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Aseem747
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Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:04 am

What aircraft might replace the CPA A330-300 in future? They have almost 45 of them currently. Or could they just use A350-900 in the current A330-300 routes as the difference between the number of seats between them isn't too much?
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:31 am

I see a lot of them being retired without replacement to be honest
 
AB330
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:32 am

For routes to Australia and New Zealand the A350-900 has been slowly taking over from the A330-300 (33K) with Ackland, Melbourne and Sydney seeing a total replacement which featured a mix of A350/B773 depending on the frequency. Adelaide still sees the A330-300 and other routes like Brisbane and Perth still used the A330-300 on select frequency. For regional routes in Asia, India and possibly the middle east I expect the A330-300 will like stick around a bit longer then anticipated due to the effects of the Pandemic. The most likely candidite is the B787-10 which will not only replaced the A333. But also the non-ER B773.
 
raylee67
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 9:53 am

The old ones will just get dumped. The newer ones are still too young to be replaced. They can soldier on for 5-10 years. This is not going to be high in the list of priority for the airline now.

Eventually, the only viable replacement would be A339 or 787-10.
 
Opus99
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:11 am

MileHFL400 wrote:
I see a lot of them being retired without replacement to be honest

Exactly what I thought as well
 
VSMUT
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:17 am

raylee67 wrote:
Eventually, the only viable replacement would be A339 or 787-10.


The A350 comes in downgraded regional variants too. See the Singapore Airlines regional subfleet.
 
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ArcticSEA
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:19 am

More A330s.
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:22 am

I don't think the A359 will take over a lot of A333 routes, though they are used on short hops it's not ideal (they're spec'd for long haul). I expect they'll go for the 78X eventually, but that may be a while in the future. The A339 has a solid chance here even if I don't think it will be chosen.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:56 am

I don't understand people who say that they will go from an A330 to a 787-10. The A350 would be much better suited capacity wise, they wouldn't be flying an A330 if the routes could support that much more capacity. If anything current A350 routes might shift to 787-10 to free up frames for A330 routes.

That being said I don't think Cathay will be in growth mode for a while now. There's going to be overcapacity in the network for years to come.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:11 am

A359 replace some middle-range route such as Australia and India
The older A330 will be replaced by younger A330 with regional configuration
And for regional route CX often operate a mix of widebodies for aircraft rotation

To be honest CX don't ready need A330 as they can replace by A359/35K
 
chonetsao
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:19 am

CX management is very particular about aircraft choice. They did not choose B787 series at the beginning, and they won't choose it afterwards. B787 has no place in CX. So forget about B787.

CX liked the B777-300 for regional. So the likely scenario is ex-KA regional A330 will be retired with B777-300 as a temporary replacement. The CX long haul A330 will be retired with A359 taking over.

As things standing, the coming 5 years won't see any fleet expansion at all as new A359 and A35K is coming online. These orders will replace A330. There were 8 A350s to be delivered over the future. I think A330 from ex-KA fleet including HLM, HLN, HLO, HLT, HYG, HYI, HYJ and HYQ will not return to service due it their close to 20 years in service. LAA and LAB may be accelerated for retirement.

Among CX fleet, it is obvious HLQ, HLR, HLS, HLU, HLV and HLW may never return to service post Covid. LAD, LAE and LAF may join the accelerated retirement list.

That means CX currently has 43 A330, and 13-14 aircrafts may never return with another 5-6 may retire very soon (19 in total). That will leave 24 A330 in future to be replaced.

I think CX can absorb the 19 A330 leaving the fleet without adding any aircrafts through frequency cuts and destination cuts. The remaining 24 A330 do not need urgent replacement.

So the conclusion is CX does not need any other aircrafts to replace the A330.

If CX needs aircrafts for expansion, it would be the super cheap second hand B777-300ER dumped by airlines and leasing companies on the market rather than newer aircrafts (that is a big NO to B787 and A330NEO).
 
VSMUT
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:20 pm

chonetsao wrote:
CX liked the B777-300 for regional. So the likely scenario is ex-KA regional A330 will be retired with B777-300 as a temporary replacement. The CX long haul A330 will be retired with A359 taking over.

If CX needs aircrafts for expansion, it would be the super cheap second hand B777-300ER dumped by airlines and leasing companies on the market rather than newer aircrafts (that is a big NO to B787 and A330NEO).


Replacing an A330-300 with a 777-300ER is a bit overkill. If you are already searching for cheap secondhand frames, then the A330 used market would be a far more logical place to begin. Loads of good A330-300s sitting around unemployed.


FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
I don't understand people who say that they will go from an A330 to a 787-10.


They are pretty close in capacity. Both are designed for similar roles as regional widebodies with limited range at max payload. Singapore Airlines, EVA Air, Vietnam Airlines and All Nippon all use their 787-10 fleets as regional workhorses - Singapore, EVA and Vietnam all used it to replace the A330-300 (Singapore also got regional A350s as well). It is pretty logical to assume that Cathay would consider it as an A330-300 replacement.

Replacing the A350 with the 787-10 on the other hand, they would not make sense at all. The A350 is definitely the better plane for longer routes.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:33 pm

Longer term you will see A321neos replacing more regional A333s than anything. But agree with others a big chunk of their A333 fleet does not need replacement anytie soon.

Michael
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:35 pm

VSMUT wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
I don't understand people who say that they will go from an A330 to a 787-10.


They are pretty close in capacity. Both are designed for similar roles as regional widebodies with limited range at max payload. Singapore Airlines, EVA Air, Vietnam Airlines and All Nippon all use their 787-10 fleets as regional workhorses - Singapore, EVA and Vietnam all used it to replace the A330-300 (Singapore also got regional A350s as well). It is pretty logical to assume that Cathay would consider it as an A330-300 replacement.

Replacing the A350 with the 787-10 on the other hand, they would not make sense at all. The A350 is definitely the better plane for longer routes.


What I meant was in markets such as India or Australia that are in range of the 787 and currently being served by the A350-900, the 787-10 could be placed and those freed up A350 can be used to smaller A330 markets like ADL.

SQ has a 50 seat difference between the two planes. VN has between 100 and 80 seats difference. The 787-10 wasn't designed to be a 2h flight workhorse, it was designed as a transatlantic beast (and I'm willing to bet its CASM is unmatched in that regard). But the thing is all these orders were made in a growth market. I doubt SQ would have ordered 49 of them during a pandemic for example.

Furthermore, for flights to China for example, I don't see CX wanting to upgauge too much and dump capacity as they were going for frequency (Shanghai had over 10 flights a day).

As other have pointed out, I don't think they will suddenly order the 787 though. If anything, they will upgauge to A350 when needed and downgauge to the A321neo to most places (with the new seats that were presented not too long ago).
 
chonetsao
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:48 pm

VSMUT wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
CX liked the B777-300 for regional. So the likely scenario is ex-KA regional A330 will be retired with B777-300 as a temporary replacement. The CX long haul A330 will be retired with A359 taking over.

If CX needs aircrafts for expansion, it would be the super cheap second hand B777-300ER dumped by airlines and leasing companies on the market rather than newer aircrafts (that is a big NO to B787 and A330NEO).


Replacing an A330-300 with a 777-300ER is a bit overkill. If you are already searching for cheap secondhand frames, then the A330 used market would be a far more logical place to begin. Loads of good A330-300s sitting around unemployed.


Not necessarily.

Regional A330s need a regional approach. B773 is no longer in the market, a perfect regional aircraft would be B777-300ER size for CX's network philosophy. Capacity wise, the Current A330 regional config is 307/317 on CX/KA. And the regional B773 (non-ER) is 438 pax. Admittedly the difference is 120 pax, a 38% rise in capacity. However, CX/KA's regional routes that utilise A330 are heavy on schedule with multiple daily, think of TPE, BKK, PEK, PVG, SIN ...etc. There is no guarantee the pre-Covid-19 schedule would be kept with CX actively seeking to reduce pilots' compensation and numbers to save costs. In fact it is to CX's benefits to reduce the flights from 12 daily to 9-10 daily in some destinations (figuratively speaking). Using B773 instead of A333 can keep the capacity inline yet to reduce the frequency that no longer needed. Plus, if CX keep the second hand B77W in the long haul premium light config of 40J32W296Y (total 368 seats, by comparison the premium heavy version is 294 seats in total), it is not that much a capacity rise compared to 317 seats. As the second hand B777-300ER price is going through the floor, it also means unbelievably low CASM and maintenance cost for CX. Plus, CX needs to think about the 17 strong B773 (non-ER) regional aircraft replacement as well.

Second hand A330 might be attractive, but that is a fleet type with less future compare to B77W. Here I am thinking about possible P2F conversion and cargo capabilities, as well spare parts when A330NEO is the future etc. CX is transitioning itself to an airline with NB and WB combined airline with A321 coming. Thus a less fleet type is more beneficial. A fleet type that including A350s, B777s and A321 seems to be more ideal than a combined A330, A321, A350 and B777s.

For long haul A330, it is being replaced by A359 so there is no real issue there.

Another consideration is, CX may not need to add any ac to its fleet or replace the A330 until 4-5 years later, considering the assessment in my original post. By that time there would be more B77W available through airlines and leasing companies. Thinking about Emirates' large B77W fleet, thinking about B77W currently on the lease books among airlines from Asia (CA, MU, CZ, NH and SQ to think few).
 
boston5555
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:49 pm

They used an A350K on HKG-MNL when I flew last year. Our aircraft to MNL had just arrived from MAN. Seems like the combination of longer haul route then tagged on to a shorter route is a routine practice for CX (our BOS-HKG 773 aircraft then connected to SGN). That, combined with route reductions due to COVID for the near term, it would seem like they can make do for the near term. (Of course, that’s assuming that international routes open back up fairly soon; if not, the point is moot anyways).
 
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zeke
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:08 pm

AB330 wrote:
For routes to Australia and New Zealand the A350-900 has been slowly taking over from the A330-300 (33K) with Ackland, Melbourne and Sydney seeing a total replacement which featured a mix of A350/B773 depending on the frequency.


AKL only saw the A330 once, it mainly had the A343, sometimes the 747, 346, 777.

raylee67 wrote:
The newer ones are still too young to be replaced. They can soldier on for 5-10 years. This is not going to be high in the list of priority for the airline now.


I think that is reasonable, same with the 777 fleet, the priority at this stage is to save cash and to still be around in 12 months.

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
I don't understand people who say that they will go from an A330 to a 787-10.


Do a EK and replace the 77Xs on order with 787s ? This is so far out in the future who know what will happen.

eamondzhang wrote:
Longer term you will see A321neos replacing more regional A333s than anything.


Just doesn’t have the cargo capability of the A330, it isn’t unusual to have 15-20 tonnes of cargo on a regional flight on top of the passenger load.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:14 pm

Cargo demand, as much as passenger demand, will be a key factor in determining what CX will select as an A330 replacement, and whether that plane already exists in the fleet or is purchased new. I think the A359 (-900 and -1000) will likely assume more of the 77W routes and the 77Ws allowing for a rebalance of the fleet (CX is cutting a lot of intercontinental flying as it is) and future business demand to HKG remains to be seen as to whether it will revert to pre-pandemic levels. It was declining well before COVID due to social unrest. It is likely going to recover but unlikely to the levels it once was.
 
raylee67
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:21 pm

zeke wrote:
AB330 wrote:
For routes to Australia and New Zealand the A350-900 has been slowly taking over from the A330-300 (33K) with Ackland, Melbourne and Sydney seeing a total replacement which featured a mix of A350/B773 depending on the frequency.


AKL only saw the A330 once, it mainly had the A343, sometimes the 747, 346, 777.


Didn't know A333 has even been used on AKL. It's a 10+ hr flight, no? Can A333 even fly this non-stop both directions with full load?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:23 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Regional A330s need a regional approach.


The A330-300 is a regional aircraft by default.


chonetsao wrote:
However, CX/KA's regional routes that utilise A330 are heavy on schedule with multiple daily, think of TPE, BKK, PEK, PVG, SIN ...etc. There is no guarantee the pre-Covid-19 schedule would be kept with CX actively seeking to reduce pilots' compensation and numbers to save costs. In fact it is to CX's benefits to reduce the flights from 12 daily to 9-10 daily in some destinations (figuratively speaking). Using B773 instead of A333 can keep the capacity inline yet to reduce the frequency that no longer needed.


I see no indication at all that airlines are trying to reduce frequencies. If anything, Cathay's A321neo acquisition is evidence of the opposite. Customers want the flexibility.


chonetsao wrote:
Second hand A330 might be attractive, but that is a fleet type with less future compare to B77W. Here I am thinking about possible P2F conversion and cargo capabilities, as well spare parts when A330NEO is the future etc.


Now you're just talking nonsense. The A330 has less future than the 777-300ER? No offense, but IAI expects to turn out around 150 converted 777-300ER freighters over 20 years. EFW expects to turn out over twice as many A330P2Fs annually! And we haven't even touched on the recently announced IAI A330P2F program.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:30 pm

Let the fleet shrink by natural attrition, and the young uns soldier on. True for a lot of airlines. Wouldn’t want to be in the business of selling new aeroplanes for the foreseeable future.

chunhimlai wrote:
A359 replace some middle-range route such as Australia and India

HK to Sydney is at least nine hours, it’s really far. You’re talking about San Fran to London. It just looks mid haul because there’s nothing in between, and we think of the A330 as a mid hauler because it started out as one.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 1:55 pm

VSMUT wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Regional A330s need a regional approach.


The A330-300 is a regional aircraft by default.


Are you serious? CX/KA's A330 birds have two versions, one for regional and one for long haul. The difference is the business class seats product. Thus the reference of regional A330 and long haul A330.

VSMUT wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
However, CX/KA's regional routes that utilise A330 are heavy on schedule with multiple daily, think of TPE, BKK, PEK, PVG, SIN ...etc. There is no guarantee the pre-Covid-19 schedule would be kept with CX actively seeking to reduce pilots' compensation and numbers to save costs. In fact it is to CX's benefits to reduce the flights from 12 daily to 9-10 daily in some destinations (figuratively speaking). Using B773 instead of A333 can keep the capacity inline yet to reduce the frequency that no longer needed.


I see no indication at all that airlines are trying to reduce frequencies. If anything, Cathay's A321neo acquisition is evidence of the opposite. Customers want the flexibility.


Again, you did not understand the CX's management philosophy. CX's A321 is to be used on routes like CKG/WUH/NGB etc. where a WB is not required. Occasionally A321 will be used on PVG/PEK when there are WB service within 1-2 hours departure to even out capacity. It is not used on TRUNK HIGH FREQUENCY route by design. Do you even understand how CX route network planner works?

VSMUT wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Second hand A330 might be attractive, but that is a fleet type with less future compare to B77W. Here I am thinking about possible P2F conversion and cargo capabilities, as well spare parts when A330NEO is the future etc.


Now you're just talking nonsense. The A330 has less future than the 777-300ER? No offense, but IAI expects to turn out around 150 converted 777-300ER freighters over 20 years. EFW expects to turn out over twice as many A330P2Fs annually! And we haven't even touched on the recently announced IAI A330P2F program.


No comment on this issue. As we obviously have different opinions and I do not want get into the airbus VS boeing argument. As my original assessment is meant for CX only, I may not have made that clear. Now I am reiterate that A330 as a fleet type has less future compare to B77W for CX. I hope that is end of your attacking. My only request is for you to have a look at the CX Cargo fleet and tell me if there is any A330 cargo plane in the group. Thanks.
 
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zeke
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:05 pm

raylee67 wrote:
Didn't know A333 has even been used on AKL. It's a 10+ hr flight, no? Can A333 even fly this non-stop both directions with full load?


Did it once for a sub for the A343, main issue is the way we had them configured with no crew rest which is needed on that flight.

chonetsao wrote:
My only request is for you to have a look at the CX Cargo fleet and tell me if there is any A330 cargo plane in the group. Thanks.


We have A300F and A330F within the group with Air Hong Kong, some CX pilots will be going on secondment there to fly the A330F.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:03 pm

raylee67 wrote:
zeke wrote:
AB330 wrote:
For routes to Australia and New Zealand the A350-900 has been slowly taking over from the A330-300 (33K) with Ackland, Melbourne and Sydney seeing a total replacement which featured a mix of A350/B773 depending on the frequency.


AKL only saw the A330 once, it mainly had the A343, sometimes the 747, 346, 777.


Didn't know A333 has even been used on AKL. It's a 10+ hr flight, no? Can A333 even fly this non-stop both directions with full load?


China Southern has been flying them to AKL from just up the road in CAN for much of the last ten years. No idea what payload restrictions they face (if any).
 
chonetsao
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:25 pm

zeke wrote:
We have A300F and A330F within the group with Air Hong Kong, some CX pilots will be going on secondment there to fly the A330F.


Of course I know that, but I specifically ask about CX cargo fleet. Air Hong Kong is separate from CX in operation and does not carry CX code. Although CX bought the remaining stakes of DHL in Air Hong Kong, the aircrafts were still operated for DHL. On CX side, its cargo division does not have A330F and I doubt it would ever have A330F in near future.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:37 pm

chonetsao wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Regional A330s need a regional approach.


The A330-300 is a regional aircraft by default.


Are you serious? CX/KA's A330 birds have two versions, one for regional and one for long haul. The difference is the business class seats product. Thus the reference of regional A330 and long haul A330.

VSMUT wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
However, CX/KA's regional routes that utilise A330 are heavy on schedule with multiple daily, think of TPE, BKK, PEK, PVG, SIN ...etc. There is no guarantee the pre-Covid-19 schedule would be kept with CX actively seeking to reduce pilots' compensation and numbers to save costs. In fact it is to CX's benefits to reduce the flights from 12 daily to 9-10 daily in some destinations (figuratively speaking). Using B773 instead of A333 can keep the capacity inline yet to reduce the frequency that no longer needed.


I see no indication at all that airlines are trying to reduce frequencies. If anything, Cathay's A321neo acquisition is evidence of the opposite. Customers want the flexibility.


Again, you did not understand the CX's management philosophy. CX's A321 is to be used on routes like CKG/WUH/NGB etc. where a WB is not required. Occasionally A321 will be used on PVG/PEK when there are WB service within 1-2 hours departure to even out capacity. It is not used on TRUNK HIGH FREQUENCY route by design. Do you even understand how CX route network planner works?

VSMUT wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Second hand A330 might be attractive, but that is a fleet type with less future compare to B77W. Here I am thinking about possible P2F conversion and cargo capabilities, as well spare parts when A330NEO is the future etc.


Now you're just talking nonsense. The A330 has less future than the 777-300ER? No offense, but IAI expects to turn out around 150 converted 777-300ER freighters over 20 years. EFW expects to turn out over twice as many A330P2Fs annually! And we haven't even touched on the recently announced IAI A330P2F program.


No comment on this issue. As we obviously have different opinions and I do not want get into the airbus VS boeing argument. As my original assessment is meant for CX only, I may not have made that clear. Now I am reiterate that A330 as a fleet type has less future compare to B77W for CX. I hope that is end of your attacking. My only request is for you to have a look at the CX Cargo fleet and tell me if there is any A330 cargo plane in the group. Thanks.


OT but just curious - do you see all USA 77W destinations being replaced by A359/K at some point? Was just looking at some speculative bookings for next year assuming the world opens up again at some point. Seems LAX-HKG stays 77W while others such as ORD-HKG move to the A350. The refreshed J class on the A350 looks really nice! Would love to try it out.
 
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zeke
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:37 pm

zkojq wrote:
China Southern has been flying them to AKL from just up the road in CAN for much of the last ten years. No idea what payload restrictions they face (if any).


That’s an A332, CX operate an A333.

chonetsao wrote:
Of course I know that, but I specifically ask about CX cargo fleet. Air Hong Kong is separate from CX in operation and does not carry CX code. Although CX bought the remaining stakes of DHL in Air Hong Kong, the aircrafts were still operated for DHL. On CX side, its cargo division does not have A330F and I doubt it would ever have A330F in near future.


CX cargo does not have any aircraft.

LD is a 100% subsidiary like UO, and KA was.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Fri Dec 18, 2020 6:34 pm

zeke wrote:
CX cargo does not have any aircraft.

LD is a 100% subsidiary like UO, and KA was.


I said [CX cargo fleet]. It means cargo aircraft that is operated by CX, not KA, not LD. CX is code for Cathay Pacific Airways, it means the fleet operated by CX for CX under CX code, not LD, not KA, not Cathay Pacific group. I apologise for not have made it more clearer. But how would one think CX cargo fleet means fleet by CX Cargo?

For everyone's benefit, I am attaching a historical document about Cathay Pacific Cargo division (please note not CX cargo fleet), although it did touch an outdated term for CX Cargo fleet.

In this historical document, it stated:

Cathay Pacific’s Cargo Fleet
Cathay Pacific Cargo currently has a fleet of 25 Boeing 747 freighters, namely six 747-
400Fs, one 747-400BCF (Boeing Converted Freighter), six 747-400ERFs (Extended
Range Freighter) and 13 747-8 freighters. One more Boeing 747-8F will be delivered
in 2016.
Cathay Pacific Cargo also utilises cargo space on Cathay Pacific’s 118 passenger
aircraft. The cargo unit carries more than 120,000 tonnes of cargo per month, more
than half of which is uplifted on passenger flights.


Again it is a historical document written by CX Cargo. But it does provide some insight for people who was not familiar with CX cargo operation. The current CX cargo fleet is 6 B747-400ERF and 14 B747-8F.

And also for anyone who is not familiar with the fact, in case you think zeke's was right that CX Cargo has no aircrafts, all Cathay Pacific's cargo aircrafts are painted CATHAY PACIFIC CARGO on its body as showing on airliners.net's photo archives:

Image
The photo copyright belongs to Robert Maverick Rivera
 
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zeke
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:13 am

chonetsao wrote:
I said [CX cargo fleet]. It means cargo aircraft that is operated by CX, not KA, not LD. CX is code for Cathay Pacific Airways, it means the fleet operated by CX for CX under CX code, not LD, not KA, not Cathay Pacific group. I apologise for not have made it more clearer. But how would one think CX cargo fleet means fleet by CX Cargo?


Unfortunately that is your definition and not the reality, CX own LD, and LD carries cargo for, as well as operates dedicated flights for CX.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:46 am

cedarjet wrote:
HK to Sydney is at least nine hours, it’s really far. You’re talking about San Fran to London. It just looks mid haul because there’s nothing in between, and we think of the A330 as a mid hauler because it started out as one.


Perceptions are interesting. HKG to SYD is definitely considered mid-range by Australians. For my last trip, that was the short, easy leg, before 15.5 hours HKG-BOS.

ADL hated the A333 that servcied it pre-Covid, especially once other markets in Australia were getting A359 and A35K. From Oct 2019, SYD was seeing 14x773, 6x359 and 1x333 per week. Although it was a Saturday servcie, I'd expect people avoided the A333.

For medium range services, A359 seems the best part of a broader fleet plan. WIth 46 773 parked in ASP, who knows what the plan and fleet requirements will be post-Covid.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:57 am

Kent350787 wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
HK to Sydney is at least nine hours, it’s really far. You’re talking about San Fran to London. It just looks mid haul because there’s nothing in between, and we think of the A330 as a mid hauler because it started out as one.


Perceptions are interesting. HKG to SYD is definitely considered mid-range by Australians. For my last trip, that was the short, easy leg, before 15.5 hours HKG-BOS.

ADL hated the A333 that servcied it pre-Covid, especially once other markets in Australia were getting A359 and A35K. From Oct 2019, SYD was seeing 14x773, 6x359 and 1x333 per week. Although it was a Saturday servcie, I'd expect people avoided the A333.

For medium range services, A359 seems the best part of a broader fleet plan. WIth 46 773 parked in ASP, who knows what the plan and fleet requirements will be post-Covid.


Was the long haul A333 that bad? Or was it just the A350 was very good? ADL never got anything else so what do you mean, it was considered regional compared to SYD/MEL though all Australian routes had the long haul product the last few years.

What aircraft was on the 4th SYD flight most recently? 35K? The 77W made sense into Australia where capacity was required leaving the A359:35K fleets for longer routes.

Weather CX eventually order 78J or regional 359 will be interesting.
 
hoons90
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:29 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
Was the long haul A333 that bad?


I flew in J on the long haul configured CX A333 and it was not bad at all, apart from the footrest being slightly narrower compared to the 77W. Not an experience I'd describe as "bad" by any means.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:44 am

hoons90 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
Was the long haul A333 that bad?


I flew in J on the long haul configured CX A333 and it was not bad at all, apart from the footrest being slightly narrower compared to the 77W. Not an experience I'd describe as "bad" by any means.


I have to admit I haven't travelled on the A333, only 350 and 773, but all reviews of the 333 I've seen compare a little negativel ywith rhe long haul products. PE on the 773 I've found disappoiniing, especially back-to-back with the 350.

One flight daily into SYD was A350 since October last year, apart from an A333 on Saturdays. All other flights were 773. Currently the flights are 35K plus 773 for cargo - 35K seems daily, but 773 is intermittent
 
VRHNM
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:08 am

I don't think the long haul configured A333 are 'bad' by any means. I'm guessing there is some confusion over the regionally configured and long haul configured frames. The regionally configured ones never (as far as I've seen) operate on Oceania routes. They are (were?) mostly limited to East/Southeast Asian routes and only very very occasionally to South Asia.

To the normal traveller I doubt they would notice significant differences between the long haul J product on the A333 vs B77W. W is basically identical to the 77W seats, and Y could be even better with the introduction of 10Y on the 777s.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:18 am

VRHNM wrote:
I don't think the long haul configured A333 are 'bad' by any means. I'm guessing there is some confusion over the regionally configured and long haul configured frames. The regionally configured ones never (as far as I've seen) operate on Oceania routes. They are (were?) mostly limited to East/Southeast Asian routes and only very very occasionally to South Asia.

To the normal traveller I doubt they would notice significant differences between the long haul J product on the A333 vs B77W. W is basically identical to the 77W seats, and Y could be even better with the introduction of 10Y on the 777s.


How many regional A333 configurations are there at CX? They used to go to PER/BNE/CNS until maybe 5-6 years ago, though ADL was previously via MEL so got a long haul one.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:12 am

Kent350787 wrote:
ADL hated the A333 that servcied it pre-Covid, especially once other markets in Australia were getting A359 and A35K. From Oct 2019, SYD was seeing 14x773, 6x359 and 1x333 per week. Although it was a Saturday servcie, I'd expect people avoided the A333.
.

Pretty sure pre-Covid CX serves SYD 28x weekly on pax services, with 14x on 77W, 7x A359 and 7x on A333 (if memory serves it's CX162/1)

Michael
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1942
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:13 am

zkojq wrote:
China Southern has been flying them to AKL from just up the road in CAN for much of the last ten years. No idea what payload restrictions they face (if any).

Not much as they are A332s compared with CX's A333s. Having said that the 242t A333 pretty much negleged any payload restrictions that might exist on older A333s.

Michael
 
B-HOP
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:13 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
ADL hated the A333 that servcied it pre-Covid, especially once other markets in Australia were getting A359 and A35K. From Oct 2019, SYD was seeing 14x773, 6x359 and 1x333 per week. Although it was a Saturday servcie, I'd expect people avoided the A333.
.

Pretty sure pre-Covid CX serves SYD 28x weekly on pax services, with 14x on 77W, 7x A359 and 7x on A333 (if memory serves it's CX162/1)

Michael


CX already cut frequencies in Oct 2019 due to protest last year
 
VRHNM
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:41 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
VRHNM wrote:
I don't think the long haul configured A333 are 'bad' by any means. I'm guessing there is some confusion over the regionally configured and long haul configured frames. The regionally configured ones never (as far as I've seen) operate on Oceania routes. They are (were?) mostly limited to East/Southeast Asian routes and only very very occasionally to South Asia.

To the normal traveller I doubt they would notice significant differences between the long haul J product on the A333 vs B77W. W is basically identical to the 77W seats, and Y could be even better with the introduction of 10Y on the 777s.


How many regional A333 configurations are there at CX? They used to go to PER/BNE/CNS until maybe 5-6 years ago, though ADL was previously via MEL so got a long haul one.


Regionally configured A333 at CX around 2016-2019 were:
B-HLD HLF HLH HLM HLN HLO HLT HLU HLV (Total of ~9 IIRC)

As for the Australian services that supposedly were operated by regional frames- I'm not sure about anything pre-2015. However, I am quite certain that these 9 regional aircraft would not have been purposed to serve Australian destinations regularly. They do not have crew rests and are not fit for the route.

Long haul configured A333 in the same period were:
B-HLP HLQ HLR HLS HLW
B-LAC LAD LAE LAF LAG LAH LAI LAJ LAK LAL LAM LAN LAO LAP LAQ LAX LAZ
B-LBA LBB LBC LBJ
(Total of ~26)

Some of these frames were not configured with premium economy though most were. The frames fitted with premium economy served Australia while those without usually went to South Asia.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:45 pm

zeke wrote:
zkojq wrote:
China Southern has been flying them to AKL from just up the road in CAN for much of the last ten years. No idea what payload restrictions they face (if any).


That’s an A332, CX operate an A333.


Mostly A332s but they've sent A333s at various times too, in-between the 787-8s, 787-9s and 77Ws.

 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:47 pm

zkojq wrote:
zeke wrote:
zkojq wrote:
China Southern has been flying them to AKL from just up the road in CAN for much of the last ten years. No idea what payload restrictions they face (if any).


That’s an A332, CX operate an A333.


Mostly A332s but they've sent A333s at various times too, in-between the 787-8s, 787-9s and 77Ws.



The newer A333s are quite capable. Hainan sent them to AKL from SXZ.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:15 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
The newer A333s are quite capable.


Indeed.

ZK-NBT wrote:
Hainan sent them to AKL from SXZ.


I'd completely forgotten that they used to fly here! That was a once-a-fortnight service, wasn't it, or was that the one from CKG?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 8038
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:55 pm

zkojq wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
The newer A333s are quite capable.


Indeed.

ZK-NBT wrote:
Hainan sent them to AKL from SXZ.


I'd completely forgotten that they used to fly here! That was a once-a-fortnight service, wasn't it, or was that the one from CKG?


Hainan was 2 weekly I think? CKG was Tianjin airlines wasn’t it? Possibly fortnightly?
 
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zkojq
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Re: Cathay Pacific A330 replacement

Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:33 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkojq wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
The newer A333s are quite capable.


Indeed.

ZK-NBT wrote:
Hainan sent them to AKL from SXZ.


I'd completely forgotten that they used to fly here! That was a once-a-fortnight service, wasn't it, or was that the one from CKG?


Hainan was 2 weekly I think? CKG was Tianjin airlines wasn’t it? Possibly fortnightly?


To be quite honest with you I'd forgotten about Tianjin Airlines too. But what you said does sound right.

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