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maps4ltd
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Dated flight terms?

Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:29 pm

I was on a WN flight the other day where the pilot commented on our "nonstop jet service" to San Diego. I know DL GAs refer to gate areas as "gatehouses" some times.

I don't see anything wrong with this myself, but Southwest GAs/FAs often say "Ladies, your purse/pocketbook counts as a personal item" in their 2 bags only speech. Again, nothing wrong IMO but I figure that in this day and age someone on Twitter's gonna throw a fit if they find a video.

I don't mean dated in a bad way, just notable. Any other terms like this you've heard?
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:59 pm

Still hear flight attendants called stewardesses at times
 
FriscoHeavy
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Dated flight terms?

Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:49 am

bfitzflyer wrote:
Still hear flight attendants called stewardesses at times



That’s what I call them. That’s what they are. Outdated or not, it is what they are.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:23 am

"Tarmac" hasn't actually been tarmac for decades as far as I know. It's asphalt concrete.

"Gate" is an outdated term. There used to be an actual gate leading outside that would be opened when the plane was ready for passengers; I'm old enough that I actually experienced a few of these. There's no such thing anymore; in most cases there's a jet bridge with a desk in front of it, no gate. Even if you do go outside to board via air stairs, it's not actually a gate you go through, it's just a door. I haven't seen an actual gate in probably 30 years, and they were already rare then.

The FAA thinks "cockpit" is an outdated term and is basically removing all reference to that in training materials. It's now "flight deck", officially. These terms have both been used interchangeably for a while, but the FAA wants pilots and airlines in the US to stop using the term "cockpit".

(Though I would argue that "flight deck" is inherently dated... "deck" is a nautical term, and there's only one "deck" on most airplanes. There's no physical difference between the "flight deck" and "passenger deck" or "cargo deck".)

"Ticket" is of course obsolete. Nobody carries an actual ticket anymore. I realize "e-ticket" is an "updated" term that's sometimes used, but that just sounds very 90's and now that *everyone* uses e-tickets, I just hear the term "ticket" again more often than not. Not sure what a better word would be, though.

"Co-pilot" is probably one of my biggest pet peeves. I don't know if this was ever really accurate, but it just sounds really anachronistic today and I still see it all the time. It's "First Officer". That's the actual title. "Co-pilot" makes it sound as if the Captain is always the "main pilot" and that's not the case; half the time it's the FO flying.

I could keep going, but I'll stop here.
 
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afterburner
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:38 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
bfitzflyer wrote:
Still hear flight attendants called stewardesses at times



That’s what I call them. That’s what they are. Outdated or not, it is what they are.

Do you call the male ones "stewardess" too?

Whatever you call them, airlines use "flight attendant" rather than "stewardess" nowadays.
 
e38
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:34 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply # 4), "Co-pilot" makes it sound as if the Captain is always the "main pilot" and that's not the case; half the time it's the FO flying."

Your response indicates you know nothing about the role of a Captain or a First Officer.

Yes, both pilots are qualified to fly the aircraft and in general they divide the flying, but the Captain is ALWAYS the final authority and is always responsible and accountable for the entire operation of the flight, regardless of who is flying the aircraft. It is an issue of leadership, not who is flying the plane. I've never heard the term "main pilot," but if you are referring to who is always responsible for the safe and efficient conduct of the flight, then yes, the Captain IS the "main pilot."

By the way, the terms "Aircraft Commander" and "Co-pilot" instead of "Captain" and "First Officer" are still used in various flight operations and are valid, acceptable, and respectable terms. They are not dated flight terms.

e38
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:22 pm

A US ATC thing to match what other countries use- "taxi into position and hold" replaced by "line up and wait."
Also "Lifeguard" call signs replaced with "Medevac."
 
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vhtje
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:26 pm

The one that I wish was outdated is the dreadful “deplane”. I shudder every time I read or hear it. What is wrong with disembark?

I am actually not too fond of “plane”, either. When I was in air cadets as a teenager in the 1980s, we got disciplined if we used that word; the word professionals use, we were told, is “aircraft”. Amateurs used the word “plane”. It’s stuck with me ever since.
 
IAHFLYR
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:36 pm

DF Steer, not even sure if the AFSS contractor (whoever it is these days) even knows what the term DF Steer refers to at all. :shakehead:

LOC Back Course approach and NDB approach. Yes they still exist and I believe still a requirement to fly one if available for instrument checkride.

Runway Visibility Value (RVV). Huh, don't think they exist in the U.S.

Contact Approach. When was the last time any of you pilots requested it and if so curious what the controller thought it might be all about. I know we didn't train for it or at least I didn't in Houston TRACON.
 
dmg626
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:49 pm

IAHFLYR wrote:
DF Steer, not even sure if the AFSS contractor (whoever it is these days) even knows what the term DF Steer refers to at all. :shakehead:

LOC Back Course approach and NDB approach. Yes they still exist and I believe still a requirement to fly one if available for instrument checkride.


Correct on the ndb, make sure your plane doesn’t have an adf in it when taking the checkride.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:00 pm

vhtje wrote:
The one that I wish was outdated is the dreadful “deplane”. I shudder every time I read or hear it. What is wrong with disembark?

I am actually not too fond of “plane”, either. When I was in air cadets as a teenager in the 1980s, we got disciplined if we used that word; the word professionals use, we were told, is “aircraft”. Amateurs used the word “plane”. It’s stuck with me ever since.


An “aircraft” is any vehicle capable of flight; an “airplane” is a vehicle that flies by wing lift. Thus distinguished from balloons, dirigibles, helicopters and what not.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:08 pm

IAHFLYR wrote:
DF Steer, not even sure if the AFSS contractor (whoever it is these days) even knows what the term DF Steer refers to at all. :shakehead:

LOC Back Course approach and NDB approach. Yes they still exist and I believe still a requirement to fly one if available for instrument checkride.

Runway Visibility Value (RVV). Huh, don't think they exist in the U.S.

Contact Approach. When was the last time any of you pilots requested it and if so curious what the controller thought it might be all about. I know we didn't train for it or at least I didn't in Houston TRACON.


A sharp Auckland Radio operator saved a 141 crew eons ago. Unable to contact Auckland Control on VHF, he guessed they were way off course, did a DF Steer, got a rough position and a heading toward AKL.

There can’t be many BC approaches anymore.

Wasn’t there a time, a visual approach required radar coverage, so a contact was the only option or cancel? It would have a long time ago—70s maybe.

I’ve been given cruise clearances by Oakland OAC in the Pacific. Unusual.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:17 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
vhtje wrote:
The one that I wish was outdated is the dreadful “deplane”. I shudder every time I read or hear it. What is wrong with disembark?

I am actually not too fond of “plane”, either. When I was in air cadets as a teenager in the 1980s, we got disciplined if we used that word; the word professionals use, we were told, is “aircraft”. Amateurs used the word “plane”. It’s stuck with me ever since.


An “aircraft” is any vehicle capable of flight; an “airplane” is a vehicle that flies by wing lift. Thus distinguished from balloons, dirigibles, helicopters and what not.


You’re correct, of course, but “airplane” isn’t “plane”, and airplanes flown by commercial carriers are still aircraft.

It’s interesting the terms carriers use. American carriers universally use the word “plane”. But Qantas, for example, always use “aircraft”. BA mostly use “aircraft”, but sometimes “plane” is heard.
 
IAHFLYR
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:11 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Wasn’t there a time, a visual approach required radar coverage, so a contact was the only option or cancel? It would have a long time ago—70s maybe. I’ve been given cruise clearances by Oakland OAC in the Pacific. Unusual.


As long as I recall (late 70's) having RADAR for a visual approach was not required. Now I only worked in RADAR facilities both military and FAA.

Ahhhh great catch on the "cruise clearance". I can only remember using that on a couple of occasions.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:07 am

afterburner wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
bfitzflyer wrote:
Still hear flight attendants called stewardesses at times



That’s what I call them. That’s what they are. Outdated or not, it is what they are.

Do you call the male ones "stewardess" too?

Whatever you call them, airlines use "flight attendant" rather than "stewardess" nowadays.


Steward for a male.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Dated flight terms?

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:35 am

IAHFLYR wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Wasn’t there a time, a visual approach required radar coverage, so a contact was the only option or cancel? It would have a long time ago—70s maybe. I’ve been given cruise clearances by Oakland OAC in the Pacific. Unusual.


As long as I recall (late 70's) having RADAR for a visual approach was not required. Now I only worked in RADAR facilities both military and FAA.

Ahhhh great catch on the "cruise clearance". I can only remember using that on a couple of occasions.


Ever issue a “cleared thru” clearance? I got one once, “cleared to Denver (Stapleton) through Grand Island via xxxx, Maintain xxxx, report off Grand Island on this frequency”. No other traffic, so IFR while quick fueling.

Flagstop maybe added to the pile, is it used anymore?
 
Max Q
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:47 pm

e38 wrote:
Quoting spacecadet (Reply # 4), "Co-pilot" makes it sound as if the Captain is always the "main pilot" and that's not the case; half the time it's the FO flying."

Your response indicates you know nothing about the role of a Captain or a First Officer.

Yes, both pilots are qualified to fly the aircraft and in general they divide the flying, but the Captain is ALWAYS the final authority and is always responsible and accountable for the entire operation of the flight, regardless of who is flying the aircraft. It is an issue of leadership, not who is flying the plane. I've never heard the term "main pilot," but if you are referring to who is always responsible for the safe and efficient conduct of the flight, then yes, the Captain IS the "main pilot."

By the way, the terms "Aircraft Commander" and "Co-pilot" instead of "Captain" and "First Officer" are still used in various flight operations and are valid, acceptable, and respectable terms. They are not dated flight terms.

e38




They may be acceptable and indeed are commonly used terms in the Military but they’re not in civilian operations


I started with a regional airline in 1986 and have been employed by a major US airline since 1987


We have never used ‘Aircraft Commander’ let alone ‘Co Pilot’


It’s Captain or First Officer thank you


Space Cadet is completely correct
 
Max Q
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Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Dated flight terms?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:50 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
I was on a WN flight the other day where the pilot commented on our "nonstop jet service" to San Diego. I know DL GAs refer to gate areas as "gatehouses" some times.

I don't see anything wrong with this myself, but Southwest GAs/FAs often say "Ladies, your purse/pocketbook counts as a personal item" in their 2 bags only speech. Again, nothing wrong IMO but I figure that in this day and age someone on Twitter's gonna throw a fit if they find a video.

I don't mean dated in a bad way, just notable. Any other terms like this you've heard?



I think the ‘non stop jet service’ PA was a little tongue in cheek
 
e38
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:09 pm

Re: Dated flight terms?

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:32 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply # 17), "I started with a regional airline"

Max, would that have been a commuter airline?

e38
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Dated flight terms?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:01 am

Europeans use “commander” more often. First Officer sounds a bit pretentious at times, especially if the FO is supposed to on equal footing with the Captain. Pilot/Co-pilot works real well, even in the military we used it on intercom and in the manuals. Bizav, too.
 
Chemist
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:18 am

Deleted, redundant.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:43 am

It has always been first officer where I flew, unless you go to Asia or Africa, where everybody automatically gains a promotion to captain :stirthepot: In passenger briefings we just introduce ourselves as pilots, colleagues or similar, there is no need for the passengers to know our rank. I've often seen commander written in text, on forms that need to be signed or in manuals etc., but in speech it is almost always captain. In southern Europe I've found "Comandante" is more common.

Another dated term we still see is "pilot non-flying". It's "Pilot Monitoring" these days.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1966
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Dated flight terms?

Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:26 am

spacecadet wrote:
"Gate" is an outdated term. There used to be an actual gate leading outside that would be opened when the plane was ready for passengers; I'm old enough that I actually experienced a few of these. There's no such thing anymore; in most cases there's a jet bridge with a desk in front of it, no gate. Even if you do go outside to board via air stairs, it's not actually a gate you go through, it's just a door. I haven't seen an actual gate in probably 30 years, and they were already rare then.


KOA, where the waiting area is open-air and is on ground level, uses actual gates to seal off the apron from the waiting area.
 
IAHFLYR
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: Dated flight terms?

Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:05 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Ever issue a “cleared thru” clearance? I got one once, “cleared to Denver (Stapleton) through Grand Island via xxxx, Maintain xxxx, report off Grand Island on this frequency”. No other traffic, so IFR while quick fueling.


Yes I did, though not very often and probably not more than a handful of times if that often.

Have been on the other side of it when I'd join a friend who was building time as a night hauler for newspapers. We'd make a quick stop in LCH if my memory is correct to kick out the news just shut down one more on the PA31 and away we'd go. Think Houston Center gave us like a 10 minute window to be back in the air again.
 
Max Q
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:13 pm

IAHFLYR wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Ever issue a “cleared thru” clearance? I got one once, “cleared to Denver (Stapleton) through Grand Island via xxxx, Maintain xxxx, report off Grand Island on this frequency”. No other traffic, so IFR while quick fueling.


Yes I did, though not very often and probably not more than a handful of times if that often.

Have been on the other side of it when I'd join a friend who was building time as a night hauler for newspapers. We'd make a quick stop in LCH if my memory is correct to kick out the news just shut down one more on the PA31 and away we'd go. Think Houston Center gave us like a 10 minute window to be back in the air again.




That takes me back to my cancelled check flying days, been there and done that


Best wishes
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:03 am

George Carlin had a routine about airline lingo.


My favorite, "Once you are on the plane...F--- that, I am not getting on the plane, I am getting IN the plane"

Also "Please observe the no-smoking sign until you have left the aircraft and are well inside the terminal building. Well, how can I observe the sign if I am in the building, I can't even see the airplane anymore?"

Paraphrasing a little :)
 
IAHFLYR
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:57 pm

Max Q wrote:
That takes me back to my cancelled check flying days, been there and done that

Best wishes


Was that in a C210, BE58 or MU2? Boy there's a "dated flight term", MU2!! Not many of them flying around I suspect.
 
Max Q
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:56 pm

IAHFLYR wrote:
Max Q wrote:
That takes me back to my cancelled check flying days, been there and done that

Best wishes


Was that in a C210, BE58 or MU2? Boy there's a "dated flight term", MU2!! Not many of them flying around I suspect.



I spent two years flying checks mostly at night and all single pilot, the first was in a Beech F33 Bonanza, and the second in a B55 Baron

I liked the Bonanza, loved the Baron, but both of them never let me down no matter what, no radar in either but it held up through thunderstorms, icing, fog, you name it, the hairiest flying I ever did


Great aircraft and quite an education


Best wishes
 
Max Q
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:47 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
George Carlin had a routine about airline lingo.


My favorite, "Once you are on the plane...F--- that, I am not getting on the plane, I am getting IN the plane"

Also "Please observe the no-smoking sign until you have left the aircraft and are well inside the terminal building. Well, how can I observe the sign if I am in the building, I can't even see the airplane anymore?"

Paraphrasing a little :)



Loved George Carlin

RIP
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8089
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Dated flight terms?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:32 pm

Check flying—where instruments pilots are made or die trying. I did about two years with assorted other stuff, real education.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Dated flight terms?

Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:46 am

How about 'ticket counter'? Bet very few tickets here sold at the counter anymore. Some, yes.shoukd just be called bag drop centers lol.
 
Max Q
Posts: 9053
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Dated flight terms?

Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:14 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Check flying—where instruments pilots are made or die trying. I did about two years with assorted other stuff, real education.



An accurate description,


What did you fly then Gx ?
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4384
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

Re: Dated flight terms?

Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:56 pm

Ya know I'm not certain of this, but I'd be "check flying" is a dated term these days!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Dated flight terms?

Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:56 pm

Max Q wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Check flying—where instruments pilots are made or die trying. I did about two years with assorted other stuff, real education.



An accurate description,


What did you fly then Gx ?


Not sure of the question, but a fellow pilot there sponsored into an ANG UPT slot to fly Huns, the rest is history. Flew checks out of HFD 74-75
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8089
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Dated flight terms?

Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:58 pm

IAHFLYR wrote:
Ya know I'm not certain of this, but I'd be "check flying" is a dated term these days!


Yeah, pretty much gone.
 
Max Q
Posts: 9053
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Dated flight terms?

Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:15 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Max Q wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Check flying—where instruments pilots are made or die trying. I did about two years with assorted other stuff, real education.



An accurate description,


What did you fly then Gx ?


Not sure of the question, but a fellow pilot there sponsored into an ANG UPT slot to fly Huns, the rest is history. Flew checks out of HFD 74-75



What type aircraft?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8089
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Dated flight terms?

Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:14 am

Barons and Aztecs
 
Max Q
Posts: 9053
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Dated flight terms?

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:38 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Barons and Aztecs



Understood, never flew the Aztec but spent a year on the Baron, a very nice aircraft

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