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crownvic
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What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:06 am

In my earlier years, I used to be fascinated seeing large commercial airliners practicing at airports doing touch and goes, that they did not serve. While rudimentary simulators did exist, airlines preferred live flying. I know this thread will be for the "older" participants, but if your memory banks are working, it would be nice to start a list. Here is what I recall seeing:

ACY - Pan Am 707, 727, 747, A300, A310 plus TWA 707 and 747, plus ONA DC-8, DC-9, DC-10 and leased 747s, plus Capitol DC-8
ISP - I believe Pan Am practiced there.
Miami - Dade/Collier Everglades Airport - Eastern

Surely, there had to be others, especially in California.
 
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452QX
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:19 am

Moses Lake, WA was JAL’s 747 training grounds up to their retirement
 
Italianflyer
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:31 am

I know DL used MSY & GSW (Ft. Worth) just because of their accidents there in '67 & '72 respectively. .
 
Utah744
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:45 am

North Central Airlines CV-580 training circa 1975. A lot of training flights at Farmington, MN and a few at St. Paul, MN. An interesting flight at STP I had flown first and went back and sat in a passenger seat and on the takeoff the right engine feathered after liftoff. The student did his checklist just like he was supposed to and armed the auto-feather. The training Captain forgot to turn the switch off and on the V1 cut we got a complete feather. There are tall buildings around the airport and definitely added a little excitement to the flight.
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Coronado990
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:57 am

I remember back in the late 60s and early 70s PSA and All Nippon 727's doing touch-and-goes at SDM Brown Field Municipal in Otay Mesa San Diego.
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CrewBunk
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:03 am

In eastern Canada, we used YHM, YOW and YMX.

In my era, the simulator was used for most training. The only thing missing was the actual landing. Earlier simulators could not accurately replicate landings. So .... after being checked out in the simulator, we’d have to do touch and goes in a real airplane. Great fun.

Later simulators were much more accurate for landings, so the urban legend some hear is actually true ..... one’s first landing in an actual aircraft was with passengers! (And a Training Captain).

But ..... looking at my Dad’s DC-8 manuals, I see an approach and landing with two engines out on one side was pretty tricky. A balance of power, flaps and speed, if you ever got behind the power curve, you were hooped. Scary enough in a simulator, I can’t imagine doing it in a real airplane during training.

In the early days, the reliability of jet engines was still unknown. Has there ever been an occasion where a 4 engine jet transport had to do an approach/landing with two out on one side?
 
sprxUSA
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:42 am

I remember at Stockton, CA (SCK) 1980 seeing WA and AA DC-10s doing circuits at various times of day.
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Flanker7
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:52 am

Double post
Last edited by Flanker7 on Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Flanker7
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:52 am

Shannon used to see klm 747-200 not sure how frequently .
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JannEejit
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:22 am

Flanker7 wrote:
Shannon used to see klm 747-200 not sure how frequently .


Shannon saw all types of non serving airlines and airliners for training flights, touch and go's etc. BA's Concorde being one such type. Here in Scotland, Prestwick Airport was used similarly, also including Concorde, all the way back to hosting pre-production model G-BSST during her south to north supersonic runs of the UK west coast. Prestwick is still very much active as a training airport in between it's limited commercial movements nowadays.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:37 am

Flanker7 wrote:
Shannon used to see klm 747-200 not sure how frequently .

Billund in Denmark too, at least the 747-300 and -400.

There's a great story on Facebook in the Farewell KLM Boeing 747 page from Peter Jongbloed.
It's in Dutch but you can use Google Translate, a really cool story to be honest.

They had to do visual circuits for training, Legoland Billund is literally right next to the airport and it was the Easter Holiday.
So the instructors and trainees took their children (and some of their childrens friends) with them. Landed the aircraft and switched engines #1 and #2 off; disembarked the kids and for the next couple of hours did some circuit training and touch-and-goes while the kids were having fun at Legoland.
When training was done they waited for the kids to come back and then flew back to Amsterdam.

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B757Forever
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:49 pm

In the mid 1980's, FedEx DC-10s were regular visitors to HSV performing touch-and-goes. I often saw a hard rudder deflection on climb indicating they had pulled #1 or #3 throttle back.
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Dalmd88
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:57 pm

I remember seeing DL 737 doing work at DAB back in the late 80's. They only flew the 727 in for pax flights.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:56 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
Shannon used to see klm 747-200 not sure how frequently .

Shannon saw all types of non serving airlines and airliners for training flights, touch and go's etc. BA's Concorde being one such type.


From the a.net database - three decades of aircraft training at Shannon
BOAC VC-10 all the way back to 1964, a very shiny KLM 747 in 1971, and the BCAL from 1985



Some came from near, some from further away


And then there was this...
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:09 pm

I found this old footage of pre-production Concorde,G-BSST operating through Prestwick during it's development era. Great crowds on the spectator terrace to see it too.

https://scotlandonscreen.org.uk/browse- ... -002-571-c
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:30 pm

At EAL, I did a couple of “bounce drills” for new F/Os at Grand Bahama (MYGF). I was the engineer.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:46 pm

When I lived in Fresno, California ( early 80s) I would often see Flying Tigers' 747s do touch and goes at Fresno-Yosemite International Airport; I believe the 747s were based at LAX.
 
PA12
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:45 pm

I remember as a kid a UA 727 doing touch and goes at GJT ( Grand Junction), back in the mid 70’s.
 
UA735WL
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:27 pm

NW used to use DLH as a training airport for the 747-200. Apparently the locals didn't take well to it.
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Flanker7
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:14 pm

https://youtu.be/CnWO-hlcZRQ circuit training in the 90s klm 747-300
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crownvic
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:29 am

JannEejit wrote:
I found this old footage of pre-production Concorde,G-BSST operating through Prestwick during it's development era. Great crowds on the spectator terrace to see it too.

https://scotlandonscreen.org.uk/browse- ... -002-571-c


That was quite an impressive prototype video of Concorde. I never knew she "smoked" like a Convair 880! This was obviously remedied on production aircraft.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:46 am

crownvic wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
I found this old footage of pre-production Concorde,G-BSST operating through Prestwick during it's development era. Great crowds on the spectator terrace to see it too.

https://scotlandonscreen.org.uk/browse- ... -002-571-c


That was quite an impressive prototype video of Concorde. I never knew she "smoked" like a Convair 880! This was obviously remedied on production aircraft.


Yeah pretty damn smoky, although I've seen plenty like that in later years of full production type service too.

Incidentally if you spotted the BEA Airtours 707 landing in that clip after the first Concorde shot, you may be interested to note that these too used PIK as a training centre. One such flight utilising G-APFK resulted in a take off crash in 1977 when a (now rebranded as) British Airtours example clipped the runway with it's left wing, some thirty feet into take off during a failed engine simulation exercise. The pilot under instruction failed to react within sufficient time and the whole plane came down awkwardly, skidding sideways along the main runway, losing all four engines and catching fire. The crew all escaped but the aircraft was written off and destroyed after the enquiry. I suppose it goes to show that training is just that and that things may be at higher risk of going wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Brit ... _707_crash
 
TheGov
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:04 pm

I remember sometime during my time in MEM, DL brought an L-1011 for touch and goes. I was riding the employee bus to the parking lot when I saw a Tri-Star coming off of runway 27, full steam. Shocked the hell out of me but thought it was the coolest thing!
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crownvic
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:35 am

JannEejit wrote:
crownvic wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
I found this old footage of pre-production Concorde,G-BSST operating through Prestwick during it's development era. Great crowds on the spectator terrace to see it too.

https://scotlandonscreen.org.uk/browse- ... -002-571-c


That was quite an impressive prototype video of Concorde. I never knew she "smoked" like a Convair 880! This was obviously remedied on production aircraft.


Yeah pretty damn smoky, although I've seen plenty like that in later years of full production type service too.

Incidentally if you spotted the BEA Airtours 707 landing in that clip after the first Concorde shot, you may be interested to note that these too used PIK as a training centre. One such flight utilising G-APFK resulted in a take off crash in 1977 when a (now rebranded as) British Airtours example clipped the runway with it's left wing, some thirty feet into take off during a failed engine simulation exercise. The pilot under instruction failed to react within sufficient time and the whole plane came down awkwardly, skidding sideways along the main runway, losing all four engines and catching fire. The crew all escaped but the aircraft was written off and destroyed after the enquiry. I suppose it goes to show that training is just that and that things may be at higher risk of going wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Brit ... _707_crash


I sure did and was also noticing how much smoke a Conway powered 707 made vs Concorde. Then again, Concorde did use more power on landing to keep air flowing over it's delta wing design.

At ACY early on, there were two bad crew training crashes. One was in 1968 with a Capitol DC-8-31 that destroyed the aircraft, but the crew survived. The other one was worse. In 1969, a TWA 707-331C crashed killing all five crew members.
 
IAHFLYR
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:37 pm

Back in the mid to late 80's CO would do I training flights with the B727's and DC9's at IAH during midnight shifts as well as TranStar with their DC9-50's and MD82's. It was great and helped the night fly by with a couple of trainers doing ILS and touch-n-goes.
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StlHsvSfoSan
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:18 pm

DL did touch-and-goes at HSV in the 1980's. When I moved there I was surprised to see L1011, 767 flights - this is when DL didn't have pax service to HSV.
 
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727tiger
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:38 pm

Prior to the official opening of MCI (and the transfer of Kansas City passenger service from MKC) in November 1972, Braniff pilots would conduct touch-and-gos at the airfield. I recall there was a photo of a BI 727 (taken from an adjacent cornfield) as it was performing a touch-and-go that appeared in the Kansas City Start commemorative edition on the opening of the new MCI.
 
Chemist
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:22 am

United had a DC-8 training aircraft that would do touch and gos at Denver Stapleton in the early 70's.
 
Lpbri
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:12 pm

What about TNT in south Florida? I'm sure that was used by EAL
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:45 pm

Yes, they did. A DC-9-14 had a training accident during a V1 cut, caught the wingtip.
 
DashTrash
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:51 pm

StlHsvSfoSan wrote:
DL did touch-and-goes at HSV in the 1980's. When I moved there I was surprised to see L1011, 767 flights - this is when DL didn't have pax service to HSV.

Sure did. I remember seeing everything they had. 727s, 73s, 75s, DC-8s, -9s, MD-11s and even an A-310. Saw Valujet come through around ‘93 or ‘94. FedEx brought DC-10s through on occasion and of course RF-4s from BHM before they refit with 135s.


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wxtech
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:53 pm

I think I remember America West using KPRC at night for training. Late 1980's or early 1990s is what I recall.
 
DesertAir
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:31 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
I remember at Stockton, CA (SCK) 1980 seeing WA and AA DC-10s doing circuits at various times of day.


My dad used to take me out to the Stockton Metro Airport to watch the PanAM 747 practice touch and go in the early 70s.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:51 am

I remember Expressjet actually using the 145 for training in the early 2000s. I think they kept one or 2 on the apron at the XJ hangar just for that.
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IAHFLYR
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Re: What Airports did Airlines train at in the Old Days?

Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:03 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
I remember Expressjet actually using the 145 for training in the early 2000s. I think they kept one or 2 on the apron at the XJ hangar just for that.


They did and also had an accident at BPT while doing traning.

https://reports.aviation-safety.net/199 ... N14931.pdf
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