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x1234
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NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:02 pm

I remember distrinctly in the early 2000's Northwest launched serveral TATL 757 routes. I think it was DTW-FRA and DTW-DUS for the auto industry. Which routes were they on and why did they discontinue it? DL now uses bigger aircraft in its massive TATL hub of JFK.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:07 pm

BDL-AMS was one of them. And DL had a pretty significant TATL operation from JFK even before the 2008 merger with, stemming from the 1991 acquisition of Pan Am's Europe network (which did not include LHR). NW did not use a lot of 757s across the Atlantic. DTW-DUS was a 757 route, as was a short-lived DTW-BRU route. DTW to FRA never operated with a narrow body on NW and was usually a DC10. The NW 757 routes to Europe all operated starting in 2007 and were quickly axed.
 
airbuster
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:52 pm

And to think I had the choice between taking a NW 757 or a KL 777 on DTW-AMS in 2008 and I chose the latter. I didn’t see how special the 757 trip was at the time.
 
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American 767
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:53 pm

Didn't NW also have a crew base in BOS? I could be wrong. I know BOS wasn't a major hub for NW but I remember they had quite a few flights to Europe in addition to those to their major hubs DTW and MSP. I'm pretty sure they used to have a BOS-AMS flight.
 
cdgdtw
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:19 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
BDL-AMS was one of them. And DL had a pretty significant TATL operation from JFK even before the 2008 merger with, stemming from the 1991 acquisition of Pan Am's Europe network (which did not include LHR). NW did not use a lot of 757s across the Atlantic. DTW-DUS was a 757 route, as was a short-lived DTW-BRU route. DTW to FRA never operated with a narrow body on NW and was usually a DC10. The NW 757 routes to Europe all operated starting in 2007 and were quickly axed.



DTW-FRA did operate as a 757, as a supplemental operation to FRA. It lasted one summer and was a stretch on the westbound leg, as I remember.
 
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klm617
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:21 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
BDL-AMS was one of them. And DL had a pretty significant TATL operation from JFK even before the 2008 merger with, stemming from the 1991 acquisition of Pan Am's Europe network (which did not include LHR). NW did not use a lot of 757s across the Atlantic. DTW-DUS was a 757 route, as was a short-lived DTW-BRU route. DTW to FRA never operated with a narrow body on NW and was usually a DC10. The NW 757 routes to Europe all operated starting in 2007 and were quickly axed.


DTW-FRA operated with a 757 one summer. Other 757 routes were DTW-LGW and DTW-AMS
 
MIflyer12
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:28 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
DTW to FRA never operated with a narrow body on NW and was usually a DC10.


They announced DTW-FRA as added capacity.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... op-Service

A 757 DTW-AMS as added capacity.
A 757 BOS-AMS as incremental capacity.

DTW-BRU didn't last four months, running 5/2007 and ending 8/15/2007. DTW-DUS ran 6/5/2007 - 10/1/2008. https://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/2 ... orf-flight

BDL-AMS was announced.

These TATL 757 routes were substantially unwound even before the merger. They died by low PRASM relative to high CASM, not lack of DL love. Low density 757 CASM was not a winner against 767s and A330s. DUS lasted longer than BRU - it at least had some auto supplier traffic. I'm guessing there wasn't a lot of O&D to pay a non-stop premium on DTW-BRU.

The coach seat pitch of the NW TATL 757s was pretty good because they were trying to keep weight down to increase range.
 
Italianflyer
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:34 pm

American 767 wrote:
Didn't NW also have a crew base in BOS? I could be wrong. I know BOS wasn't a major hub for NW but I remember they had quite a few flights to Europe in addition to those to their major hubs DTW and MSP. I'm pretty sure they used to have a BOS-AMS flight.


Yes it was a F/A base from the early 90s onward. I was based there for a year and had great people (including management). BOS & NW have a complicated relationship, like DL & BOS. It's a hub, then not a hub, then gateway, then big spoke, then focus city then hub again. I had high school relationships that were less complicated.

BDL-AMS was also a 757 experiment. When I worked flt 60 (the BOS-AMS) 757 it was pretty full year round.
 
PBADC3
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:43 pm

The total NW 757 transatlantic package was planned to be 10 shells (75A's), with 9+ scheduled. The original intent was additional time channel coverage in existing markets along with some prospecting to secondary markets. For very conservative Northwest, this was pretty out-of-the-box thinking. This was about adding flow to the network, not as much hub O/D.

S07 had BOS/BDL/DTW-AMS DTW-BRU and DTW-DUS. A WorldClub was outfitted in BDL to support the transatlantic mission as this converted BDL from a spoke to a gateway.

S08 75A flying was BOS/BDL/DTW-AMS, DTW-DUS, DTW-LGW, EWR-AMS, supported by 7 shells IIRC.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:55 pm

No NW 757s had winglets, right?
 
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klm617
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:23 am

PBADC3 wrote:
The total NW 757 transatlantic package was planned to be 10 shells (75A's), with 9+ scheduled. The original intent was additional time channel coverage in existing markets along with some prospecting to secondary markets. For very conservative Northwest, this was pretty out-of-the-box thinking. This was about adding flow to the network, not as much hub O/D.

S07 had BOS/BDL/DTW-AMS DTW-BRU and DTW-DUS. A WorldClub was outfitted in BDL to support the transatlantic mission as this converted BDL from a spoke to a gateway.

S08 75A flying was BOS/BDL/DTW-AMS, DTW-DUS, DTW-LGW, EWR-AMS, supported by 7 shells IIRC.


You missed DTW-FRA I believe it was summer of S07
 
drdisque
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:41 pm

Yes, due to DTW's location and the fact that NW had P&W 757's with slightly less range, meant they had to go with a seating arrangement with around 150 seats on a 757 as opposed to DL, AA, and CO that had many more seats on their TATL 757's due to the combination of Northeastern hubs and RR engines.

So NW had to chase markets that were high yielding and thus couldn't try routes like DTW-DUB that probably would have filled the plane but not at fares high enough to overcome the configuration's high CASM. Thus why it was primarily used on routes to European business centers, taking over weak but high yielding routes from KLM to AMS or adding a second flight to AMS from various hubs/gateways when there wasn't spare A330 capacity.
 
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klm617
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:29 pm

drdisque wrote:
Yes, due to DTW's location and the fact that NW had P&W 757's with slightly less range, meant they had to go with a seating arrangement with around 150 seats on a 757 as opposed to DL, AA, and CO that had many more seats on their TATL 757's due to the combination of Northeastern hubs and RR engines.

So NW had to chase markets that were high yielding and thus couldn't try routes like DTW-DUB that probably would have filled the plane but not at fares high enough to overcome the configuration's high CASM. Thus why it was primarily used on routes to European business centers, taking over weak but high yielding routes from KLM to AMS or adding a second flight to AMS from various hubs/gateways when there wasn't spare A330 capacity.


Would be nice to see Delta start DTW-MAN and DTW-DUB with the 757 those would be perfect adds
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:18 am

Prior to merger did DL do any 757 Transatlantic?
 
drdisque
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:07 pm

bfitzflyer wrote:
Prior to merger did DL do any 757 Transatlantic?


Barely

So according to this thread: viewtopic.php?t=457219

JFK-SNN began September 2007 and JFK-EDI began in May 2008.

The merger was announced in April 2008 and approved in October 2008.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: NW 757 TATL routes

Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:21 am

PBADC3 wrote:
The total NW 757 transatlantic package was planned to be 10 shells (75A's), with 9+ scheduled. The original intent was additional time channel coverage in existing markets along with some prospecting to secondary markets. For very conservative Northwest, this was pretty out-of-the-box thinking. This was about adding flow to the network, not as much hub O/D.

S07 had BOS/BDL/DTW-AMS DTW-BRU and DTW-DUS. A WorldClub was outfitted in BDL to support the transatlantic mission as this converted BDL from a spoke to a gateway.

S08 75A flying was BOS/BDL/DTW-AMS, DTW-DUS, DTW-LGW, EWR-AMS, supported by 7 shells IIRC.

Yep, this is a pretty accurate summary.
The 75A project as you say was pretty bold for conservative NW but was one of the broader initiatives going forward coming out of bankruptcy. The other being the big CR9 and E75 orders for 72 - 76 seaters, replacing the ARJ capacity and some of D9S capacity.

BOS-AMS was the 2nd daily in addition to an A333
DTW-AMS was the 5th daily in addition to A333 & a B744. It was primarily to bridge/route the 75A to cover the flying to BDL, BOS, EWR.

In Summer 2008, NW was running split ops in London, and has recently gotten access to LHR which was served with an A333 and then used the 75A to LGW.

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