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RvA
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:50 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
Polot wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:

I know that it's been that way for a while, I'm just pointing out how terrible LH is becoming as a whole intra-europe. Connecting in Europe for *A becomes worse and worse.

LH/Star is not unique in that regard, especially if you are comparing US domestic F service with Euro J service.

As I mentioned this is going to become the new norm. Get used to it.


US Domestic F is far Superior to European J - except Turkish and Aeroflot.

Of course I'll get used to it, but now I have even less reason to book any particular airline/alliance.


Even less reason... so the fact you would get a KitKat or coffee included was really part of the buying decision? Serious question I find it interesting. It is seriously the last thing I think about when I need to or want to go somewhere.
 
RvA
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:51 pm

fil87 wrote:
RvA wrote:
[*]
fil87 wrote:
For Swiss, this will be a complete total disaster. I live in Zurich and customers here will NEVER accept this new service level.


So do you see people what, flying via CDG to be able to get a coffee on their flight for free?


Very easy: the number of customers switching to another (better) Star Alliance carrier will increase. Quite a number of Swiss German colleagues of mine have switched to Turkish Airlines or EgyptAir already.


To go where? Western/Northern Europe? Going further out beyond IST/CAI you‘re in Long Haul service territory for Swiss surely anyway? Or do they go to London from Zurich via Istanbul?
 
oldJoe
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:01 pm

chonetsao wrote :
So, for someone travelling long haul, it is better to fly ME3 to Asia or Africa as both legs are full service, or fly non-stop on any carrier to north America if you have one that does non-stop from your local airpor


Did you read the article ?
Clearly written : This won’t apply in business class, and won’t apply in long haul economy.
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:21 pm

fil87 wrote:
For Swiss, this will be a complete total disaster. I live in Zurich and customers here will NEVER accept this new service level.


And their choice will be what? Taking the train to London? Bus to Paris?
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:30 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
JJR wrote:
I understand that they need to to this to better compete with LCC, but the problem is that their cost structure doesn’t let the legacy carriers compete with the likes of Ryanair or Wizz by offering 30€ fares regularly.

So, if the only thing that could justify flying a legacy was a somewhat better service and that’s fading away. Some of those who used to fly Lufthansa will end up in an Easyjet flight paying 20€ less for the same service given that the schedules work.

Bottom line is who do they want to appeal with this move: LCC flyers who will fly the cheapest option possible or their consumer base who is used to the past level of service with cheaper fares?


That is well put. The art of marketing is figuring out what people will pay for, and how much. (Think of the instant success of early iPhone.)

No, LH, BA, AF, etc., have cost bases much too high to compete straight-up on price. That forces an uncomfortable question for short-haul: Why pay more for an essentially identical product?


It's ignoring the reality in Europe. I agree, BA, LH, AF have not got the cost basis to compete with FR or U2. But going for higher service levels is throwing money out of the window. Customers time again say they are not prepared to pay for anything they don't use. That is the new norm. To cater to the few who sit in economy and don't care about cost is cutting it too fine. It's time to accept that the world has moved on and airlines are moving with it. Why offer anything for free (and make no mistake, even a small cost adds up to millions quickly) if the majority of your customers don't value it? Is it not better to offer a product that suits 80% of your customers than one that suits 20%?
 
n729pa
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:10 pm

On an advance ticket for a "day return" , LH are not a LCC carrier when it comes to fares and I find they charge a much higher fare LHR-MUC or LHR-FRA (one way) than BA do on their return ticket. Swiss fare wise are similar or slight better LHR-GVA/ZRH than BA. OS are also significantly more expensive LHR-VIE than BA. So for someone who prior to this year would fly BA approx 30 times in a year and as a OW FF it would suit me to fly BA and the others sometimes for a bit of variety. Personally I'm not too bothered if the average sandwich or piece if cake disappears. But a basic drink tea/coffee should still be provided. The customer can then decide whether they want to pay for some thing to eat or get it in the terminal before hand. You have to pay then you might get a better product and more choice.
 
WorldFlier
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:54 pm

RvA wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:
Polot wrote:
LH/Star is not unique in that regard, especially if you are comparing US domestic F service with Euro J service.

As I mentioned this is going to become the new norm. Get used to it.


US Domestic F is far Superior to European J - except Turkish and Aeroflot.

Of course I'll get used to it, but now I have even less reason to book any particular airline/alliance.


Even less reason... so the fact you would get a KitKat or coffee included was really part of the buying decision? Serious question I find it interesting. It is seriously the last thing I think about when I need to or want to go somewhere.


On Swiss (pre-COVID) the breakfasts from ZRH to DME (in coach) were actually pretty decent (by airline standards), and if they cut out every little last good thing out of flying Swiss...then I might as well book a ULCC for the Intra-Europe connection. Also, when you're flying for 18-20 hours straight with 2 short connections (XXX-EWR/ORD/SFO-ZRH/FRA/VIE-YYY) and overpriced airport "food"...the food on board starts to matter. Now if I have a couple hours, the lounges make up for it...but often times the connections are way too short to enjoy the lounge (and "Business" class is literally a joke).

Ironically, adding the intra-europe flight usually made the overall itinerary significantly cheaper...so this would really only affect my decision making if I were already in Europe.

Frankly, there is literally almost no difference now between LH and EasyJet in coach other than Lufthansa Group is now significantly more expensive for literally no reason.

Oh, and full disclosure - if they offered me a $25 option to buy ahead of time a normal, high quality meal on my intra-europe flight...I would do it every single time.
 
RvA
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:28 pm

WorldFlier wrote:
RvA wrote:
WorldFlier wrote:

US Domestic F is far Superior to European J - except Turkish and Aeroflot.

Of course I'll get used to it, but now I have even less reason to book any particular airline/alliance.


Even less reason... so the fact you would get a KitKat or coffee included was really part of the buying decision? Serious question I find it interesting. It is seriously the last thing I think about when I need to or want to go somewhere.


On Swiss (pre-COVID) the breakfasts from ZRH to DME (in coach) were actually pretty decent (by airline standards), and if they cut out every little last good thing out of flying Swiss...then I might as well book a ULCC for the Intra-Europe connection. Also, when you're flying for 18-20 hours straight with 2 short connections (XXX-EWR/ORD/SFO-ZRH/FRA/VIE-YYY) and overpriced airport "food"...the food on board starts to matter. Now if I have a couple hours, the lounges make up for it...but often times the connections are way too short to enjoy the lounge (and "Business" class is literally a joke).

Ironically, adding the intra-europe flight usually made the overall itinerary significantly cheaper...so this would really only affect my decision making if I were already in Europe.

Frankly, there is literally almost no difference now between LH and EasyJet in coach other than Lufthansa Group is now significantly more expensive for literally no reason.

Oh, and full disclosure - if they offered me a $25 option to buy ahead of time a normal, high quality meal on my intra-europe flight...I would do it every single time.


ZRH-DME isn’t a short hop but I get your point. I particularly have ZRH-FRA, LHR-ZRH/FRA in mind that I have done a lot and you really only get a croissant or whatever now anyway so didn’t see the loss. Coffee, yeah sure but can just as easily do with water. Coming off a longhaul you’ll likely have been fed not long before landing anyway I presume though?

Either way when you get something it’s a nice to have but really cannot see this costing them much if any business at all. Never nice when something is “taken away” but I think in this day in age it makes sense, unfortunately.
 
max999
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:24 pm

LH does not make a profit with their short haul flights. These cuts are a sad attempt to achieve profitability, and I expect these service cuts will barely make a difference. It's just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

The industry's recovery from the pandemic will be driven by short haul and VFR pax. With LH's over reliance on business passengers and premium long haul for profit, I expect LH to continue hurting for a long time to come.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:21 pm

fil87 wrote:
For Swiss, this will be a complete total disaster. I live in Zurich and customers here will NEVER accept this new service level.


I doubt that. Zurich as a large EasyJet base, and customers seem to be happy with this low service level on EasyJet. Why wouldn't they be happy with it on Swiss?
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:11 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
fil87 wrote:
For Swiss, this will be a complete total disaster. I live in Zurich and customers here will NEVER accept this new service level.


I doubt that. Zurich as a large EasyJet base, and customers seem to be happy with this low service level on EasyJet. Why wouldn't they be happy with it on Swiss?


If Swiss was a low cost carrier, they would be one of the best!
 
chonetsao
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:55 pm

After reading so many replies on this issue. I feel that I need to speak out to correct some misconception of some posters here.

From a marketing perspective, consumers are always looking for cheaper price, at least in surveys and papers. That is true to a degree. But purchasing airline ticket is not like buying a bus ticket, or buying a Burberry or Coach handbags. You need to understand why consumers choose cheap fares as the prime choice for purchase.

So, a lesson on consumers. Consumers tend to believe companies will act on surveys. So in their mind, if they say on the survey that the product is too expensive and they want it cheaper, companies will take notice and maybe cut the price to respond. They believe if there are enough people saying they want cheaper price, the business will have no choice but to reduce the price.

That is very simple to understand, no?

So now when you receive the latest version of surveys from hotels and airlines, the new format ask consumers to rank 5-7 pre-selected criteria in different scenarios. For example, they will list a route where the airline compete with other airlines, and ask consumer to rank how they will make the purchase decision. Then they will ask consumer to rank again by change this route to a fictional route where this airline is competing with a well known LCC. In the end they will ask consumers which airlines FFP they belong to and what level they are. In the end it is not the price that matters, but the perception of value that matters. Marketing 101. It is always the VALUE, not price.

The switch from simple survey have evolved to a complexity survey that pay more attention to consumer behaviour. Why?

Because today's travellers are far more savvy than the old timers. Today's traveller have phones at hand to search for deals all the time. They read the bloggers (or rather, watch the v-loggers) and follow influencers to know the airlines and competitors before they even plan a trip. 10 years ago, an average travellers do not know the difference between legacy and LCC. Today, a 10 years old school kids know Ryanair sucks and you only pay £10.

That create a problem for airlines. Because they have a survey clearly says consumers want cheaper price, if they react to the survey, they loose the VALUE composition. If they don't, they have a problem of cost. So what bean counters do? They use the survey as example to do what they like to do: cost cutting. Although in every marketing class they have on their way to management, that it is VALUE that consumer seeking the most, not the price.

If you look at BA's history, it has done following to counter the likes of easyjet and ryanair:
1, Slash the price and bulk up capacity to drive competition out: failed (although successful against some other airlines like Lakers).
2, Replicate their business model by forming a new airline to drive competition out: failed.
3, Lower your own standard to their levels (replicate their business model in-house): on-going, still no success yet.

Lufthansa is unfortunately doing the same and following the same mistake BA did. And IAG is repeating the mistakes all the time by forming LEVEL. I wish all good luck with the legacy airlines on the on-going battle to lower yourself to the ground. My personal feeling is legacy airlines might be winning a cost-cutting war, but they are loosing the long term games. IMO they are playing a dangerous game that will fundamentally destroy their current hub-to-spoke model. But the airlines managers know best. We know little. Citing a famous oriental philosophy that we should all living in harmony. It means both legacy and LCC airlines should exist side by side with their own characteristics and specials. All legacy airlines turns to be LCC is not living in harmony. The balance is broke.

I don't think many consumers who ticked Cheapest Price in their survey answer wanted this to happen. They simply meant everyone wanted to pay less for the same thing, not paying less for less. i.e. they thought to get a discount for a Prada, not paying less to get a Michael Kors.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:40 am

They are coming for business class next:

Sources claim Lufthansa will soon only offer boxed snacks rather than serving meals on porcelain. Lufthansa did not immediately respond to a request for comment on this claim.


https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020 ... l-flights/

I think anyone hoping to get access to better meals with this buy-on-board model is naive. You only have to look at Brussels Airlines to see how they will be peddling overpriced junk food, warm meals only available for flights over 2 hours, and said warm meals most likely being cup noodles or a slice of frozen pizza. But hey, perhaps now Lufthansa can mirror BA's afternoon tea without tea offering, and sell an oktoberfest without beer package?
 
blandy62
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:15 am

[quote="Ziyulu"]I find it funny this is what they quoted:

But instead Lufthansa quotes an executive who claims:

Lufthansa is eliminating free food & drinks because the free selection hasn’t met the expectation of guests
The introduction of buy on board is due to customer feedback


Amazing how surveys get interpreted or how the question in surveys are twisted...I assume that the selection of "paid food" will meet the expectation of guests. But that question will probably never be asked, will it?
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:33 pm

At least in the US, when BOB started, it was worse food than what used to be provided complimentary. They could have given those snack boxes for free and it would be a cost savings, but instead they wanted the extra $5.
 
eurotrader85
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:32 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
fil87 wrote:
For Swiss, this will be a complete total disaster. I live in Zurich and customers here will NEVER accept this new service level.


I doubt that. Zurich as a large EasyJet base, and customers seem to be happy with this low service level on EasyJet. Why wouldn't they be happy with it on Swiss?


Obviously spoken by someone who doesn’t live in Switzerland, or remotely understand the Swiss mentality. There’s a reason people in Switzerland pay over the odds fares on LX, and it thus happens to be the jewel in the LH group crown.

Westerwaelder wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
JJR wrote:
I understand that they need to to this to better compete with LCC, but the problem is that their cost structure doesn’t let the legacy carriers compete with the likes of Ryanair or Wizz by offering 30€ fares regularly.

So, if the only thing that could justify flying a legacy was a somewhat better service and that’s fading away. Some of those who used to fly Lufthansa will end up in an Easyjet flight paying 20€ less for the same service given that the schedules work.

Bottom line is who do they want to appeal with this move: LCC flyers who will fly the cheapest option possible or their consumer base who is used to the past level of service with cheaper fares?


That is well put. The art of marketing is figuring out what people will pay for, and how much. (Think of the instant success of early iPhone.)

No, LH, BA, AF, etc., have cost bases much too high to compete straight-up on price. That forces an uncomfortable question for short-haul: Why pay more for an essentially identical product?


It's ignoring the reality in Europe. I agree, BA, LH, AF have not got the cost basis to compete with FR or U2. But going for higher service levels is throwing money out of the window. Customers time again say they are not prepared to pay for anything they don't use. That is the new norm. To cater to the few who sit in economy and don't care about cost is cutting it too fine. It's time to accept that the world has moved on and airlines are moving with it. Why offer anything for free (and make no mistake, even a small cost adds up to millions quickly) if the majority of your customers don't value it? Is it not better to offer a product that suits 80% of your customers than one that suits 20%?


Then what does a FSC provide in order to compete against LCCs while having higher cost bases and thus needing higher fares? I pay more to fly on FSC because of the service and yes that entails the offering of free food and drink amongst others. Sure some people would prefer LCC service and fares, and that is their prerogative, but since when have LX/LH been targeting people who are chasing the last dollar? I am the target audience of who FSC should chase. JJR could not put it better. At the end of the day the cost of food and drink on the plane with the buying power LH/LX have is probably less than €5 per passenger. No one who appreciates the extra service blinks an eye at the more than €5 extra fare, but they do appreciate the touch it adds to the brand, and pay accordingly.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:16 pm

Does anyone think TK is next in implementing something similar?
 
zappomatic
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:59 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
We still have KL and AF to serve meals on Europe flights. Who else does?


BA CityFlyer (in non-COVID times).
 
hoons90
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:34 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
We still have KL and AF to serve meals on Europe flights. Who else does?


When I flew TAP in January 2020, they served a cold meal in Y that consisted of a chicken salad wrap and a few pieces of fruit. This was on LIS-PDL which is approximately 2 hours long.
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:34 am

eurotrader85 wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
fil87 wrote:
For Swiss, this will be a complete total disaster. I live in Zurich and customers here will NEVER accept this new service level.


I doubt that. Zurich as a large EasyJet base, and customers seem to be happy with this low service level on EasyJet. Why wouldn't they be happy with it on Swiss?


Obviously spoken by someone who doesn’t live in Switzerland, or remotely understand the Swiss mentality. There’s a reason people in Switzerland pay over the odds fares on LX, and it thus happens to be the jewel in the LH group crown.

Westerwaelder wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

That is well put. The art of marketing is figuring out what people will pay for, and how much. (Think of the instant success of early iPhone.)

No, LH, BA, AF, etc., have cost bases much too high to compete straight-up on price. That forces an uncomfortable question for short-haul: Why pay more for an essentially identical product?


It's ignoring the reality in Europe. I agree, BA, LH, AF have not got the cost basis to compete with FR or U2. But going for higher service levels is throwing money out of the window. Customers time again say they are not prepared to pay for anything they don't use. That is the new norm. To cater to the few who sit in economy and don't care about cost is cutting it too fine. It's time to accept that the world has moved on and airlines are moving with it. Why offer anything for free (and make no mistake, even a small cost adds up to millions quickly) if the majority of your customers don't value it? Is it not better to offer a product that suits 80% of your customers than one that suits 20%?


Then what does a FSC provide in order to compete against LCCs while having higher cost bases and thus needing higher fares? I pay more to fly on FSC because of the service and yes that entails the offering of free food and drink amongst others. Sure some people would prefer LCC service and fares, and that is their prerogative, but since when have LX/LH been targeting people who are chasing the last dollar? I am the target audience of who FSC should chase. JJR could not put it better. At the end of the day the cost of food and drink on the plane with the buying power LH/LX have is probably less than €5 per passenger. No one who appreciates the extra service blinks an eye at the more than €5 extra fare, but they do appreciate the touch it adds to the brand, and pay accordingly.


If LH and LX coukd make enough money from people who are prepared to pay higher fares, if they attracted enough high paying customers onto their planes, they would not need to change.

Just because you would pay more for it doesn't show there is a significant enough market for it.

I don't disagree, differentiation is eroding fast. The likes of BA, AF and LH still have their FFP which makes a lot of longhaul flyers chose them on short haul routes. As a premium member you have lounge access. Terminal facilities in London at least are a lot nicer in LHR than STN and LTN. People trust that if things go wrong, LH/BA/AF will look after them. And they often have more frequency offering more flexibility. And if you want to pay more for a snack and a dring, there is always business class.

I am fully aware that any of the above points are debatable (FFP devaluation, shared terminal space in some airports, gettungv reated badly during disruption etc.). Bit if I take myself as an example. I know the seat pitch is the same, I know I don't get free food or drink but I still rather fly BA than U2 or FR. It's just an ingrained preference and I even pay a few quid more for it...

LH and LX know full well, they are not going to be deserted in droves because of this...
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:05 pm

In Europe, can you generally get lounge access if you fly short haul in premium class? I know it's usually not allowed here in the US.
 
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817Dreamliiner
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:52 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
In Europe, can you generally get lounge access if you fly short haul in premium class? I know it's usually not allowed here in the US.

Yes
Life is encrypted, you are modified, Like a virus in a lullaby, Artificial till the day you die, silly programme, You're corrupted
 
miegapele
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:34 pm

Great news! Lets hope they also stock up on lottery tickets and crew calendar /s
 
VSMUT
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:54 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
In Europe, can you generally get lounge access if you fly short haul in premium class? I know it's usually not allowed here in the US.


Generally speaking, anyone on any business class fare and all status card holders above the basic membership tier regardless of booking class. Although that having been said, Lufthansa halted all 3rd party contract lounges this summer, so the number of airports with lounges have been slashed to pretty much nothing.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:19 pm

I hope US carriers do not come up with this in the future. Flying on LH is going to be like flying F9 or NK.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:57 am

Could the following be to force their FFPs to fly Business more then Economy on LX/LH? Maybe cheaper business fares?

At the same time this could also break the legacy carriers causing Ryanair to introduce onboard snacks to "wooh" over even more business travellers (such as what Gol does in Brazil with its hybrid offering, low fares and cost but good service). In addition Ryanair could increase the training of their crews and not the pay of them meaning a higher quality of service due to their cheaper costs over legacy carriers (which is the big difference between Ryanair and legacies over Easyjet to the legacies which pays its crews and staff on legacy like terms). Ryanair could very much use this to their advantage to get the whole market as now they have only been able to attract higher end leisure passengers and business customers to a certain extent. This could be the next part of Ryanair's plan to dominate the EU market after it rebranded causing the value of the brand to become what it is today (with an increased amount of passengers).
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:16 am

lesfalls wrote:
Could the following be to force their FFPs to fly Business more then Economy on LX/LH? Maybe cheaper business fares?

At the same time this could also break the legacy carriers causing Ryanair to introduce onboard snacks to "wooh" over even more business travellers (such as what Gol does in Brazil with its hybrid offering, low fares and cost but good service). In addition Ryanair could increase the training of their crews and not the pay of them meaning a higher quality of service due to their cheaper costs over legacy carriers (which is the big difference between Ryanair and legacies over Easyjet to the legacies which pays its crews and staff on legacy like terms). Ryanair could very much use this to their advantage to get the whole market as now they have only been able to attract higher end leisure passengers and business customers to a certain extent. This could be the next part of Ryanair's plan to dominate the EU market after it rebranded causing the value of the brand to become what it is today (with an increased amount of passengers).


Are you kidding us ? I fly J and sometimes F ! Ryanair has absolutely nothing on offer for me and my friends to say at least ! If I ( or we ) fly inside of Europe we want or better say need ( time is cash ) to go for a meeting, nobody wants to be stranded on an old military airport in nowhere land , because the money and time you spend on the top is far out of range. My kids have flown Ryanair and whenever they flew with me ........ I guess you know the answer
 
VSMUT
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:07 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Could the following be to force their FFPs to fly Business more then Economy on LX/LH? Maybe cheaper business fares?


They would be a grotesque misunderstanding of how most employers work. Paying out of the nose for an economy ticket is typical, but even a slight premium for business will be against policy. I've seen employers who'd rather pay more for economy in the rare case when business class is cheaper, on the principle alone.


lesfalls wrote:
At the same time this could also break the legacy carriers causing Ryanair to introduce onboard snacks to "wooh" over even more business travellers (such as what Gol does in Brazil with its hybrid offering, low fares and cost but good service). In addition Ryanair could increase the training of their crews and not the pay of them meaning a higher quality of service due to their cheaper costs over legacy carriers (which is the big difference between Ryanair and legacies over Easyjet to the legacies which pays its crews and staff on legacy like terms). Ryanair could very much use this to their advantage to get the whole market as now they have only been able to attract higher end leisure passengers and business customers to a certain extent. This could be the next part of Ryanair's plan to dominate the EU market after it rebranded causing the value of the brand to become what it is today (with an increased amount of passengers).


I've also been wondering when Ryan, Easy or Wizz are going to replicate the models used by JetBlue or Lion Air. JetBlue has the Mint product for some of its routes, while Lion Group has its full service Malindo subsidiary. SpiceJet in India has begun dabbling in a business class offering on select routes. I obviously don't foresee lie-flat seats or even 2+2 recliners, but more a middle-seat blocked premium fare in the front row on select routes. Ryanair already offers lounge access as an optional extra. Naysayers like Westerwalder might insist that nobody will pay, but reality says otherwise. Except for a frequent flyer scheme, they already have the entire infrastructure set up to offer a "light" business class that will completely outmatch the likes of Lufthansa.
 
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dangerhere
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:35 pm

Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:31 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
We still have KL and AF to serve meals on Europe flights. Who else does?


Aegean for sure
 
debonair
Posts: 4208
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:05 pm

dangerhere wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
We still have KL and AF to serve meals on Europe flights. Who else does?


Aegean for sure

And don't forget SunAir and Luxair! LOT offers a snack and water/coffee for free and AFAIK TAROM free snack/meal.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 1111
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:25 pm

Does Lufthansa sell basic economy tickets?
 
debonair
Posts: 4208
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:30 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Does Lufthansa sell basic economy tickets?


What do you mean? Lufthansa, as well LX, are offering a "light" fare, without baggage and strictly restricted.

BTW, sorry I forgot, new German domestic airline Lübeck Air is also offering a free premium menu on its flights to MUC and STR.
 
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AirAfreak
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Re: Lufthansa Group introducing buy on board in Y

Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:01 pm

It’s a foolish and disappointing concept for the desperate and short-sighted “pencil-pushers” at Lufthansa.

Lufthansa have basically delivered the “baby Jesus” to the front door of every competing airline across Europe by making this service announcement.

It will (now) take a very long time for Lufthansa to garner any form of meaningful business relationships due to lack of product differentiation; concerning the short and medium-haul network, at best.

The promise of reliability, consistency, and hospitality; all associated with the purchase of a Lufthansa ticket, have been forever compromised.

Lufthansa should follow the lead of Singapore Airlines. Singapore Airlines avoided financial devastation during the Asian Financial Crisis because they continued to invest millions of dollars in their new inflight cabin products and more. They were the only airline in Southeast Asia (and most of Asia) to post an annual profit at the time. Further, an effective marketing campaign coincided with an unparalleled service strategy. The broadcast garnered a sense of familiarity and loyalty among the majority of their “upper-middle class demographic” in Singapore.
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