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LAX772LR
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Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:24 pm

I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Delta follows United: eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:26 pm

Never thought I'd see the day. Hope southwest has some good bragging done.
@DadCelo
 
0newair0
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:28 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
https://news.delta.com/building-its-demonstrated-commitment-flexibility-customers-delta-eliminates-change-fees

Great to see!

United beat Delta to the punch on this. Delta had been planning on doing this since the end of 2019, just failed to pull the trigger before United.

Ed made public mention of eliminating the change fees during the profit sharing day media circuit.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
32andBelow
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:28 pm

They’ll just tell you the fare difference is 400 dollars
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:33 pm

32andBelow wrote:
They’ll just tell you the fare difference is 400 dollars

Which it very well may be, especially on the day of travel.

That was the case even WITH change fees.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:43 pm

Wow, the revenue management system just had a few chapters pulled out of the book. It has to be done now, but this is a major replan.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
foxalphazulu
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:11 pm

Wondering if Southwest should be worried?
 
RushmoreAir
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:16 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Wow, the revenue management system just had a few chapters pulled out of the book. It has to be done now, but this is a major replan.

Lightsaber


Unrestricted fare structures, no change fees ... the industry will have to get creative about identifying the business/leisure split. Of course, not a lot of business traffic in the next year anyway. But this is a serious blow to anyone that was hoping to preserve some yield. Will this help accelerate initiatives like NDC, where leisure travelers will have to provide their FFP info for best fare class availability?

If this is the type of strategic thinking that we'll be seeing over the next while (legacy carrier makes aggressive move, others immediately follow), any hope of capacity discipline seems faint. The industry will get caught in a customer-friendly spiral until someone declares Ch 11, then everyone will.
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The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8312
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:34 pm

0newair0 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
https://news.delta.com/building-its-demonstrated-commitment-flexibility-customers-delta-eliminates-change-fees

Great to see!

United beat Delta to the punch on this. Delta had been planning on doing this since the end of 2019, just failed to pull the trigger before United.

Ed made public mention of eliminating the change fees during the profit sharing day media circuit.


I'm not going to let Delta rewrite history and claim any credit for the momentum to make this change. United beat them. Period.

Could one be any more vague? This statement from DL's Eric Phillips Senior Vice President – Pricing and Revenue Management - in December 2019, as cited in the Investor Presentation's corrected transcript:

'Look, we recognize, life happens. Meetings get rescheduled. Dance recitals are important. And yes, sometimes
tee-ball practice is like a Game 7. So our goal is to make sure that we provide our employees with the tools and
the policies that they need so they can respond to the customers with the fairness and empathy that customers
want. What are the more exciting and interesting initiatives we have underway at Delta is called changing change.
So, we're not ready to share any specifics with you all about it yet. But you should know that we have a broad
array of customers and employees working together to think about how we could change and approach flexibility
differently than this industry has in the past.'
 
0newair0
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:47 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
https://news.delta.com/building-its-demonstrated-commitment-flexibility-customers-delta-eliminates-change-fees

Great to see!

United beat Delta to the punch on this. Delta had been planning on doing this since the end of 2019, just failed to pull the trigger before United.

Ed made public mention of eliminating the change fees during the profit sharing day media circuit.


I'm not going to let Delta rewrite history and claim any credit for the momentum to make this change. United beat them. Period.

Could one be any more vague? This statement from DL's Eric Phillips Senior Vice President – Pricing and Revenue Management - in December 2019, as cited in the Investor Presentation's corrected transcript:

'Look, we recognize, life happens. Meetings get rescheduled. Dance recitals are important. And yes, sometimes
tee-ball practice is like a Game 7. So our goal is to make sure that we provide our employees with the tools and
the policies that they need so they can respond to the customers with the fairness and empathy that customers
want. What are the more exciting and interesting initiatives we have underway at Delta is called changing change.
So, we're not ready to share any specifics with you all about it yet. But you should know that we have a broad
array of customers and employees working together to think about how we could change and approach flexibility
differently than this industry has in the past.'
Who's rewriting history?

Point is Delta was planning on doing this and has been public about it since 2019.

Internal decisions about this were not vague at all. The change fee was going away.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
DLASFlyer
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:52 pm

A fantastic two days for the American consumer. Now about those cell phone "upgrade fees" and hotel "resort fees"
 
luv2cattlecall
Posts: 826
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:58 pm

It'll be interesting to see if this results in more people booking regular economy instead of basic. Between free carry-on bags and being able to pick seats at -24 hours, Delta's BE has generally felt like it wasn't as differentiated as some other carriers.

So if they can get 40 pax to buy up to regular economy for an extra $30, it might end up pulling in more revenue compared to 10 pax paying extra for a refundable option.

I wonder if things like Concur will have an option to treat a no change fee ticket similar to a fully refundable one? If not, then that should help prevent yield erosion from business travelers who traditionally book full fare economy.

Another area where this might end up helping the bottom line is if people make more last minute changes and treat the fare paid as a sunk cost. For example, if they are visiting family and decide to stay another day, and they can for just an extra $90 difference in fare vs $150 change fee + $90, or vs buying a new ticket, it is more or less free money to Delta. Anecdotally, I've seen this frequently happen with people I know who fly on Southwest.

Delta seems to do a great job with overbooking so after some time to fine tune, I'm guessing there won't many wasted seats due to last minute ticket cancellations either. And even if they are a little too aggressive with overbooking, the VDB "auction" system works out really well without upsetting pax.
Last edited by luv2cattlecall on Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 679
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:05 pm

DLASFlyer wrote:
A fantastic two days for the American consumer. Now about those cell phone "upgrade fees" and hotel "resort fees"


Resort fee is the worst. And some place has changed it into Destination Fee. Same stuff but different names.

What I personally want to see changes are the YQ/YR airline Fuel Surcharges (now named Carrier Surcharges since the oil went from $150 to $30 and airlines can't make the high oil price argument any more).
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:06 pm

0newair0 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
United beat Delta to the punch on this. Delta had been planning on doing this since the end of 2019, just failed to pull the trigger before United.

Ed made public mention of eliminating the change fees during the profit sharing day media circuit.


I'm not going to let Delta rewrite history and claim any credit for the momentum to make this change. United beat them. Period.

Could one be any more vague? This statement from DL's Eric Phillips Senior Vice President – Pricing and Revenue Management - in December 2019, as cited in the Investor Presentation's corrected transcript:

'Look, we recognize, life happens. Meetings get rescheduled. Dance recitals are important. And yes, sometimes
tee-ball practice is like a Game 7. So our goal is to make sure that we provide our employees with the tools and
the policies that they need so they can respond to the customers with the fairness and empathy that customers
want. What are the more exciting and interesting initiatives we have underway at Delta is called changing change.
So, we're not ready to share any specifics with you all about it yet. But you should know that we have a broad
array of customers and employees working together to think about how we could change and approach flexibility
differently than this industry has in the past.'
Who's rewriting history?

Point is Delta was planning on doing this and has been public about it since 2019.

Internal decisions about this were not vague at all. The change fee was going away.

Delta has also been "planning" on free wifi and people wearing robot suits loading planes. Doesn't mean they will ever do it or did. Just means they talked about it.

United actually did it and announced it. Nobody on this site knows if/when Delta was actually going to make this change before United announced.

Delta likes to announce things long before they've actually decided or worked out if it's even feasible.

https://news.delta.com/delta-takes-firs ... mited-test
https://news.delta.com/delta-first-airl ... e-strength
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2624
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:15 pm

0newair0 wrote:
Who's rewriting history?

Point is Delta was planning on doing this and has been public about it since 2019.

Internal decisions about this were not vague at all. The change fee was going away.


So are you saying Delta was first by announcing elimination of change fees in December, 2019, and was going to implement this on August 31, 2020? And it is just a coincidence that United eliminated their change fee on August 30, 2020?
 
luv2cattlecall
Posts: 826
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:16 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

I'm not going to let Delta rewrite history and claim any credit for the momentum to make this change. United beat them. Period.

Could one be any more vague? This statement from DL's Eric Phillips Senior Vice President – Pricing and Revenue Management - in December 2019, as cited in the Investor Presentation's corrected transcript:

'Look, we recognize, life happens. Meetings get rescheduled. Dance recitals are important. And yes, sometimes
tee-ball practice is like a Game 7. So our goal is to make sure that we provide our employees with the tools and
the policies that they need so they can respond to the customers with the fairness and empathy that customers
want. What are the more exciting and interesting initiatives we have underway at Delta is called changing change.
So, we're not ready to share any specifics with you all about it yet. But you should know that we have a broad
array of customers and employees working together to think about how we could change and approach flexibility
differently than this industry has in the past.'
Who's rewriting history?

Point is Delta was planning on doing this and has been public about it since 2019.

Internal decisions about this were not vague at all. The change fee was going away.

Delta has also been "planning" on free wifi and people wearing robot suits loading planes. Doesn't mean they will ever do it or did. Just means they talked about it.

United actually did it and announced it. Nobody on this site knows if/when Delta was actually going to make this change before United announced.

Delta likes to announce things long before they've actually decided or worked out if it's even feasible.

https://news.delta.com/delta-takes-firs ... mited-test
https://news.delta.com/delta-first-airl ... e-strength


The robot exoskeleton and having enough bandwidth for free WiFi are things where Delta is waiting for others to make the technology ready. Not the same thing as this at all.

Delta also said free messaging for all, and that rolled out rather quickly.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2977
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:21 pm

0newair0 wrote:
Who's rewriting history?

Point is Delta was planning on doing this and has been public about it since 2019.

Internal decisions about this were not vague at all. The change fee was going away.



The operative word in your post is planning planning to do someone and actually doing it is two different things. Since Delta has been talking about this sine 2019 when were they planning (there is that word again) on pulling the trigger?

Delta waived change fees just like United during this pandemic but they didn't actually pull the trigger and eliminate change fees until after United made their announcement. As a UA insider I can tell you United was not planning (there is that word again) the elimination of change fees in 2019. This wasn't even discussed internally until we were in the thick of this pandemic, and yet UA somehow pulled the trigger to eliminate change fees before DL even though DL has been planning (again) to eliminate change fees since 2019.

If United had not move on this issue Delta would still be planning all while taking no action. I respect Delta Airlines but on this issue they were all talk until United was all action.
 
luv2cattlecall
Posts: 826
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:21 pm

IPFreely wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
Who's rewriting history?

Point is Delta was planning on doing this and has been public about it since 2019.

Internal decisions about this were not vague at all. The change fee was going away.


So are you saying Delta was first by announcing elimination of change fees in December, 2019, and was going to implement this on August 31, 2020? And it is just a coincidence that United eliminated their change fee on August 30, 2020?


I'm guessing that Delta's 2019 announcement that this was coming definitely influenced United's decision to do it, but either way United definitely gets the credit for being the first mover.


If Delta said they were eventually going to eliminate seat recline, and United beat them to the punch in announcing specifics, I'm sure the "Delta announced it first" crowd would be the first to say United eliminated recline first.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:33 pm

luv2cattlecall wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
Who's rewriting history?

Point is Delta was planning on doing this and has been public about it since 2019.

Internal decisions about this were not vague at all. The change fee was going away.

Delta has also been "planning" on free wifi and people wearing robot suits loading planes. Doesn't mean they will ever do it or did. Just means they talked about it.

United actually did it and announced it. Nobody on this site knows if/when Delta was actually going to make this change before United announced.

Delta likes to announce things long before they've actually decided or worked out if it's even feasible.

https://news.delta.com/delta-takes-firs ... mited-test
https://news.delta.com/delta-first-airl ... e-strength


The robot exoskeleton and having enough bandwidth for free WiFi are things where Delta is waiting for others to make the technology ready. Not the same thing as this at all.

Delta also said free messaging for all, and that rolled out rather quickly.

Delta has wifi on its entire fleet and has for a long time with a pay wall to purchase and high speed wifi on most of their fleet. They could've done it a long time ago within the constraints of technology or just not "announced" it until they knew they actually could provide free wifi. Instead, they chose to "announce" with no clear technological ability or actual timeline to provide free wifi, just like this change fee comment from late 2019.

Point is, don't confuse Delta "talking" about potential changes with any concrete plans to actually do it on any timeline, like change fees.

United did the work and announced the action. They were the only ones willing to decide on change fees. Delta followed. AA followed United's lead too.

https://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2 ... fault.aspx
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:29 pm

Okay guys, this thread isn't about who did what first. It's about Delta eliminating change fees. All airlines are reactionary, and some beat others to the punch first. Having an argument about it is silly, and this isn't the place for it. Please stay on topic, or comments will be removed.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:16 pm

This is a lot to do about nothing. The change fees have not been waived for Basic Economy. This is nothing more than a half hearted publicity stunt by the airlines. Full fare economy for the most part never had change fees.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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ua900
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:18 am

klm617 wrote:
This is a lot to do about nothing. The change fees have not been waived for Basic Economy. This is nothing more than a half hearted publicity stunt by the airlines. Full fare economy for the most part never had change fees.


Agreed that it's mostly a PR move as long as planes are empty enough to accommodate this policy. As concessions go, it's probably needed right now to have travel bounce back.

FWIW, Delta's (and AA's and UA's) move includes tickets for Basic Economy or international travel that are issued by December 31, 2020, which can also be changed without change fees.

Personally, as someone who flies international a lot, I'd love to see that extended or eliminated permanently as well.
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N649DL
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Re: Delta follows United: permanently eliminates change fees

Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:17 am

0newair0 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
https://news.delta.com/building-its-demonstrated-commitment-flexibility-customers-delta-eliminates-change-fees

Great to see!

United beat Delta to the punch on this. Delta had been planning on doing this since the end of 2019, just failed to pull the trigger before United.

Ed made public mention of eliminating the change fees during the profit sharing day media circuit.


Delta has always been more lenient than UA with change fees though. For instance a few weeks ago when I moved back from Austin to Los Angeles, my car was delayed in the shipping process and I had to move my flight around. Coincidentally, the inbound flight got diverted to SAT because of Severe Thunderstorms which shut down Bergstrom Int'l and I was able to move the flight back a day with no change fee. Then the shipping carrier had to delay the pickup another day and because of the weather disruption from the day prior, DL comped the flight move another day for free and moved me to the nonstop AUS-LAX flight (original flight had me going through SLC.)

Compare that to back in July 2013 when I flew UA from EWR-LAX (also moving back to L.A.) and I used miles for the flight because award availability into the F cabin on a one way was pretty open. I remember I had to change it twice for family reasons and each time got nailed with a $150-200 change fee. It didn't matter that I used miles for the flight, it was policy. They were particularly nice about it on the phone doing so either.

IDK about UA, but DL also allowed you to change up your flight for free within a 24 hour time window up to 12am the next day. That came in handy quite a few times. "Same Day Confirmed" used to also work well if I wanted to switch to a flight with better upgrade options or move a flight to later on in the day. Once the flights became jam packed within the last few years, that option never seemed to work anymore.

UA did have "Fare Lock" which I thought was always underrated and I used it if I was unsure about travel plans but wanted to hold the fare. You were able to hold a flight option at the same fare for around 5ish days (I think) and it was like $20 or something.

I think what both UA and DL realized is that they probably don't make a ton of money off of change fees anyway and the process of reissuing tickets (at least with DL) was always a time consuming process for agents at least over the phone. It's a nice move by both airlines, especially right now.

luv2cattlecall wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
Who's rewriting history?

Point is Delta was planning on doing this and has been public about it since 2019.

Internal decisions about this were not vague at all. The change fee was going away.

Delta has also been "planning" on free wifi and people wearing robot suits loading planes. Doesn't mean they will ever do it or did. Just means they talked about it.

United actually did it and announced it. Nobody on this site knows if/when Delta was actually going to make this change before United announced.

Delta likes to announce things long before they've actually decided or worked out if it's even feasible.

https://news.delta.com/delta-takes-firs ... mited-test
https://news.delta.com/delta-first-airl ... e-strength


The robot exoskeleton and having enough bandwidth for free WiFi are things where Delta is waiting for others to make the technology ready. Not the same thing as this at all.

Delta also said free messaging for all, and that rolled out rather quickly.


I'd love to see either one of them offer free Wi-Fi (I'll wager UA will do this next) since Gogo is such a overpriced P.O.S. system on DL. I also never got their free messaging platform to work on the iPhone either.

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