Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
geardown wrote:They cannot sell seats between PPT-YVR-PPT and CDG-YVR-CDG.
geardown wrote:They cannot sell seats between PPT-YVR-PPT and CDG-YVR-CDG.
ATLgaUSA wrote:geardown wrote:They cannot sell seats between PPT-YVR-PPT and CDG-YVR-CDG.
Why? Each endpoint is in France.
ATLgaUSA wrote:geardown wrote:They cannot sell seats between PPT-YVR-PPT and CDG-YVR-CDG.
Why? Each endpoint is in France.
geardown wrote:ATLgaUSA wrote:geardown wrote:They cannot sell seats between PPT-YVR-PPT and CDG-YVR-CDG.
Why? Each endpoint is in France.
Vancouver is only a pit stop to get more gas/food. The flight is technically PPT - CDG - PPT.
Air Tahiti Nui (and I'm guessing AF and French Bee) has no 5th freedom agreement between Canada and Tahiti so they cannot sell seats between YVR and PPT. I am also guessing this is the same between YVR and CDG.
geardown wrote:They cannot sell seats between PPT-YVR-PPT and CDG-YVR-CDG.
9252fly wrote:geardown wrote:ATLgaUSA wrote:
Why? Each endpoint is in France.
Vancouver is only a pit stop to get more gas/food. The flight is technically PPT - CDG - PPT.
Air Tahiti Nui (and I'm guessing AF and French Bee) has no 5th freedom agreement between Canada and Tahiti so they cannot sell seats between YVR and PPT. I am also guessing this is the same between YVR and CDG.
My understanding is that 5th freedom refers to a third country. Using the topic as an example, CDG - YVR - LAX would be considered 5th freedom. Tahiti is for all intents and purposes French territory.
Cubsrule wrote:
Do Canada and the EU have Open Skies?
Thenoflyzone wrote:Cubsrule wrote:
Do Canada and the EU have Open Skies?
Yes, but for some reason, Canada - Tahiti rights are still covered by the old 1970s agreement between Canada and France.
Regardless, as I said, all three airlines have the rights, be choose not to exercise them.
dcajet wrote:Thenoflyzone wrote:Cubsrule wrote:
Do Canada and the EU have Open Skies?
Yes, but for some reason, Canada - Tahiti rights are still covered by the old 1970s agreement between Canada and France.
Regardless, as I said, all three airlines have the rights, be choose not to exercise them.
Because Tahiti, and other DOM-TOM (Départements d'outre-mer, Territoires d'outre-mer) while part of France, are not technically part of the European Union. Hence why the France - Canada bilateral applies.
Thibault973 wrote:dcajet wrote:Thenoflyzone wrote:
Yes, but for some reason, Canada - Tahiti rights are still covered by the old 1970s agreement between Canada and France.
Regardless, as I said, all three airlines have the rights, be choose not to exercise them.
Because Tahiti, and other DOM-TOM (Départements d'outre-mer, Territoires d'outre-mer) while part of France, are not technically part of the European Union. Hence why the France - Canada bilateral applies.
Départements d'outre-mer are very much part of the EU. We are PTOMs (pays et territoires d'Outre-mer de l'Union Européenne, like Madeira, Azores and the Canary Islands). We are just not part of Schengen.
geardown wrote:Air Tahiti Nui (and I'm guessing AF and French Bee) has no 5th freedom agreement between Canada and Tahiti so they cannot sell seats between YVR and PPT. I am also guessing this is the same between YVR and CDG.
ATLgaUSA wrote:Why? Each endpoint is in France.
Thibault973 wrote:dcajet wrote:Thenoflyzone wrote:
Yes, but for some reason, Canada - Tahiti rights are still covered by the old 1970s agreement between Canada and France.
Regardless, as I said, all three airlines have the rights, be choose not to exercise them.
Because Tahiti, and other DOM-TOM (Départements d'outre-mer, Territoires d'outre-mer) while part of France, are not technically part of the European Union. Hence why the France - Canada bilateral applies.
Départements d'outre-mer are very much part of the EU. We are PTOMs (pays et territoires d'Outre-mer de l'Union Européenne, like Madeira, Azores and the Canary Islands). We are just not part of Schengen.
2travel2know2 wrote:B.T.W. tech-stops in either YYC or YWG would make the distance flown lower than vie YVR:
ytib wrote:2travel2know2 wrote:B.T.W. tech-stops in either YYC or YWG would make the distance flown lower than vie YVR:
With a YVR stop (which is not that much further) you eliminate having to transit US airspace as well and overflight fees. With YYC and YWG with a great circle route you would cross US airspace.
Polot wrote:ytib wrote:2travel2know2 wrote:B.T.W. tech-stops in either YYC or YWG would make the distance flown lower than vie YVR:
With a YVR stop (which is not that much further) you eliminate having to transit US airspace as well and overflight fees. With YYC and YWG with a great circle route you would cross US airspace.
The PPT-YVR flights still often go through US airspace, and that’s ignoring the US controlled airspace they all have to fly through in the Pacific.
AF has service at YVR already, which means they already have contracts in place for fuel, handling aircraft, etc. If they can carry local traffic YVR is also a larger market.
mercure1 wrote:Due to U.S. entry restrictions result of COVID. TN also operated via YVR. Additionally, some flights have routed ia PTP - Pointe-a-Pitre Guadeloupe
Both airlines certainly losing money with YVR stop due missed demand to/from LAX which is a top demand market from French Polynesia.
ytib wrote:True, from YVR towards PPT, there's not even the need to fly over SEA (Washington State), plane heads to Victoria Island and then south to Tahiti.2travel2know2 wrote:B.T.W. tech-stops in either YYC or YWG would make the distance flown lower than vie YVR:
With a YVR stop (which is not that much further) you eliminate having to transit US airspace as well and overflight fees. With YYC and YWG with a great circle route you would cross US airspace.
ATLgaUSA wrote:geardown wrote:They cannot sell seats between PPT-YVR-PPT and CDG-YVR-CDG.
Why? Each endpoint is in France.
Travellers coming from outside the US who are exempt from the travel restrictions
[...]
- transiting passengers (must remain in the secure transit area of a Canadian airport to complete their connection)
[...]
- French citizens who live in Saint-Pierre and Miquelon and have been in only Canada, the US or Saint-Pierre and Miquelon during the 14 days before the day they seek to enter Canada
2travel2know2 wrote:there's not even the need to fly over SEA (Washington State), plane heads to Victoria Island and then south to Tahiti.
makaturing wrote:My mistake, Victoria, the town on Vancouver Island.2travel2know2 wrote:there's not even the need to fly over SEA (Washington State), plane heads to Victoria Island and then south to Tahiti.
Victoria Island is in the Arctic. That would be a very inconvenient route to Tahiti.
Aliqiout wrote:Thibault973 wrote:dcajet wrote:
Because Tahiti, and other DOM-TOM (Départements d'outre-mer, Territoires d'outre-mer) while part of France, are not technically part of the European Union. Hence why the France - Canada bilateral applies.
Départements d'outre-mer are very much part of the EU. We are PTOMs (pays et territoires d'Outre-mer de l'Union Européenne, like Madeira, Azores and the Canary Islands). We are just not part of Schengen.
Madeira, Azores, and the Canary Islands are what are called in English, "Outermost Regions", these territories are part of the EU, however; Tahiti, is part of French Polynesia, which is not an Outermost Territory. French Polynesia is one of the, "Overseas Countries and Territories", which are EU nation dependents, but not part of the EU. Other examples of Overseas Countries and Territories are Greenland, and Aruba.
I'll leave it to others to explain what this means for commercial passenger aviation.