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mke717spotter
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Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:17 pm

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN29V2QO

"The Biden administration is “actively looking” at expanding mandatory COVID-19 testing to travelers on U.S. domestic flights, a senior Centers for Disease Control and Prevention official said on Tuesday.

Last week, President Joe Biden directed U.S. agencies to make recommendations to “impose additional public health measures for domestic travel” and to consider new requirements for people crossing land borders. Reuters reported Friday that administration officials said that could include requiring negative COVID-19 tests before flying domestically.

On Tuesday, new CDC rules took effect requiring nearly all international air travelers aged 2 and older to present a negative coronavirus test taken within three calendar days of travel or proof of COVID-19 recovery to enter the United States.

In discussions with airline officials, the CDC has said it is considering requiring domestic testing, too. Some airline officials worry such requirements could curtail already weak demand for air travel."


This sounds like it would be a nightmare. I just booked a long weekend in Fort Lauderdale for the end of February. Under these rules I'd likely have to go get tested twice in the span of a few days - right before I leave and then again once I get down there. False positives and costs of the tests are other things to consider. We already have the mask rules and with all the talk about how "masks work" I think this is overkill, especially when the disease itself has a survival rate of 99%. Not to mention that I will have already gotten both of my vaccine doses by the time of my flight (new Polish Government restrictions, for example, state vaccinated individuals are exempt from quarantine upon entry into Poland).
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Cubsrule
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:50 pm

I'm not sure this is yet newsworthy. Of course the administration should consider this, just like the administration should consider myriad other measures. Consideration =/= implementation, and the administration has been pretty clear that it wants a science-based approach to mitigation measures. That requires considering lots of options.
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davidjohnson6
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:15 pm

Is this for domestic flights, or just flights between different states ?
Can the Feds require a negative test on flights within a single state, between Dallas and Houston for example ?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:30 pm

There’s a lot of shade thrown on the PCR test as a screening tool, as opposed to diagnostic tool. On Jan 20th (!) WHO was the latest bit of pessimism. Bayes theorem and all that.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:22 am

This is a bit to far, and I'd love to see the business case.

People are still going to travel, they will just go by car.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:17 am

mke717spotter wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-travel/u-s-actively-looking-at-mandating-covid-19-testing-for-domestic-air-travel-idUSKBN29V2QO

"The Biden administration is “actively looking” at expanding mandatory COVID-19 testing to travelers on U.S. domestic flights, a senior Centers for Disease Control and Prevention official said on Tuesday.

Last week, President Joe Biden directed U.S. agencies to make recommendations to “impose additional public health measures for domestic travel” and to consider new requirements for people crossing land borders. Reuters reported Friday that administration officials said that could include requiring negative COVID-19 tests before flying domestically.

On Tuesday, new CDC rules took effect requiring nearly all international air travelers aged 2 and older to present a negative coronavirus test taken within three calendar days of travel or proof of COVID-19 recovery to enter the United States.

In discussions with airline officials, the CDC has said it is considering requiring domestic testing, too. Some airline officials worry such requirements could curtail already weak demand for air travel."


This sounds like it would be a nightmare. I just booked a long weekend in Fort Lauderdale for the end of February. Under these rules I'd likely have to go get tested twice in the span of a few days - right before I leave and then again once I get down there. False positives and costs of the tests are other things to consider. We already have the mask rules and with all the talk about how "masks work" I think this is overkill, especially when the disease itself has a survival rate of 99%. Not to mention that I will have already gotten both of my vaccine doses by the time of my flight (new Polish Government restrictions, for example, state vaccinated individuals are exempt from quarantine upon entry into Poland).


The airlines opened the door to this when they demanded for months that the Trump Admin mandate COVID tests for int'l travel, for reasons I still don't entirely understand. This could prove to have been a big mistake.

The cost of these tests and the hassle would really damage domestic travel, although I don't believe (maybe naively) tests will be required domestically.

If this was going to happen it should have happened way before now, not when millions are getting vaccinated.

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Is this for domestic flights, or just flights between different states ?
Can the Feds require a negative test on flights within a single state, between Dallas and Houston for example ?


My assumption would be for all flights, although I don't know the legality of the federal government placing limits on travel within a state.
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UPlog
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:21 am

Should have already been done, but if it helps identify people carrying the virus and stops them from travelling good move.

We do it internationally, so why not domestically. Its clear air travel has contributed to the spread of the virus by crowding poeple into airports and the larger travel process.

Also not helping is the fact that many cannot understand what essential travel is, somehow equating it to taking a vacation in midst of a global health crisis.
I fly your boxes
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:38 am

You know.....I honestly thing if this goes forward its a bridge to far. Call me what you want, I'm neither left, right, red, blue, purple or whatever, but I tell you what I'm not, I'm not a baby. I don't need a nanny, I don't need a big intrusive government telling me what I can or can't do. Yes, I take COVID seriously, I wear a mask, I avoid gatherings of people that aren't family and friends that I trust to take things seriously etc, I believe in science. I don't want to put elderly or at-risk family at risk to exposure and take measures to prevent to do so.

However I do believe in the ability to assess my own risk profile.
International border closures are one thing, but limiting interstate travel by whatever mean or mode is ridiculous. Yes, I have been traveling some during this whole ordeal for business and leisure. I not ever felt unsafe traveling (only flown DL but I'm in DTW). Saying I need to take a covid test is ridiculous. At this point with where we are, its health theater. People are going to do what they are going to do. We are far to interconnected as a country to even attempt to limit interstate travel. The silly measures in place are window dressing to make politicians feel good and like they are doing something.

Flame away. Call it what you want. There are so many other risky things and byzantine measures on a state by state basis its silly.
Roll out and ramp up the vaccine distribute and stop with all these draconian big government restrictions.

Some people are going to find ways to find pleasure in whether that is traveling, going on vacation, or gathering with others. I've got neighbors having house parties every weekend, how is that any risker than my wife & I traveling somewhere by ourselves to get some sun on a beach?

Sorry, I look out for myself and my impact on others. I assess my own risk profile. I can't control other idiots and morons who don't take this seriously. Big government overreach isn't going to stop that either they will still find ways to do what they do.

At this point, 12 months into it, you aren't changing people's behavior or risk profile Roll-out and ramp-up the vaccination program. You aren't going to be effective at testing people traveling from IND-MCO this spring break and doing anything worthwhile.
 
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stl07
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:33 am

Meh, this is already happening for travel to many states already, all this is gonna do is add in some of the red states and CA that have held out from doing this. I don't see the issue.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
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stl07
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:34 am

Also, let the administration keep actively looking. I'll debate more once they actually implement the change
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:21 pm

PCR tests, says the WHO, are poor for screening, they’re designed to aid in diagnosis. The issue being prevalence in the population and false positives.

https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-202 ... rs-2020-05
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:23 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Is this for domestic flights, or just flights between different states ?
Can the Feds require a negative test on flights within a single state, between Dallas and Houston for example ?


Yes, because it is about air travel, which is federally regulated. They do not have the ability to ban travel within a state, but there are other options for travel than an airplane.
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chonetsao
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:12 pm

I strongly support test and trace for international travel, however I do not agree with the possible test for domestic flight. The reason is that there is a massive rollout of vaccination programme. IMHO, countries with massive vaccine programmes should close its boarder for a short while to safeguard the effectiveness of vaccine from the mutations overseas, but open up domestic travel without further restrictions. It is better to shift the effort on interstates travel check ups to the boarder controls, so that once international travel opens up there are enough resources to deal with it.
 
bennett123
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:16 pm

Not sure I follow why Test and Trace on domestic travel is different from Test and Trace on International travel.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:56 am

UPlog wrote:
Should have already been done, but if it helps identify people carrying the virus and stops them from travelling good move.

We do it internationally, so why not domestically. Its clear air travel has contributed to the spread of the virus by crowding poeple into airports and the larger travel process.

Also not helping is the fact that many cannot understand what essential travel is, somehow equating it to taking a vacation in midst of a global health crisis.


Mandating COVID testing for domestic flights is foolish and will be a financial disaster to the airlines and their staff. It will paralyze small business, mine included, by adding an extra layer of time and cost to keeping my business operating. As a spouse of a health care provider, discretionary travel is an “essential” part of maintaining someone’s mental health. In fact many mental health professionals encourage environment changes for patients suffering from depression. You or our government are no more qualified to say what travel is “essential” than I. And the second we give up our free ability to move around our country to politicians, then we’ve given up one of the most cherished freedoms we own. Wearing a mask, social distancing, sanitizing are proven, effective measures against COVID and I fully support them. The above, in conjunction with airlines emphasis on aircraft cleanliness have shown to be sufficient to keep domestic air travel safe. If you are afraid to fly, don’t. If you are worried about going out in public, don’t. There are services available to ensure that you have groceries, medicines and a myriad of supplies delivered to your door. I have to travel for business and I choose to exercise my freedom and travel for pleasure. As I said, I support wearing a mask and social distancing. But that is as far as my responsibility to anyone goes. My belief is domestic travel will remain test free because it is vital for many people.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:23 am

bennett123 wrote:
Not sure I follow why Test and Trace on domestic travel is different from Test and Trace on International travel.


Because it’s cumbersome and costly to the traveler. Tests aren’t free or readily available at many domestic airports. My ability to jump on flights to support my own business, and in turn my employees, is what has kept me treading water and paying salaries for the last year. I’m amazed at how many make such cavalier statements about travel while having the appearance of not understanding how integral it is to our economy. I would guess most who advocate for tighter domestic travel restrictions have the luxury of a high middle class or above earning that has continued through out this pandemic. If we are going to worry about lives affected by a COVID infection, shouldn’t we also worry about those lives that will be affected negatively by even more restrictions?
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:21 am

Then they also need to be "actively looking" at payroll support for the airline industry for another 2 years.
This is insane. The *only* thing the Feds need to be worried about is VACCINE distribution.
That's it. That is the mandate they have.
PNW-based private pilot and engineer. #fatpnw
 
bennett123
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:35 am

You could argue that Test and Trace is also cumbersome and costly for international travel.
 
Tack
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:49 am

bennett123 wrote:
You could argue that Test and Trace is also cumbersome and costly for international travel.


It is exactly that, however with many countries already limiting entry, international travel on the spur of the moment isn’t possible now, so testing is inconvenient but doable. Many if not all gateway airports have some form of on site rapid testing available, easing the burden of getting a test. Most domestic airports have no such luxury. Currently not only is domestic travel available immediately, for many domestic businesses it needs to remain as such. I also agree that vaccine roll out is key. We were promised 100 million vaccines in 100 days. That is being walked back. Just another Politico who wasn’t truthful.
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:02 am

Not surprisingly, the lobbying group Airlines for America is already pushing back on the idea. It should be noted that the same group also supported required testing for travelers entering the US in exchange for rescinding current entry restrictions on travelers from Europe, the UK, and Brazil.

https://www.airlines.org/news/a4a-joins ... very-team/

"Given the strong scientific evidence that the risk of COVID-19 transmission onboard an aircraft is very low, we believe that a testing requirement for domestic air travel is unwarranted. They may have less access to testing facilities, which could cause further job loss and economic harm to the most devastated sectors of the economy, who will need air service to take part in recovery. Therefore, the costs and consequences of a testing requirement for domestic air travel would far outweigh any potential benefits."
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:19 pm

'Given the strong scientific evidence that the risk of COVID-19 transmission onboard an aircraft is very low' presumably they see no reason to test passengers on international flights either.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:42 pm

Not sure I follow why Test and Trace on domestic travel is different from Test and Trace on International travel.


Its a matter of scale. With relatively little international travel going on, at least compared to pre-pandemic levels, testing those relatively few international travelers is relatively simple and straightforward. Well, its burdensome but do-able. It can be handled, especially since most international reservations aren't spur of the moment decisions. The passenger has time to prepare, to get tested, to perhaps make alternate arrangements, and so on.

Now, let's look at domestic travel. Can you imagine testing every passenger that an airline like Southwest moves on a daily basis? How would the logistics of that work? What if a passenger bought nonrefundable tickets or hotel rooms only to be done in by a false positive? Anyone who has been following Hawaii's testing theatrics knows horror stories like these. Its simply unworkable in those massively huge numbers, trying to get test results back quickly and efficiently. The airline industry is already suffering; this would wreck what's left.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:57 am

bennett123 wrote:
'Given the strong scientific evidence that the risk of COVID-19 transmission onboard an aircraft is very low' presumably they see no reason to test passengers on international flights either.


This and this.... if we all say we are being driven by Science then this should not happen.

I will just say that this could be viewed as a way to force more folks to stay at home. I guess one could look at this as the federal way to have a national lockdown but not really call it that. Just saying.
It will effectively kill travel for many and make it financially limited to the few individuals/families/etc that have not been effected by this pandemic.

My hearts go out to airline employees if they force this.
We would be more closely following countries like Australia & New Zealand.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:52 am

Midwestindy wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Is this for domestic flights, or just flights between different states ?
Can the Feds require a negative test on flights within a single state, between Dallas and Houston for example ?


My assumption would be for all flights, although I don't know the legality of the federal government placing limits on travel within a state.

How many intra-state flights are there proportionally as compared to state-to-state? Hawaii, California, Texas, New York maybe; other states are going to be much less probable.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:44 am

ordbosewr wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
'Given the strong scientific evidence that the risk of COVID-19 transmission onboard an aircraft is very low' presumably they see no reason to test passengers on international flights either.


This and this.... if we all say we are being driven by Science then this should not happen.

I will just say that this could be viewed as a way to force more folks to stay at home. I guess one could look at this as the federal way to have a national lockdown but not really call it that. Just saying.
It will effectively kill travel for many and make it financially limited to the few individuals/families/etc that have not been effected by this pandemic.

My hearts go out to airline employees if they force this.
We would be more closely following countries like Australia & New Zealand.

If we were driven by science, schools would be open and they wouldn’t be spraying everything down with alcohol everywhere any more. But instead we are all driven by fear, power, and money instead.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Tue Feb 09, 2021 5:36 pm

enilria wrote:
ordbosewr wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
'Given the strong scientific evidence that the risk of COVID-19 transmission onboard an aircraft is very low' presumably they see no reason to test passengers on international flights either.


This and this.... if we all say we are being driven by Science then this should not happen.

I will just say that this could be viewed as a way to force more folks to stay at home. I guess one could look at this as the federal way to have a national lockdown but not really call it that. Just saying.
It will effectively kill travel for many and make it financially limited to the few individuals/families/etc that have not been effected by this pandemic.

My hearts go out to airline employees if they force this.
We would be more closely following countries like Australia & New Zealand.

If we were driven by science, schools would be open and they wouldn’t be spraying everything down with alcohol everywhere any more. But instead we are all driven by fear, power, and money instead.

Agree! I haven’t been “living in fear” since last April.
“Live Free Or Die” General John Stark
 
bennett123
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:30 pm

Does that mean that restrictions on international travel can be removed.

If not, why not.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:27 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Is this for domestic flights, or just flights between different states ?
Can the Feds require a negative test on flights within a single state, between Dallas and Houston for example ?


My assumption would be for all flights, although I don't know the legality of the federal government placing limits on travel within a state.

How many intra-state flights are there proportionally as compared to state-to-state? Hawaii, California, Texas, New York maybe; other states are going to be much less probable.


It doesn’t really matter whether it is 1 intra-state flight or a 1000, if you are instituting a law. And regardless it would get quite complicated to regulate if intra-state flights were excluded.

Either way there is likely a loophole where they could implement it, but from what I recall the federal gov’t doesn’t have the authority to regulate travel within a state, at least to the extent this potential policy would.

Also it doesn’t sound like this is very popular with members of Congress on both aisles, so I doubt it will happen.
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:10 pm

DL's Ed Bastian went on CNN today and said this is "a terrible idea"
https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/202 ... -aviation/
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:24 pm

UPlog wrote:
but if it helps identify people carrying the virus and stops them from travelling good move.

That's not anywhere near as easy to do, that as you might think.

Interstate travel is a "fundamental right" under American law, whereas international travel is not.

Congress has an enumerated constitutional authority to regulate [the channels and instrumentalities of] interstate commerce (airports are a channel, aircraft are instruments), but that authority is NOT absolute-- namely, it's subjected to "strict scrutiny" by the courts if it violates a fundamental right, which again, interstate travel is.

Laws/regulations subjected to strict scrutiny, are extremely difficult to uphold.

That's why we haven't seen an interestate lockdown yet, and likely won't ever. Even if the states come together and try to do it in the absence of federal law, it still wouldn't likely hold against a legal challenge.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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mke717spotter
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:01 pm

Looks like its still under consideration. I still have a feeling that this would lead to chaos, especially early on. I haven't had to provide a negative test result for a flight so I'm not sure how the process would work, but does this mean everyone would be forced to check-in at the counter at the airport? If so, I can foresee long lines. I've also heard of plenty of instances where people haven't gotten their test result back in time before their flight, and this could become more widespread if the testing facilities suddenly become overwhelmed.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/cdc-consid ... air-travel

"Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg hinted on Monday that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was considering whether to impose requiring negative COVID-19 tests for domestic airline flights, similar to what is now required for international flights.

Speaking during an interview with Axios’ Mike Allen in an episode that aired Sunday, Buttigieg said "There's an active conversation with the CDC right now."

Asked about Buttigieg's remarks, CDC chief Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Monday the agency was reviewing the proposal as a possible added safety measure to stem the spread of the virus."
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phatfarmlines
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:10 pm

I'm thinking this is a punishment for airlines for failing to follow CDC guidelines in social distancing during inflight. It seems the CDC is not satisfied with measures airlines have taken. Remember, many small business owners who are now facing hardships have complained to the government about exceptions for other industries in following guidelines.

Maybe consider some sort of compromise. Airlines that actively block seats (which I think is just DL at this point, and not even 100% with no middle seat to block on one side of the 717/220), perhaps can get a testing waiver, while everyone else has to test. I'm not saying this is ideal but spitballing here.

But why single out airlines? The likes of Greyhound and MegaBus don't seem to be included in this plan, and they do interstate travel.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:24 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
But why single out airlines? The likes of Greyhound and MegaBus don't seem to be included in this plan, and they do interstate travel.


Did Greyhound and MegaBus got billion dollars bailout like airlines did?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:35 pm

If you tell most people that they have to travel 1,000 miles by bus, or drive themselves, or stay at home.... then they will choose to stay at home. By making air travel difficult (and more expensive - PCR tests are not cheap), it will cut the number of people travelling long distances around the USA to very small numbers, while intra-state and inter-state travel still remains legally possible

It doesn't matter WHERE a person picks up the infection - whether on an aircraft, in the bag drop queue, at a cafe, in the meeting they have while on a business trip, etc.... - it matters only that by mixing with lots of different people, Covid can spread more easily. Cut the number of different people you interact with over a month, and you cut the infection rates
Short term this is bad news if you're an airline employee, but it will stop people dying until vaccinated
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:24 am

How about ramping up and getting everyone over the age of 70 vaccinated.
Instead of worrying about healthy 20-30-40-50 somethings and testing them while flying.

Mayor Pete and the CDC can go pound sand.
This and the stupid double mask idea.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:48 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
DL's Ed Bastian went on CNN today and said this is "a terrible idea"
https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/202 ... -aviation/

Strongly agree with him.
Next flights:
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March 20: Southwest Airlines WN5412, SLC-STL, Boeing 737-700
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Feb 11, 2021 11:08 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
It doesn't matter WHERE a person picks up the infection - whether on an aircraft, in the bag drop queue, at a cafe, in the meeting they have while on a business trip, etc.... - it matters only that by mixing with lots of different people, Covid can spread more easily. Cut the number of different people you interact with over a month, and you cut the infection rates
Short term this is bad news if you're an airline employee, but it will stop people dying until vaccinated


I think this has been laid out a quite a few times, but the link between COVID cases and air travel is minimal. Where the infections occur is in bars, restaurants, and gatherings in homes.

There is tons of data on this, if you want to clamp down on COVID spread you eliminate those activities, everything else is smoke in mirrors.

chonetsao wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
But why single out airlines? The likes of Greyhound and MegaBus don't seem to be included in this plan, and they do interstate travel.


Did Greyhound and MegaBus got billion dollars bailout like airlines did?


What does that have to do with whether they are forced to require testing. If WN, for example, refused grant money, would they not be forced to require testing?

phatfarmlines wrote:
I'm thinking this is a punishment for airlines for failing to follow CDC guidelines in social distancing during inflight. It seems the CDC is not satisfied with measures airlines have taken. Remember, many small business owners who are now facing hardships have complained to the government about exceptions for other industries in following guidelines.

Maybe consider some sort of compromise. Airlines that actively block seats (which I think is just DL at this point, and not even 100% with no middle seat to block on one side of the 717/220), perhaps can get a testing waiver, while everyone else has to test. I'm not saying this is ideal but spitballing here.


The government's own study showed airplane travel was safe though?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2702S7
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phatfarmlines
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:08 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
I'm thinking this is a punishment for airlines for failing to follow CDC guidelines in social distancing during inflight. It seems the CDC is not satisfied with measures airlines have taken. Remember, many small business owners who are now facing hardships have complained to the government about exceptions for other industries in following guidelines.

Maybe consider some sort of compromise. Airlines that actively block seats (which I think is just DL at this point, and not even 100% with no middle seat to block on one side of the 717/220), perhaps can get a testing waiver, while everyone else has to test. I'm not saying this is ideal but spitballing here.


The government's own study showed airplane travel was safe though?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2702S7


Touché. Then in that case, we have two competing government agencies with separate scientific studies and separate conclusions. In a Biden administration, I'm going to bet the CDC will overrule the DOD study (and for the Biden administration's sake, get all of the agencies aligned!).

ADDENDUM: That study was published in October 2020, which would have been under Secretary Esper's watch, and at a time where Trump did not value CDC recommendations. Given we have a new Secretary of Defense appointee by the Biden Administration, I would expect alignment from the Biden administration as to what they would discern COVID risk from air travel.
 
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bluestreak
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:25 pm

I think this would be devastating for the industry. In my case, it would also restrict my work requirements. For instance, I was planning for a day off work yesterday, but my boss called the previous night, and needed me in Tampa that morning. I was able to book an early flight, then the evening found me in Charlotte. I was able to book a flight home last night. And now, I have just discovered that I have to be in Jacksonville tomorrow morning, and will end up in Little Rock by days end. I have then booked a flight home the following morning.

So I would not be able to conduct business if the mandate goes into effect. I would not be able to take these trips, because I usually don't know when I am required to fly 72 hours in advance. If I were tested, I may not be required to fly during the next 72 hours. Also, the amount of time it has taken friends of mine to obtain results from the tests are ranging between 3-5 days!

I think it would be a huge mistake, and airlines, their employees, and people who need to make reservations right away for business travel would suffer as a result.
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TravisFlyer
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:31 pm

I'm not sure why they haven't mandated this earlier.
 
Tack
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:45 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If you tell most people that they have to travel 1,000 miles by bus, or drive themselves, or stay at home.... then they will choose to stay at home. By making air travel difficult (and more expensive - PCR tests are not cheap), it will cut the number of people travelling long distances around the USA to very small numbers, while intra-state and inter-state travel still remains legally possible

It doesn't matter WHERE a person picks up the infection - whether on an aircraft, in the bag drop queue, at a cafe, in the meeting they have while on a business trip, etc.... - it matters only that by mixing with lots of different people, Covid can spread more easily. Cut the number of different people you interact with over a month, and you cut the infection rates
Short term this is bad news if you're an airline employee, but it will stop people dying until vaccinated


Lol, why stop with a PCR test for air travel? Need to go to the grocery? Make it mandatory. Going to put gas in your car? Mandatory. Take the family out to eat? Mandatory. Gotta make a Costco run? yup, better have your PCR test. It amazes me at how many people think you can just shut down a country. As I said before, those who make shut down statements suffer from a steady high middle to upper class income that has continued, uninterrupted since the start of the pandemic. I remember this administration promising 100 million vaccines in 100 days. Instead of stupid knee jerk reactions that will destroy an industry, why not just try to deliver on your promise?
 
Tack
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:06 am

It seems that this topic, at least for a bit, is done being discussed by the Administration. Somebody in the White House is thinking straight.

https://news.trust.org/item/20210211213823-pf76d
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:24 pm

Tack wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
If you tell most people that they have to travel 1,000 miles by bus, or drive themselves, or stay at home.... then they will choose to stay at home. By making air travel difficult (and more expensive - PCR tests are not cheap), it will cut the number of people travelling long distances around the USA to very small numbers, while intra-state and inter-state travel still remains legally possible

It doesn't matter WHERE a person picks up the infection - whether on an aircraft, in the bag drop queue, at a cafe, in the meeting they have while on a business trip, etc.... - it matters only that by mixing with lots of different people, Covid can spread more easily. Cut the number of different people you interact with over a month, and you cut the infection rates
Short term this is bad news if you're an airline employee, but it will stop people dying until vaccinated


Lol, why stop with a PCR test for air travel? Need to go to the grocery? Make it mandatory. Going to put gas in your car? Mandatory. Take the family out to eat? Mandatory. Gotta make a Costco run? yup, better have your PCR test. It amazes me at how many people think you can just shut down a country. As I said before, those who make shut down statements suffer from a steady high middle to upper class income that has continued, uninterrupted since the start of the pandemic. I remember this administration promising 100 million vaccines in 100 days. Instead of stupid knee jerk reactions that will destroy an industry, why not just try to deliver on your promise?


:thumbsup:

If you are going to institute restrictions, at least make them consistent.

phatfarmlines wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
I'm thinking this is a punishment for airlines for failing to follow CDC guidelines in social distancing during inflight. It seems the CDC is not satisfied with measures airlines have taken. Remember, many small business owners who are now facing hardships have complained to the government about exceptions for other industries in following guidelines.

Maybe consider some sort of compromise. Airlines that actively block seats (which I think is just DL at this point, and not even 100% with no middle seat to block on one side of the 717/220), perhaps can get a testing waiver, while everyone else has to test. I'm not saying this is ideal but spitballing here.


The government's own study showed airplane travel was safe though?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2702S7


Touché. Then in that case, we have two competing government agencies with separate scientific studies and separate conclusions. In a Biden administration, I'm going to bet the CDC will overrule the DOD study (and for the Biden administration's sake, get all of the agencies aligned!).

ADDENDUM: That study was published in October 2020, which would have been under Secretary Esper's watch, and at a time where Trump did not value CDC recommendations. Given we have a new Secretary of Defense appointee by the Biden Administration, I would expect alignment from the Biden administration as to what they would discern COVID risk from air travel.


Except there aren't two different studies, the CDC has not conducted any studies on covid spread on airplanes.... And regardless not even including the mask mandates, the CDC itself acknowledges it is difficult for airborne disease to spread onboard aircraft due to air filtration systems.

Also I'm not sure how Secretary Esper factors into this.... it was a non-partisan study sponsored by the United States Transportation Command & The Defense Advanced Research Project Agency to examine whether it was safe to transport troops onboard commercial airliners.

Read it for yourself if you don't believe me:
https://www.ustranscom.mil/cmd/docs/TRA ... 0Final.pdf
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Cubsrule
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:27 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

The government's own study showed airplane travel was safe though?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2702S7


Touché. Then in that case, we have two competing government agencies with separate scientific studies and separate conclusions. In a Biden administration, I'm going to bet the CDC will overrule the DOD study (and for the Biden administration's sake, get all of the agencies aligned!).

ADDENDUM: That study was published in October 2020, which would have been under Secretary Esper's watch, and at a time where Trump did not value CDC recommendations. Given we have a new Secretary of Defense appointee by the Biden Administration, I would expect alignment from the Biden administration as to what they would discern COVID risk from air travel.


Except there aren't two different studies, the CDC has not conducted any studies on covid spread on airplanes.... And regardless not even including the mask mandates, the CDC itself acknowledges it is difficult for airborne disease to spread onboard aircraft due to air filtration systems.

Also I'm not sure how Secretary Esper factors into this.... it was a non-partisan study sponsored by the United States Transportation Command & The Defense Advanced Research Project Agency to examine whether it was safe to transport troops onboard commercial airliners.

Read it for yourself if you don't believe me:
https://www.ustranscom.mil/cmd/docs/TRA ... 0Final.pdf


Here's the problem: from an aerosol dynamics perspective, it makes a plane with the packs running (and many carriers are running packs any time passengers are aboard) would not be a place where spread happens. But it's virtually impossible to fly without being exposed to at least some big, tightly-packed crowds on the ground. Those of us who don't check bags and use Precheck can avoid many of the crowds, but these days we do not comprise the majority of the traveler mix.
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:07 am

Tack wrote:
It seems that this topic, at least for a bit, is done being discussed by the Administration.

If they're not going to do it now (which they shouldn't) then there's no point in doing it later on. We've passed the peak of the pandemic, the vaccines are being rolled out and should be downhill from here. As the weeks and months go by they should be repealing the existing restrictions instead of putting tougher new ones in place!
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:29 am

mke717spotter wrote:
Tack wrote:
It seems that this topic, at least for a bit, is done being discussed by the Administration.

If they're not going to do it now (which they shouldn't) then there's no point in doing it later on. We've passed the peak of the pandemic, the vaccines are being rolled out and should be downhill from here. As the weeks and months go by they should be repealing the existing restrictions instead of putting tougher new ones in place!


Tougher restrictions, quicker recovery.
 
continental004
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:21 am

Tack wrote:
It seems that this topic, at least for a bit, is done being discussed by the Administration. Somebody in the White House is thinking straight.

https://news.trust.org/item/20210211213823-pf76d


Good. Mandatory testing for domestic flights is an assault on our freedom of movement.
 
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PITingres
Posts: 1342
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:31 pm

continental004 wrote:
Tack wrote:
It seems that this topic, at least for a bit, is done being discussed by the Administration. Somebody in the White House is thinking straight.

https://news.trust.org/item/20210211213823-pf76d


Good. Mandatory testing for domestic flights is an assault on our freedom of movement.


Horse puckey. Freedom of movement is not an absolute right, particularly when that movement may harm others. (There's no such thing as an absolute right, but that's a different discussion.)

The domestic testing idea died a deserved death mostly IMO because we don't have the rapid testing infrastructure in place to do it effectively. It would have been covid theater not unlike the TSA's security theater. It was definitely worth looking into - why not at least consider it - and was correctly rejected.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
Tack
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:01 pm

PITingres wrote:
continental004 wrote:
Tack wrote:
It seems that this topic, at least for a bit, is done being discussed by the Administration. Somebody in the White House is thinking straight.

https://news.trust.org/item/20210211213823-pf76d


Good. Mandatory testing for domestic flights is an assault on our freedom of movement.


Horse puckey. Freedom of movement is not an absolute right, particularly when that movement may harm others. (There's no such thing as an absolute right, but that's a different discussion.)

The domestic testing idea died a deserved death mostly IMO because we don't have the rapid testing infrastructure in place to do it effectively. It would have been covid theater not unlike the TSA's security theater. It was definitely worth looking into - why not at least consider it - and was correctly rejected.


While I agree with you on a few things, I have to ask: Have you continued to draw a salary over the last year? Have you had to travel or go into an office to earn it? Has your salary be reduced or your compensation been otherwise altered? The reason I ask, is because when you stated that free movement isn’t a right if it “harms others”. What is your definition of harm? Falling ill with COVID? Or is it more broad, in my case, not traveling for my business, I’d have to lay off staff. Force them into unemployment and possibly close my shops doors permanently. Does that meet your definition of harm? Because if it does, then my right to travel, sans the expense of round trip testing, while employing all the safety precautions we’ve been told to use should be a given. I’ve said up thread, it’s a problem when individuals don’t apply the same amount of concern to a workers financial health the same way they worry about a persons physical health. That’s a balance that needs to be maintained and includes the ability or right for people to fly, unrestricted by testing and the personal financial cost associated. Whether it’s to keep a business limping along or provide for a respite from stress by allowing a person a diversion via a holiday. The administration realized it wasn’t just the logistics but the cost to consumers and the airlines that makes this idea of domestic testing pre flight look foolish.
 
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Re: Biden administration "actively looking" at negative COVID test mandate for domestic flights

Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:14 pm

Trade-offs are an alien concept to many who believe in absolutes.

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