specifically to grow SEA in to a hub then once they reached critical mass they dropped AS like a hot potato. AS has since been cozying up to AA but it didn't really become similar to their DL relationship until January and then COVID happened.
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TWA772LR
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Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: DL Portland Asia hub in the 1980's

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:07 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Just an opinion, I know that DL is creating SEA Asia hub, but wouldn't it work better for AA? I mean, AA is partner with Alaska Airlines, and I think it would be better for them. Plus, Singapore Airlines launched SIN-SEA route last year, so Delta can't really do that either. They have limited options, Seoul, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, and that's about it. Delta is not interested in serving areas like Singapore, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, Taipei, or Fukuoka anytime soon, though they should if they really want to be a power house in Asia, again in which they are not interested. They need adequate replacement of the NRT hub they dismantled a few months ago......

DL partnered with AS specifically to grow SEA in to a hub then once they reached critical mass they dropped AS like a hot potato. AS has since been cozying up to AA but it didn't really become similar to their DL relationship until January and then COVID happened.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.

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