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klm617
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Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:38 pm

I thought it would be pretty cool to have a discussion about airlines that placed orders for aircraft that were never delivered and why those aircraft were never delivered.

Some that come to mind are.

Southern MD80
Libyan Arab Airlines 747
Western Airlines Boeing 747
Ozark Boeing 727
Mohawk Boeing 727
Lake Central Boeing 737
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:52 pm

Allegheny A300B2 (CAB denied request one year before EA; said AL needed to “buy American”)
Continental A340-300 (aircraft ended up with CX)
Hawaiian A330-800neo (carrier chose 787-9 instead)
Northwest A340-300 (with IAE SuperFan, no less)
Pan Am A320 (order transferred to Braniff II, then America West)
Alaska MD-90 (decided on 737 at last minute)
Continental 767-300ER (built but NTU; DL got some -324s)
Iran Air 777-9 (sanctions on new-build Boeing and Airbus jets)
Emirates A340-600 (determined to be too thirsty)
Transaero 747-8I (two frames were built and will be the next Air Force One)
Cathay Pacific DC-10 (British government ordered them to buy the L-1011 due to Rolls engines)
British Airways DC-10-50 (proposed RB211-524 powered DC-10 scrapped after BA chose L-1011-500)
TWA A330-300 (delayed many times, converted into A318s, then killed with AA merger)
Delta and American DC-XX (proposed Boeing 757 competitor)
Delta and United Mercure 200/ASMR (CFM56-powered Mercure stretch to have been license built by McDonnell Douglas)


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Antarius
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:53 pm

USAir/AA a350s

In this case it was due to change of circumstances due to the merger. The combined entity had a large 777 fleet and 787s arriving and on order. Coupled with a young a332 fleet, the new AA didn't need yet another widebody type.
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concordeforever
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:57 pm

Northwest 787. Airline "merged" with Delta and order pushed back, and back, and back......
 
PB26
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:57 pm

TAM - A318 and E195;
Transbrasil - A300-200, B757-200, B777-200, ERJ-145;
VASP - A310-200, Caravelle, DC 9-10.
Rio and all South America by Panair do Brasil’s jets.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:07 pm

concordeforever wrote:
Northwest 787. Airline "merged" with Delta and order pushed back, and back, and back......

The order was not pushed back and back and back.
It was formally and definitely canceled.
If you disagree with my statement, assume that it was just a joke :duck:
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:18 pm

Antaras wrote:
concordeforever wrote:
Northwest 787. Airline "merged" with Delta and order pushed back, and back, and back......

The order was not pushed back and back and back.
It was formally and definitely canceled.


After it had been delayed for years. It was still listed as a formal purchase commitment in the annual report of Feb. 2016. The ann report of March 2009 called for delivery of six in 2013.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:29 pm

Please correct me if im wrong but here goes

PSA L-1011
TWA Caravelle
Midway Connection DO328n turbo prop
 
Fatbus
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:29 pm

EK -A346
 
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Channex757
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:31 pm

British Caledonian MD-81. BCal were negotiating about the time Laker went bust. The order never happened; BCal bought the A320 instead.
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:35 pm

RJNUT wrote:
Please correct me if im wrong but here goes

PSA L-1011
TWA Caravelle
Midway Connection DO328n turbo prop

PSA operated the L-1011 “Mother Grinningbird” on LAX-SFO in 1973-74.


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marky
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:51 pm

Air Europe MD-11
Virgin A380
FedEx A380
Singapore Airlines MD-11
Plenty of Concorde ‘orders’ that never came to pass
America West 747-400

Must be lots more!
 
CanadianNorth
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:56 pm

A few off the top of my head...

Wardair MD-88: Ordered for their post-regulation expansion into domestic scheduled flying, but before any were delivered they were bought out by Canadian who cancelled the orders and instead standardized on the 737.

Wardair F100: Same story.

CP Air 767-200: Ordered in the late 1970s to replace some of their DC-8s, but by the mid 80s their finances and route structure were changing and the 767 order was switched to 737-300s (which did fly for a short time, though the -300 fleet was sold off before they were all delivered in favour of standardizing on the much larger fleet of 737-200s).

Canadian Pacific Comet: Two Comet 1s were ordered, the first one crashed on the delivery flight, and the order for the second one was subsequently cancelled. Comet IIs were talked about but nothing came of it.

Air Canada A340-600: Ordered along with the A340-500s, but prior do being delivered they were put off for a while and eventually cancelled in favour of the large 777 order that eventually replaced the A340-300s and -500s in service and -600s on order.

Maybe - Canadian Dornier 728: I had it in my head that Canadian or Canadian Regional had signed up or at least was on the verge of signing up for the 728JET, which never did fly, as an F.28 replacement, but of course now I can't for the life of me find a reference to that.
Last edited by CanadianNorth on Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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A320GOUZO
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:56 pm

Air Europe MD-11

Was supposed to become the launch customer for the RR Trent version. Unfortunately went bust in 1991.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:02 am

Qatar Airways A320neo

Fatbus wrote:
EK -A346


Didn't they have A330-300s on order also at one point?
First to fly the 787-9
 
dcajet
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:06 am

klm617 wrote:
I thought it would be pretty cool to have a discussion about airlines that placed orders for aircraft that were never delivered and why those aircraft were never delivered.

Some that come to mind are.


Libyan Arab Airlines 747


Those 3 747-2L5B ended up with VARIG as PP-VNA/B/C.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:07 am

America West: A318--switched to A319
Delta: used ERJ-190 (I don't know if this was official) --got good deal on A220s
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
n729pa
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:56 am

[twoid][/twoid]
dcajet wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I thought it would be pretty cool to have a discussion about airlines that placed orders for aircraft that were never delivered and why those aircraft were never delivered.

Some that come to mind are.


Libyan Arab Airlines 747


Those 3 747-2L5B ended up with VARIG as PP-VNA/B/C.


Isn't a picture about of a 747 wearing the LAA colours but the aircraft were never taken up and as you say picked up by RG instead.
 
dcajet
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:52 am

n729pa wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
dcajet wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I thought it would be pretty cool to have a discussion about airlines that placed orders for aircraft that were never delivered and why those aircraft were never delivered.

Some that come to mind are.


Libyan Arab Airlines 747


Those 3 747-2L5B ended up with VARIG as PP-VNA/B/C.


Isn't a picture about of a 747 wearing the LAA colours but the aircraft were never taken up and as you say picked up by RG instead.


At least 2 of them did, seen here at the flight line in Everett:

Image
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Philippine747
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:39 am

TWA signed MOUs for A330s in the early 1990s but it never came to fruition. They were also interested in the A318 as well IIRC.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/denon/2849946940

Northwest also ordered A340s in 1987 but cancelled once the IAE Superfan was scrubbed.

https://northwestairlineshistory.org/ai ... rbus-a340/

Garuda had orders for the 777-200 in the late 90s but cancelled them due to their financial situation.
A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 AT75 AT76 B732 B733 B738 B744 B752(M) B763 B772 B77W DHC7 DH8C DH8D D328 MA60

2P 5J 6K CX DG EK GA KE MI PR VN OS QR A3 OK TG RA U4 JL GK UB K7 WE BR
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:02 am

klm617 wrote:
I thought it would be pretty cool to have a discussion about airlines that placed orders for aircraft that were never delivered and why those aircraft were never delivered.

Some that come to mind

Ozark Boeing 727


Two ordered and built, but never delivered. Both frames ended up going to Pan Am.

Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
Flanker7
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:28 am

KLM Boeing 2707 sst,project never got of the ground.
Flying blue only if possible
 
jetwet1
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:14 pm

Alitalia 747-400, changed to 777's.

VS took them instead.
 
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CV990A
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:39 pm

Didn't Continental also have A340s on order at some point? I used to have a model of one in their livery that I bought at EWR in the mid-90s.

(I'd also love to know whatever my parents did with the model)
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
PB26
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:33 pm

PB26 wrote:
TAM - A318 and E195;
Transbrasil - A300-200, B757-200, B777-200, ERJ-145;
VASP - A310-200, Caravelle, DC 9-10.

I forgot Transbrasil's B727-2Q4, two frames were built and went tô Mexicana.

After years, one of them flew with Vasp's cargo unit as PP-SFG.
Rio and all South America by Panair do Brasil’s jets.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:58 pm

Aer Lingus
Air Canada
Air France
Air India
Airlift International
Alitalia
American
BOAC
Braniff
Canadian Pacific
Continental
Delta
Eastern
El Al
Iberia
JAL
KLM
Lufthansa
Northwest
Pakistan International
Pan American
Qantas
Trans-Am.
TWA
United
World Airways

They all ordered the dead in the water Boeing 2707.
Boeing is re-engining the 707 tonight, with Shinkai as the CEO and FLAIRPORT as the CFO. He has the 757 tooling in giant snowglobe that tracks flights.
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WALmsp
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:09 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
Allegheny A300B2 (CAB denied request one year before EA; said AL needed to “buy American”)


Didn't that also happen to Western Airlines with the same aircraft?
In memory of my Dad, Robert "Bob" Fenrich, WAL 1964-1979, MSP ONT LAX
 
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klm617
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:41 pm

n729pa wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
dcajet wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I thought it would be pretty cool to have a discussion about airlines that placed orders for aircraft that were never delivered and why those aircraft were never delivered.

Some that come to mind are.


Libyan Arab Airlines 747


Those 3 747-2L5B ended up with VARIG as PP-VNA/B/C.


Isn't a picture about of a 747 wearing the LAA colours but the aircraft were never taken up and as you say picked up by RG instead.


Correct.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:42 pm

Also China Airlines DC-10-30
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:43 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
Allegheny A300B2 (CAB denied request one year before EA; said AL needed to “buy American”)
Continental A340-300 (aircraft ended up with CX)
Hawaiian A330-800neo (carrier chose 787-9 instead)
Northwest A340-300 (with IAE SuperFan, no less)
Pan Am A320 (order transferred to Braniff II, then America West)
Alaska MD-90 (decided on 737 at last minute)
Continental 767-300ER (built but NTU; DL got some -324s)
Iran Air 777-9 (sanctions on new-build Boeing and Airbus jets)
Emirates A340-600 (determined to be too thirsty)
Transaero 747-8I (two frames were built and will be the next Air Force One)
Cathay Pacific DC-10 (British government ordered them to buy the L-1011 due to Rolls engines)
British Airways DC-10-50 (proposed RB211-524 powered DC-10 scrapped after BA chose L-1011-500)
TWA A330-300 (delayed many times, converted into A318s, then killed with AA merger)
Delta and American DC-XX (proposed Boeing 757 competitor)
Delta and United Mercure 200/ASMR (CFM56-powered Mercure stretch to have been license built by McDonnell Douglas)


Would be interested in hearing more about the Allegheny A300's


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the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
FGITD
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:18 pm

I don't believe any of the 2707 orders were actual orders. More just letters of intent/delivery spot reservations.

Which if you start getting into LOIs, this list becomes gargantuan
 
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ER757
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:32 pm

Alaska Airlines - B747
AA - 747-400. Wouldn't have been new builds though. They were going to aquire to from Canadian if they had been granted ORD/NRT flights which instead went to UA
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:36 pm

Iberia A318-100s

would have been fun to fly on another carrier of the tiny bus.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:50 pm

ER757 wrote:
AA - 747-400. Wouldn't have been new builds though. They were going to aquire to from Canadian if they had been granted ORD/NRT flights which instead went to UA

AA and CP had a very deep partnership at the time - codeshares, oneworld charter members, 24.9% ownership by AMR of CP, and co-building YYZ T3.

Not surprised.


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TheEuphorian
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:35 pm

-US secondhand A340-500: Originally meant to be sourced from TG, which was looking to get rid of the A345 fleet in around 2009-2010, but never materialized.
-GA 777-200 and 787 orders
-MH 777-200LR and 777-300ER orders
 
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klm617
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:31 pm

Also would it be true to say there were never any factory new MD80s delivered in Canada ?
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
FWAERJ
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:52 pm

klm617 wrote:
Also would it be true to say there were never any factory new MD80s delivered in Canada ?


Not sure, but we have to remember that the A320 won out over the 737 and MD-80, the A330 won out over more 763ERs, and the A340 won out over more 744s due to what is considered one of the largest bribery scandals in Canadian history. Even in 2005, I heard Canadians talk about this 1980s scandal.
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
CanadianNorth
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:22 am

klm617 wrote:
Also would it be true to say there were never any factory new MD80s delivered in Canada ?


I'm open to corrections of course, but the only C- registered MD-80s I can think of are the MD-83s that Jetsgo flew, which were all previously-enjoyed airframes. The only factory order I can name is the MD-88s for Wardair, which as mentioned earlier were cancelled before delivery as Canadi>n had bought Wardair and at the time was standardizing on a much larger fleet of mostly paid for 737-200s and DC-10s.*

*Edit: Upon further reading looks like CP may have also already had a fresh order for A320s at the time. As a side note I'm getting much of this from the book Wing Walkers - The Rise and Fall of Canada's Other Airline, a little long winded in some areas but overall an excellent read and must-have for anyone interested in Canadian aviation history.
HS-748, like a 747 but better!
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:49 pm

Icelandair 787-8 (production slots later sold off to Norwegian)
Icelandair Cargo A330F
Kingfisher A350
Kingfisher A380
Virgin Atlantic A380
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
vfw614
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:26 pm

With reference to my username...

Federal Express VFW614
 
TheEuphorian
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:36 pm

More:
-SJ secondhand 777-200ER order
-SQ MD-11
-D7 A330-200; originally meant to replace D7's ex-AC A340-300s on its European routes, but it was cancelled.
-QF 777-200
-SL ATR72-600
 
N965UW
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:54 pm

FWAERJ wrote:
Continental 767-300ER (built but NTU; DL got some -324s)


Atlas got one too (N645GT). The only one to carry a globe on its tail as originally intended (albeit the Atlas globe, not the Continental one).
You can always go around
 
trent768
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:10 am

TheEuphorian wrote:
-GA 777-200 and 787 orders

Man, GA's 772 order (along with the rest of undelivered 744s) could probably won the record for the longest deferral ever at 17 years. Started with 772s in 1996, then to the futuristic but unflyable shark-fin-tailled 7E7, then to the more aerodynamically sensible but boring looking 787, and finally to the 77Ws that actually got delivered in 2013.

I've always wondered what happened if GA actually took delivery of the 772s as scheduled. The 7 years suspension of CGK-AMS would probably never happened since they never had to flew the 744 there during the early 2000s. Since they would probably never ordered the 77W, they'll went for the 789/A350 as the replacement, which is the perfect sized aircraft for them. I still believe that those 77W are way too big for GA, saves for JED and NRT/HND. Although, there is a big chance that they went bust in that periods because they can't afford to pay the lease.
 
aeromoe
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:03 am

Cubana 707-139 x2. NTU for political reasons. Delivered to Western Airlines.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
aeromoe
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:04 am

klm617 wrote:
Also China Airlines DC-10-30


Fully painted at LGB...not taken up. Photo by my long-time friend Frank C. Duarte may be in the database.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
aeromoe
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:05 am

WALmsp wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
Allegheny A300B2 (CAB denied request one year before EA; said AL needed to “buy American”)


Didn't that also happen to Western Airlines with the same aircraft?


Don't know about the A300 but Western did have several 767-247 orders that were cancelled.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:22 am

TheEuphorian wrote:
More:
-SJ secondhand 777-200ER order
-SQ MD-11
-D7 A330-200; originally meant to replace D7's ex-AC A340-300s on its European routes, but it was cancelled.
-QF 777-200
-SL ATR72-600


QF never ordered the 777-200.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:57 pm

Domestic carrier Indian Airlines supposedly ordered 3 757-200M QC Combi aircraft that were ntu as Indian Airlines ordered the A320 instead.

Indian Airlines Buys Boeing 757's
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:29 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I thought it would be pretty cool to have a discussion about airlines that placed orders for aircraft that were never delivered and why those aircraft were never delivered.

Some that come to mind

Ozark Boeing 727


Two ordered and built, but never delivered. Both frames ended up going to Pan Am.



Ozark was coming off a mechanic's strike at the time and sold them off to PA for a small profit, IIRC. The cash came in handy, though OZ execs were very sorry to see them go.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Airline orders that never were.

Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:31 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I thought it would be pretty cool to have a discussion about airlines that placed orders for aircraft that were never delivered and why those aircraft were never delivered.

Some that come to mind

Ozark Boeing 727


Two ordered and built, but never delivered. Both frames ended up going to Pan Am.



Ozark was coming off a mechanic's strike at the time and sold them off to PA for a small profit, IIRC. The cash came in handy, though OZ execs were very sorry to see them go. Fun fact: the 727 livery was designed by Boeing and became OZ's new/final livery.
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream

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