Earlier this week, Latam announced its decision to retire its entire A350 fleet, the equivalent of 11 aircraft. The question is what will happen to these planes? Since these aircraft are young and very efficient, they should have no trouble finding a buyer. Nevertheless, the current context makes this situation rather complex.

How about Delta take over all of them?
Another possibility is QR

Under U.S. Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings, once the court accepts LATAM's motion to terminate leases or return aircraft to lenders, LATAM is done. It's up to the aircraft owners to decide. If there are multiple owners it makes an 'all of them' deal much harder to achieve.

Whoever pays the most. AFAIK, 9 of the 11 belong to Aercap. They could end up pretty much anywhere, in an entire batch or split across 11 different operators. The market for long haul aircraft is global.

When these questions get asked, why do people only speculate us3 as possibilities?

The A350s go and the 767s and 777s live on in the LATAM Brasil fleet. Since the merger Latam Brasil has replaced both the A330s and now A350s

VSMUT wrote:

Whoever pays the most. AFAIK, 9 of the 11 belong to Aercap. They could end up pretty much anywhere, in an entire batch or split across 11 different operators. The market for long haul aircraft is global.

Right, yet airlines try to avoid lots of different seating configurations in their fleet and reconfiguration can be expensive, so there is some incentive for batch deals.

In this era of over production, these may sit for quite a while.

There are far more sellers (including Airbus itself) than there are buyers.

Revelation wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Whoever pays the most. AFAIK, 9 of the 11 belong to Aercap. They could end up pretty much anywhere, in an entire batch or split across 11 different operators. The market for long haul aircraft is global.

Right, yet airlines try to avoid lots of different seating configurations in their fleet and reconfiguration can be expensive, so there is some incentive for batch deals.

In this era of over production, these may sit for quite a while.

There are far more sellers (including Airbus itself) than there are buyers.

You are exaggerating. There are plenty of airlines with many different seating configurations. 4 of these flew for Qatar on a sublease until just recently (who have 2 different configs on their own A350-900 fleet). SAS had a single ex-LAN A340 that they kept for ages without changing the interior. Ethiopian has 2 different seating configs on its A350 and 787 fleets. There were the ex-Singapore 777s floating around all over the place as temporary RR 787 interim replacements.

That they will be parked for a while is a given, but suggesting here and now that they will all go to one airline/Delta or that seat configuration will have anything to do with it is ridiculous right now. They could go literally anywhere, from that Pragusa startup to existing carriers to something that doesn't even exist yet or even all 3.

I’m not optimistic that these planes will quickly find new homes. The six former Hong Kong Airlines A350s that were retired/stored/returned to lessors back in 2019 still remain in storage.

Cmon AC Rouge

VSMUT wrote:

Revelation wrote:

VSMUT wrote:

Whoever pays the most. AFAIK, 9 of the 11 belong to Aercap. They could end up pretty much anywhere, in an entire batch or split across 11 different operators. The market for long haul aircraft is global.

Right, yet airlines try to avoid lots of different seating configurations in their fleet and reconfiguration can be expensive, so there is some incentive for batch deals.

In this era of over production, these may sit for quite a while.

There are far more sellers (including Airbus itself) than there are buyers.

You are exaggerating. There are plenty of airlines with many different seating configurations. 4 of these flew for Qatar on a sublease until just recently (who have 2 different configs on their own A350-900 fleet). SAS had a single ex-LAN A340 that they kept for ages without changing the interior. Ethiopian has 2 different seating configs on its A350 and 787 fleets. There were the ex-Singapore 777s floating around all over the place as temporary RR 787 interim replacements.

That they will be parked for a while is a given, but suggesting here and now that they will all go to one airline/Delta or that seat configuration will have anything to do with it is ridiculous right now. They could go literally anywhere, from that Pragusa startup to existing carriers to something that doesn't even exist yet or even all 3.

It goes behind seating configuration. Airplanes have a significant number of options. It costs quite a bit of money to reconfigure interiors (for example delta has a mid cabin galley but Latam doesn’t) as well as other standardize flight deck configurations. It’s a lot cheaper to bundle reconfiguration costs, especially when it comes to interiors, weights, avionics and flight deck configuration. Assembling a fleet from used airplanes from multiple different airlines costs a lot of money. A group purchase can save millions.

How about BA? They already have A350 commonality thanks to the A350-1000, Could the 900s start replacing the 772s?

The first airline that came to mind was Turkish Airlines, as they are already a A350 operator and have quite some experience with aquiriring second hand wide bodies (A330-200s and -300s in different cabin configurations and engine types, and even three ex-Kenya Airways 777-300ERs). They can use them to replace some older A330s and/or 777s.

But as Weatherwatcher1 already pointed out there are also some brand (or barely) new A350s waiting for new customers since 2019, so it remains to be seen how long it will take for these birds to find new homes.

CWL757 wrote:

How about BA? They already have A350 commonality thanks to the A350-1000, Could the 900s start replacing the 772s?

I don’t see it personally. Not for BA no. Iberia maybe
Most of the 772s will be up gauge replacements. Given what we’ve already seen. 3 772s were replaced with 4 brand new 77Ws and 4 77Es replaced with 4 779s

IAG an option perhaps, for IB, BA and Aer Lingus, IB and BA already have the type in their fleets, BA the -1000 and Aer Lingus had previously expected to receive the A350 but instead switched orders with Iberia for their A330 orders due to the reduced capital costs of the A330 over the A350 and the minimal fuel burn differences over the shorter average stage lengths vs IB. Perhaps with the capital costs now so low, now could be the time for IAG to acquire some cheap frames and have EI make the switch to A350.

how about a reincarnation of LATAM

tvh wrote:

how about a reincarnation of LATAM

LATAM isn’t going away. They are just removing the A350s from their fleet in favor of the 767/787/77W.

transaeroyyz wrote:

Cmon AC Rouge

Ha ha no chance.

This would be an excellent opportunity for JAL to replace their remaining 77Es and some older 767s.

Portuguese and/or Maltese HiFly

KL would be nice....
http://www.flight-simulator-world.org/u ... xwb-klm-3/

FLJ wrote:

The first airline that came to mind was Turkish Airlines, as they are already a A350 operator and have quite some experience with aquiriring second hand wide bodies (A330-200s and -300s in different cabin configurations and engine types, and even three ex-Kenya Airways 777-300ERs). They can use them to replace some older A330s and/or 777s.

But as Weatherwatcher1 already pointed out there are also some brand (or barely) new A350s waiting for new customers since 2019, so it remains to be seen how long it will take for these birds to find new homes.

Turkish did get A330s from TAM in 2014 when LAN moved the 767s to TAM shortly after the merger. However Turkish has plenty of 787s and A350s on order.

Or maybe the new Eastern Europe startup»»»

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1458495

What about OS? There's talk about them getting new widebodies, some speculate that they may go for A350s...

eidvm wrote:

IAG an option perhaps, for IB, BA and Aer Lingus, IB and BA already have the type in their fleets, BA the -1000 and Aer Lingus had previously expected to receive the A350 but instead switched orders with Iberia for their A330 orders due to the reduced capital costs of the A330 over the A350 and the minimal fuel burn differences over the shorter average stage lengths vs IB. Perhaps with the capital costs now so low, now could be the time for IAG to acquire some cheap frames and have EI make the switch to A350.

Would be nice to replace Aer Lingus's A330's. Doubt it will happen.

zkojq wrote:

This would be an excellent opportunity for JAL to replace their remaining 77Es and some older 767s.

Replacing a 767 with an a359 would be insane even without a pandemic. It's a perfect replacement to the 77E, but far too large to replace a 767.

UWPAviation wrote:

eidvm wrote:

IAG an option perhaps, for IB, BA and Aer Lingus, IB and BA already have the type in their fleets, BA the -1000 and Aer Lingus had previously expected to receive the A350 but instead switched orders with Iberia for their A330 orders due to the reduced capital costs of the A330 over the A350 and the minimal fuel burn differences over the shorter average stage lengths vs IB. Perhaps with the capital costs now so low, now could be the time for IAG to acquire some cheap frames and have EI make the switch to A350.

Would be nice to replace Aer Lingus's A330's. Doubt it will happen.

They still have 5 on order after shifting 4 to IB.

UWPAviation wrote:

eidvm wrote:

IAG an option perhaps, for IB, BA and Aer Lingus, IB and BA already have the type in their fleets, BA the -1000 and Aer Lingus had previously expected to receive the A350 but instead switched orders with Iberia for their A330 orders due to the reduced capital costs of the A330 over the A350 and the minimal fuel burn differences over the shorter average stage lengths vs IB. Perhaps with the capital costs now so low, now could be the time for IAG to acquire some cheap frames and have EI make the switch to A350.

Would be nice to replace Aer Lingus's A330's. Doubt it will happen.

EI already elected to not take part of their a350 order (it went to IB). I don't see them taking the rest.

EI will continue with their a330s for the foreseeable future and grow with the a321XLR in my opinion.

Didn’t LH want some more A350s quickly?

zkojq wrote:

This would be an excellent opportunity for JAL to replace their remaining 77Es and some older 767s.

My thought as well. Maybe LHG in a few years time to modernize and harmonize its fleet. If they are really cheap AFKL might be interested. AF can take them an then transfer its B789 to KL, which in return can let go of its A330s. This would lead to a more harmonized and modern fleet. But this is just the crazy idea of an armchair CEO.

FlyingHonu001 wrote:

KL would be nice....
http://www.flight-simulator-world.org/u ... xwb-klm-3/

In late 2019 already, KLM decided to pass their A350 order for seven units on to AFR and to focus on the B787. Simplification within their longhaul-fleet was the main argument at that time. So, I don’t see any reason why they would change their mind now.

Capricorn wrote:

zkojq wrote:

This would be an excellent opportunity for JAL to replace their remaining 77Es and some older 767s.

My thought as well. Maybe LHG in a few years time to modernize and harmonize its fleet. If they are really cheap AFKL might be interested. AF can take them an then transfer its B789 to KL, which in return can let go of its A330s. This would lead to a more harmonized and modern fleet. But this is just the crazy idea of an armchair CEO.

Air France-KLM CEO Benjamin Smith, speaking at Air France-KLM’s investor day presentation, stated Air France will retain its current fleet of Boeing 787-9 aircraft as it provides “good leverage” in negotiations with Airbus for the replacement of A330-200s and earlier model 777s and allows it to “continue to be able to select either Airbus or Boeing”. He said it gives the carrier “a lot of flexibility” as it can later decide whether to transfer the aircraft to KLM Royal Dutch Airlines or put them out on the market if it decides to exit them from the Air France fleet.

AF likely will keep them for the near to mid term future. Until they decide on a smaller widebody (a339 vs 787) for the rest of the fleet, they likely will have them around.

Antarius wrote:

zkojq wrote:

This would be an excellent opportunity for JAL to replace their remaining 77Es and some older 767s.

Replacing a 767 with an a359 would be insane even without a pandemic. It's a perfect replacement to the 77E, but far too large to replace a 767.

You might or might not be aware that JAL has a substantial fleet of 787-8s and many 787-9s too. 767-300 flying gets replaced with a 787-8, some 787-8 flying gets upgauged to a 787-9, some 787-9 flying gets upgauged to an A350-900 and so on. Plenty of scope to optimize capacity between those fleet types.

Would make for a very efficient fleet.

Polot wrote:

tvh wrote:

how about a reincarnation of LATAM

LATAM isn’t going away. They are just removing the A350s from their fleet in favor of the 767/787/77W.

yes, I know that, but after a good reorganisation and the end of the corrona crisis, they may be in good shape again and have a need for them again. I better lease price would also help.

tvh wrote:

Polot wrote:

tvh wrote:

how about a reincarnation of LATAM

LATAM isn’t going away. They are just removing the A350s from their fleet in favor of the 767/787/77W.

yes, I know that, but after a good reorganisation and the end of the corrona crisis, they may be in good shape again and have a need for them again. I better lease price would also help.

LATAM barely needed them to begin with-it was a legacy TAM decision. That is why they had a bunch leased out to QR, were going to sell 4 existing frames to DL, and had DL take over 10 new orders (all pre-Covid). There is really nothing that the A350s can do for LATAM that the 789s operated by the group can’t already do- it’s not like LATAM Brazil was pushing the planes to their max capabilities, especially since they have a handful of early lower MTOW frames.

chunhimlai wrote:

How about Delta take over all of them?
Another possibility is QR

Other is possibly AY.