Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
maps4ltd
Topic Author
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Puerto Rican and Dominican flights departing at 2-3am

Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:55 pm

I've noticed that many flights from Puerto Rico (SJU, BQN, PSE) and the Dominican Republic (particularly STI and SDQ) depart at very early hours of the morning (typically 1-3am) to go back to the mainland US. It appears to be one of the only places in the US where this is the case. Why does this happen? And what conditions prevent 2-3am departures from being economical elsewhere?
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2839
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Puerto Rican and Dominican flights departing at 2-3am

Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:16 am

It's to help make the connections in the morning I think. For example, I think you are from the midwest, and many of the Midwest flights from Florida leave in the morning, and a 3 am departure from PR will connect you perfectly on time for one these flights. San Juan to STL on NK is a perfect example of this.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1897
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Puerto Rican and Dominican flights departing at 2-3am

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:44 am

maps4ltd wrote:
I've noticed that many flights from Puerto Rico (SJU, BQN, PSE) and the Dominican Republic (particularly STI and SDQ) depart at very early hours of the morning (typically 1-3am) to go back to the mainland US. It appears to be one of the only places in the US where this is the case. Why does this happen? And what conditions prevent 2-3am departures from being economical elsewhere?


This discussion assumes the "pre-COVID" period.

It's mainly aircraft utilization targeted at VFR (visiting friends and relatives) traffic. If you look at old timetables pre-deregulation, namely the 70's, you'll see instances of flights to/from SJU operating during the traditional "red-eye" times.

During that time, there were also routes within the U.S. where airlines marketed the post-midnight early morning flights as "night coach", and offered discounts for the service.

B6 did operate early morning NY-FLL flights during the early 2000's when they had a near-shuttle high-frequency service, and before Delta's Song operation started. It made for fun discussions on this forum as to whether B6 should operate widebodies. The memories.....

But circling back to your question, those post-midnight early morning flights to those destinations didn't kick back up again until B6 started service to the Caribbean. Then you saw on/off services by the legacies during that time channel, and NK/F9 also adding its own post-midnight early morning flights as it expanded in the Caribbean.

You won't see those flights operating during those time channels these days within the U.S., outside of the traditional West Coast to East Coast red-eye. WN for instance, doesn't operate red-eyes and can command enough traffic with its fares. If an airline wants to operate in the post-midnight early morning hours, they're going to have to sacrifice major yields for loads, and even then the loads won't be guaranteed.

stl07 wrote:
It's to help make the connections in the morning I think. For example, I think you are from the midwest, and many of the Midwest flights from Florida leave in the morning, and a 3 am departure from PR will connect you perfectly on time for one these flights. San Juan to STL on NK is a perfect example of this.


A synergistic effect of said utilization.
 
User avatar
BWIAirport
Posts: 1016
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:29 pm

Re: Puerto Rican and Dominican flights departing at 2-3am

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:02 pm

Surprised airlines don't do this from SJD; DL could easily do SJD 23:30 - 05:30 ATL and connect onward; similar with UA to IAD.
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL, FFT | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B38M B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A20N A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
jplatts
Posts: 4532
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Puerto Rican and Dominican flights departing at 2-3am

Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:35 pm

A few AS nonstop flights between SEA and ANC depart between 3:00 AM Alaska Time and 5:00 AM Alaska Time, but flights departing from ANC between 3:00 AM and 5:00 AM Alaska Time allow passengers to more easily connect to the Eastern U.S. from Alaska through SEA. ANC is also 1 hour behind SEA.
 
maps4ltd
Topic Author
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Puerto Rican and Dominican flights departing at 2-3am

Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:58 pm

jplatts wrote:
A few AS nonstop flights between SEA and ANC depart between 3:00 AM Alaska Time and 5:00 AM Alaska Time, but flights departing from ANC between 3:00 AM and 5:00 AM Alaska Time allow passengers to more easily connect to the Eastern U.S. from Alaska through SEA. ANC is also 1 hour behind SEA.

Yeah, I've noticed the SEA-ANC corridor has this as well.
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
maps4ltd
Topic Author
Posts: 926
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Puerto Rican and Dominican flights departing at 2-3am

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:00 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
I've noticed that many flights from Puerto Rico (SJU, BQN, PSE) and the Dominican Republic (particularly STI and SDQ) depart at very early hours of the morning (typically 1-3am) to go back to the mainland US. It appears to be one of the only places in the US where this is the case. Why does this happen? And what conditions prevent 2-3am departures from being economical elsewhere?


This discussion assumes the "pre-COVID" period.

It's mainly aircraft utilization targeted at VFR (visiting friends and relatives) traffic. If you look at old timetables pre-deregulation, namely the 70's, you'll see instances of flights to/from SJU operating during the traditional "red-eye" times.

During that time, there were also routes within the U.S. where airlines marketed the post-midnight early morning flights as "night coach", and offered discounts for the service.

B6 did operate early morning NY-FLL flights during the early 2000's when they had a near-shuttle high-frequency service, and before Delta's Song operation started. It made for fun discussions on this forum as to whether B6 should operate widebodies. The memories.....

But circling back to your question, those post-midnight early morning flights to those destinations didn't kick back up again until B6 started service to the Caribbean. Then you saw on/off services by the legacies during that time channel, and NK/F9 also adding its own post-midnight early morning flights as it expanded in the Caribbean.

You won't see those flights operating during those time channels these days within the U.S., outside of the traditional West Coast to East Coast red-eye. WN for instance, doesn't operate red-eyes and can command enough traffic with its fares. If an airline wants to operate in the post-midnight early morning hours, they're going to have to sacrifice major yields for loads, and even then the loads won't be guaranteed.

stl07 wrote:
It's to help make the connections in the morning I think. For example, I think you are from the midwest, and many of the Midwest flights from Florida leave in the morning, and a 3 am departure from PR will connect you perfectly on time for one these flights. San Juan to STL on NK is a perfect example of this.


A synergistic effect of said utilization.

Very good answer. Thank you.

Does the VFR part explain why these departures don't really occur from more "vacation-oriented" airports? You don't see 3am departures out of PUJ or POP.
All opinions expressed herein are mine and do not represent the views of Cape Air
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1897
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Puerto Rican and Dominican flights departing at 2-3am

Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:27 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Does the VFR part explain why these departures don't really occur from more "vacation-oriented" airports? You don't see 3am departures out of PUJ or POP.


Yes, outside of STI or SDQ as the core DR population centers, the rest of the DR commericial airports (PUJ, POP, LRM, AZS) won't have such service as they are tailored for the leisure/all-inclusive crowd.
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Puerto Rican and Dominican flights departing at 2-3am

Sat May 01, 2021 8:17 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
jplatts wrote:
A few AS nonstop flights between SEA and ANC depart between 3:00 AM Alaska Time and 5:00 AM Alaska Time, but flights departing from ANC between 3:00 AM and 5:00 AM Alaska Time allow passengers to more easily connect to the Eastern U.S. from Alaska through SEA. ANC is also 1 hour behind SEA.

Yeah, I've noticed the SEA-ANC corridor has this as well.


In the summertime would this also have anything to do with it being light most of the time?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos