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AntonioMartin
Topic Author
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Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:43 am

I have a (to me) interesting topic to talk about and it is:
How about commercial flights between airports or heliports-for that matter-in the SAME metropolitan area??? Like for example, helicopter flights between, say Mesa airport and Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix on, say, American or Allegiant helicopters?

20 years after 9/11, with the wait at airports of at least two hours that can't be feasible right? Not unless one airport was in an otherwise inaccessible island on that metro area?

Also, how about some historical flights in the same metro area?

I know:
Fort Lauderdale and Miami had tons of flights between each other, even a Western Airlines DC-10 back in the day (a tag on from LAX IIRC)
JFK and LGA (I think in LGA's case) had Pan Am from the New York heliports
LAX had Los Angeles Airways helicopters from various heliports in downtown.
Late in the 80s, United had Boeing 727 or 737-not sure which one is right-from SFO to Oakland many times a day.....

Others?

Oh and slightly off topic but in the same vein, pre 9-11, I'd be interested in seeing commercial helicopters between Isla Grande and SJU in San Juan...both airports are in the same area, but Condado's more affluent tourists would surely enjoy a very quick send off from Isla Grande that would also give them a finishing, panoramic view of the area, would not they????
 
deltairlines
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:52 am

Continental used to fly from IAH to Ellington Field in Houston - at the end they were using ERJ-145s. It was popular amongst people at NASA for not having to drive all the way up to IAH; for those going for segments for elite status, fares were the same (from what I remember) as flying out of IAH but you got the extra 500 EQM/1 EQS each way, so it was an easy shortcut to making higher status levels.

As for me, in 2008, I took US Helicopter from JFK to Downtown Manhattan on a Sikorsky - I had an afternoon of doing nothing, I had the money, so I took the LIRR to JFK and paid walkup at the Delta counter in T3 for a ride on the chopper back to Manhattan. Got 750 MQMs out of it plus an amazing experience.
 
MDW22L31C
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:21 am

UAE had many EMB120 flights from SNA-LAX PSP-LAX ONT-LAX.

UA, NW and NC has 737 727 and dc9 flights ORD MKE back in the day.
 
drdisque
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:53 am

Many west coast commuter airlines flew from SNA to LAX until the 90s.

In 1981 an airline named Phillips Airlines flew a Piper several times daily on this ridiculous routing: Chicago-O'Hare to Valparaiso, IN to La Porte, IN to Michigan City, IN and then did the same thing in reverse (you'd think a circle route would've made a lot more sense as MCH was probably the most popular destination and they would've appreciated the flight being nonstop at least one direction).

In 1985 Crescent Helicopters flew from Chicago-Meigs to Chicago-Midway as well as Midway to O'Hare. CGX-MDW was blocked for 8 minutes while MDW-ORD was blocked for 12 minutes. They also flew Meigs to Gary, IN (blocked for 12 minutes).
Alliance Airlines flew once daily from Meigs to Kenosha, WI (blocked for 20 minutes).

Island Air had a Sunday-Only flight between White Plains and Newark (I assume the flight continued to Atlantic City-Bader, which was the airline's base).

Command and Brockway Air had a pretty thorough schedule between White Plains and Poughkeepsie which was a 20 minutes flight.

An airline named "Air Vectors" flew twice daily on weekdays from Newburgh to Poughkeepsie on a Piper, this was a 10 minute flight that connected to literally nothing at SWF as that was the only air service Newburgh had at the time and at POU the flights continued onto Binghampton. A handful of offline connections were available at POU, but if you really wanted to fly on the Colgan Air flight to IAD, you'd think someone would just drive to POU instead of booking an offline connection SWF-POU-IAD.

I feel like I'm just scratching the surface here. Why did so many of these seemingly pointless extremely short commuter routes that connected to nothing exist?

In the mid 80's Allegheny Commuter flew a Detroit-Battle Creek-Kalamazoo flight (Kalamazoo and Battle Creek are essentially adjacent to each other - AZO-BTL was blocked for 10 minutes gate to gate).

Lots of airlines flew TPA-SRQ and PIE-SRQ tags in the 70s and 80s.

In the Mid 80's Allegheny Commuter and Ransome flew PHL-TTN (blocked for 25 minutes presumably due to long taxi times at PHL)

In 1985 an airline named BAS flew Detroit City to Pontiac, MI - this was a tag to a flight that came from/continued to BKL and also connected to and from one of their DET-YNG flights.

In 1985 Jetstream International and Cumberland Airlines flew PIT-LBE - for some reason it was blocked for 30 minutes!

In 1985 there were 19 daily LAX-ONT flights on various airlines on equipment ranging from a Piper to a 727.

In 1985 there were 5 daily LAS-IFP flights on 2 airlines. They don't really appear to connect to anything. I guess you were supposed to offline connect in LAS.
 
Jet-lagged
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:56 am

In the early 1990s I had a business trip from New York to Los Angeles. For reasons I no longer remember my itinerary was such that I ended up my business on the eastern side of the huge LA Metro area. Rather than drive all the way across the metro in my rental car I figured out that I could ride a little puddle jumper from what I assume was Ontario into LAX. I believe I checked luggage at Ontario and didn't have to deal with it at LAX when I transferred to whatever jet took me back across the country to New York. By miles and probably by time the shortest trip I've ever taken.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:56 am

JetBlue ran flights between Long Beach and Burbank during the 2011 closure of the 405 freeway (aka Carmageddon) http://blog.jetblue.com/search/carmageddon/

V/F
 
USAirALB
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:17 am

US used to run BWI-DCA until the BWI hub was closed after 9/11.
 
dmurray
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:18 am

My first flight was from Montreal (YUL) to JFK In 1963. (That may have been before the name change to JFK.) I then flew a helicopter into Manhattan and then another to Laguardia (LGA) and then from there a flight to Williamsport, PA (where the Little League World Series is held). From there, I took a Greyhound to Lewisburg, PA, where Bucknell University is located and where I was graduated from in 1967.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:19 am

Continental had a dedicated DC-9-10 for Houstons Intercontinental to Hobby, the Proud Bird Express.

United San Francisco to Oakland by 727. That’s so short that since the BART extension, you can do that route today by subway train.

FedEx used to fly a 727 Memphis to New York JFK to New York LGA. That tag isn’t just within the city, it’s within a single borough (Queens).

Before the opening of the M25 London orbital motorway, driving Heathrow to Gatwick was an hours-long cross-country slog, so there was a helicopter option. Think it was a franchise that could bid for because I think there was a couple of different operators over the years. In its final years, which I remember as a kid, it was British Caledonian.
 
pa747sp
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:13 am

British Caledonian used to operate a helicopter service from LGW to LHR in the 80s. I used to get staff subload tickets on it for GBP5. Cheaper than public transport.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:46 am

G-LINK was the S61 that operated the LGW- LHR route. One way walk up fare was £8 iirc,
As others have mentioned, the M25 wasn’t complete at that stage, so the road route took a little while, approx 2-2.5 hours by the famous Green Line 727 coach.
B Cal helicopters always operated the route as far as I can remember, with other S-61’s subbed in when G-LINK was in need of a service. Service was eventually replaced by Jetlink coach service when the M25 full opened.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:56 am

Both Eastern and Air Florida ran DC-10's MIA-FLL, as well as other Aircraft MIA-PBI.
At one time, NW ran a DC-9-10 three times a day DTW-Pontiac for the Chrysler Glass Palace crowd.
Jackson, MI was an EAS station to DTW.
Both PanAm and TWA had NYC Helicopter Services at one time.
Golden West used to fly all over the LA Valley, Palmdale, SBA, SNA, etc: http://www.departedflights.com/GW042681.html
 
flymad
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:12 am

Back in the day, probably around 1982, flew EWR - JFK on New York Helicopters, to catch an SAA flight to JNB en route from Washington DC. My AA shuttle from IAD had been delayed and it was the only way to make the departure from JFK. Amazing experience!
 
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NCAD95
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:16 am

Detroit used to have commuter flights between DET and DTW back in the 1970s with a couple commuter airlines. Also not within the same city but relatively close and still considered the Southeast Michigan metro area commuter flights between Detroit and Pontiac, Ann Arbor, Birmingham and Port Huron.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:35 pm

Texas Air, then Continental flew IAH to HOU and back on a scheduled basis for a time.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:44 pm

Reason it wouldn't work now is cost of helicopter prohibitive of what return would be.
And the folks that could afford that added fee on their ticket would probably be flying a Gulfstream into Teterboro anyway.
I would have liked to try Air Midwest when they had MKC-MCI flights back in early 80s.
Closest I have come to this was SkyWest EM2 Fresno-Visalia,CA. May as well be same metro area lol.
 
RJNUT
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:04 pm

Air Midwest flew Metroliners between MKC (Downtown Kansas City ) to KCI back in the 80's, probably more of a positioning flight between their downtown operation and the KCI hub
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:05 pm

Didn't some of the airlines fly DCA-IAD to deal with the perimeter issue?
 
greg3322
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:07 pm

In the 1970s and 1980s, Los Angeles had several small airlines (Golden West, Cable Aire, Air Spur, to name a few) that would not only serve SNA-LAX, but also LGB-LAX, FUL-LAX (12 miles), CCB-LAX, BUR-LAX, and many other pairs. Golden West used Twin Otter's for the smaller airports and Air Spur has Westland 30 helicopters.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:59 pm

I flew LAX-ONT a lot in the 2001-2005 range. Don’t quote me on that end date. I liked it a lot as it saved a lot of sitting in traffic and that 47 mile flight gave you 500 frequent flyer miles back then.

The issue is that it really only works in 1) very heavy traffic cities, 2) where airports are geographically distanced, and 3) only if you have enough frequency to get very close to connections.

This makes LA the only real feasible market IF an airline has the appetite for the frequencies required.

Helicopter service is of course interesting. I had a boss who had his own helicopter and he’d take it down the airport but then fly private in Atlanta. There certainly could be a model there. The issue with that is pickup landing spots. You may not know this, but you can’t just plop a helicopter in a suburb anywhere there is a flat surface. So then your back to the issue of having to drive somewhere (likely another airport) and then helicoptering and then still having to go through security. But I could see a situation where if the financials worked doing a LZU-ATL helicopter service if some how you could get expedited through security.
 
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NCAD95
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:21 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
Didn't some of the airlines fly DCA-IAD to deal with the perimeter issue?


Yes Western did.
 
azstar
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:28 pm

In the late 60's Braniff Int'l flew a daily DC-6 (or DC-7) between Dallas Love Field and Ft. Worth Meacham Field.
 
2eng2efficient
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:21 pm

Wasn’t JetBlue flying LGB-LAX for a time during the I-405 shutdown?
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:26 pm



A couple of people have mentioned the Houston-area shuttles by Continental and Continental Express. I remember from an old coffee table book published in the 1980's (?) which featured a picture of an Emerald Air DC-9-10, which was the original "IAH Express" from Ellington Field (?). "Beat the lines at IAH" was their slogan, for the businessman who wanted some extra time before schlepping to the airport.

There are three pictures in the database of Emerald Air, but only one in its own sort-of logo.
 
26point2
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:27 pm

SFO Helicopters ran a SFO-Marin-OAK-SJC-SFO scheduled service with a fleet of Sikorsky S-61s. 1970s/1980s. $5 would get you a round trip seat for a joy ride around the Bay.
 
sadde
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:32 pm

Blade currently sells flights from Manhattan to JFK,EWR, LGA, and the hamptons.
 
ScottB
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:47 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Continental had a dedicated DC-9-10 for Houstons Intercontinental to Hobby, the Proud Bird Express.


I'm pretty sure it was the "Houston Proud Express." I flew that once.

I believe CO offered EWR-BDR for a time; that's technically within the same metro area.

If you want to talk about combined statistical areas, 9K's BOS-PVC and BOS-HYA stay within a single metro area.

Going way back, NE flew BOS-ORH. Expanding to the CSA, they also flew BOS-HYA and BOS-MHT.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:07 pm

Allegheny Commuter operated by Ransome Airlines flew PHL-PNE (Northeast Philadelphia Airport), Ransome's home base, in the 1970s. It was scheduled for 10 minutes gate to gate!
 
Austin787
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:13 pm

In 1999, when the new AUS airport opened, airlines flew repositioning flights from Robert Mueller airport to ABIA. Flight times averaged 8 seconds.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:30 pm

There are quite a few examples from the period before deregulation, when airlines used to fly a lot of milk runs. Back then, you'd see flights like Piedmont's ORF-PHF or INT-GSO.
 
IAHFLYR
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:11 pm

Austin787 wrote:
In 1999, when the new AUS airport opened, airlines flew repositioning flights from Robert Mueller airport to ABIA. Flight times averaged 8 seconds.


Come on, really, so they flew 6 NM is eight seconds? :shakehead:

What were they flying supersonic jets that broke the sound barrier?
 
PlymSpotter
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:00 am

I think we can deduce that the poster meant to say 8 minutes.

A few carriers have flown MNL-CRK in the Philippines, mostly with the Let 410 IIRC. I looked at flying it back in 2015, but regrettably couldn't tie it up.

Going back a couple of years Blink were selling intra-London Airport positioning flights on the Cessna Mustang for £250 all in - not per seat, for the full aircraft. Again, regrettably, I looked at this so many times but never lined everything up to take a flight.

For a short time (1969-1970 IIRC) Westward Airways flew LHR-LGW 6-8 times a day with the BN Islander. Years ago I spoke with one of the pilots - there were apparently some interesting close calls with wake turbulence in the sky and and jet blast on the ground.
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:20 am

I believe in the last couple of years UA flew between SFO and STS. In the 80's NW flew between TPA and SRQ. NW also flew MKE to MSN.
 
hoons90
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:33 am

If you include the Golden Horseshoe, I guess you can count FlyGTA's Toronto/Billy Bishop-St. Catharines service.
 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:00 am

hoons90 wrote:
FlyGTA's .

Off topic but everytime I see that name I wonder if Michael or Frankie fly as pilots at that airline..also do they serve Los Santos or San Andreas??? :P
 
EAARbrat
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:03 pm

Not exactly metro NY or BOS areas but I was on a ferry/reposition from BDL to JFK on an Eastern L1011. Went on a layover with Mom (senior flight attendant) over July 4th in 1987 to SJU. Flight down was direct but the return the next evening was SJU - BOS and BOS - BDL. Sid alot of cockpit time on that trip. Night landing into SJU, wtched as she was just a tiny blip on the horizon to full view. I also got experience my first CATIII landing into JFK as once we got halfway over the Long Island Sound it was pea soup. Remember watching the Captain and Copilot wrangling over their chart books as the captains were not up to date. We were also really behind schedule as we got a few hour hold going to BDL due to another flight hitting a deer on landing. Last thing I remember just before push back in BDL was being in the econ galley elevator and a cockroach scurried across the floor. Eeeeks LOL
 
IAHFLYR
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:43 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
I think we can deduce that the poster meant to say 8 minutes.


Ya think? :o Every now and then one has to simply test the waters!

Back on topic.....The IAH-EFD flights were great. I had a meeting early one morning at EFD with an IAH-RSW early afternoon flight. I decided to pad the FF account and booked the EFD-IAH-RSW and back RSW-IAH-EFD. Really worked out great until I got back and had to make the 55 minute drive up north going home. But it all worked out as that was part of getting my OnePass account to Platinum. :checkmark:
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:18 pm

I don't know if this truly counts as "same metro area", but SEAir used to operate Dornier flights between Manila and Clark airports (Clark being MNL's main alternate and diversion airport).
 
Chemist
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:06 am

In the 1960s, LA Airways flew Sikorskys between LAX, BUR, and Disneyland. I flew to BUR from LAX, and that was my first ride on a helicopter.
 
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PPVLC
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:58 pm

Rio-Sul and Oceanair operated flights between CGH and GRU in the late 1990s early 2000s.
 
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HowardDGA
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:44 am

drdisque wrote:
...
Island Air had a Sunday-Only flight between White Plains and Newark (I assume the flight continued to Atlantic City-Bader, which was the airline's base).
...
Command and Brockway Air had a pretty thorough schedule between White Plains and Poughkeepsie which was a 20 minutes flight.
...
An airline named "Air Vectors" flew twice daily on weekdays from Newburgh to Poughkeepsie on a Piper, this was a 10 minute flight that connected to literally nothing at SWF as that was the only air service Newburgh had at the time and at POU the flights continued onto Binghampton. A handful of offline connections were available at POU, but if you really wanted to fly on the Colgan Air flight to IAD, you'd think someone would just drive to POU instead of booking an offline connection SWF-POU-IAD.
...
I feel like I'm just scratching the surface here. Why did so many of these seemingly pointless extremely short commuter routes that connected to nothing exist?


White Plains, Poughkeepsie, and Endicott (Binghampton) were all big IBM towns at the time. Not pointless at all.
 
departedflights
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:28 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
Didn't some of the airlines fly DCA-IAD to deal with the perimeter issue?


Someone else already mentioned that Western did this.

However, in addition to Western, American and Braniff # 2 also did this before the perimeter was extended to include DFW.

There may have been others, as well.
 
alohashirts
Posts: 163
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:24 am

Not sure if this counts but sometimes DL will charter empty planes from SLC to PVU to pick up BYU’s football team. The distance is about 45 miles between the two airports. Provo and Salt Lake are part of the Salt Lake City CSA area.
 
twolz2rn
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:55 pm

Back in Comair's peak they used to have DAY-CVG on CRJs. Northwest used to operate a turbo prop from TOL-DTW. I also once flew LEX-CVG on a MD-88. Only a 15 minute flight
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:26 pm

Ansett sometimes ran extra flights SYD-OOL-BNE in peak holiday time. Took this once with an A320- the OOL-BNE sector took 20min from door close to open.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:48 am

With all of the regional ops on behalf of the majors, why don't the airlines revisit this concept?

I know it won't happen but I'd love for UA to begin DEN-APA!
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:50 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the flights that Shawnee Airlines did briefly from MCO to the STOL airstrip at Disney World back when it first opened in the 1970s.

There was also an airline named Air South (one of several to have that name) that flew from Homestead to FLL and MIA.
 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
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Re: Flights between metro area airports

Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:27 pm

Hmmnn..there was an intra-San Juan flight once, SJU to Isla Grande on Vieques Air Link......http://www.departedflights.com/SJU75intro.html interesting...

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